Torts Reform: Coaching Discussion Thread III

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Jarmo knows his job would be on the line if Jalonen would fail, it's just what it is.

Don't worry, I doubt Jarmo would risk his job over something like that.

I don’t think Jalonen is the next head coach of the Jackets, but Jarmo’s going to get fired anyway if whoever the next coach is fails.

Jarmos job is on the line regardless of when next coach fails .. he might as well bring In whom he feels can best do the job

Edit: just to add this is the same basic premise as my reply, that Jarmo’s job is being ‘risked’ in any case.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Yeah this is not something I'm willing to say is poor coaching by Torts. He's never shown he's unwilling to have 1:1 meetings with guys.

He’s literally confirmed this in interviews with Mcgelliott .. Major Major referenced yesterday as well so I know he’s heard Torts say this as well.

The announcement today , he met with Laine , and will now start meeting 1 on 1 is a change of direction , hence the public acknowledgment

 

[6zag]

I don’t think Jalonen is the next head coach of the Jackets, but Jarmo’s going to get fired anyway if whoever the next coach is fails.



Edit: just to add this is the same basic premise as my reply, that Jarmo’s job is being ‘risked’ in any case.

Fair point, fair point..

Either way, would be great if we could get the new coach (whoever it'll be) to start already, since there's no hope of playoffs we should start preparing for the future rather than try to salvage this dumpster fire.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Fair point, fair point..

Either way, would be great if we could get the new coach (whoever it'll be) to start already, since there's no hope of playoffs we should start preparing for the future rather than try to salvage this dumpster fire.

I think the FO is content to let the dumpster fire smolder.

 

[NotWendell]

I think the FO is content to let the dumpster fire smolder.

Better to do that then get a new coach bump, still miss the playoffs and screw up our draft position. Let Torts finish the year and retire with dignity.

 

[NotWendell]

I think you two could both be right because you're talking about different things. Torts has had 1-on-1 meetings when there was a problem. He probably hasn't had REGULAR 1-on-1 meetings with each of the players.

 

[Forepar]

I think you two could both be right because you're talking about different things. Torts has had 1-on-1 meetings when there was a problem. He probably hasn't had REGULAR 1-on-1 meetings with each of the players.

Especially not since pandemic - every meeting is via zoom, etc... That's been part of the problem (and is for every team, but especially those with multiple new players in the fold).

 

[NotWendell]

Especially not since pandemic - every meeting is via zoom, etc... That's been part of the problem (and is for every team, but especially those with multiple new players in the fold).

Great observation!

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Jalonen has coached some North American hockey, he got bronze from Vancouver 2010 Olympics. Anyway, the chances of that happening is minimal as I see it. NHL is about rotating the same old coaches, Jarmo knows his job would be on the line if Jalonen would fail, it's just what it is.

Jarmo's job is on the line regardless, you only have so many chances at getting the team where you want it to be and that includes coach hires. Every time you fire a coach your clock as a GM is winding down, hiring a guy like Jalonen shouldn't make any difference, atleast he's a winning coach on multiple levels unlike some of the abject failures that keep rotating in the NHL merry-go-round.

 

[Finner]

Fire the coaching stuff. Over 20games left and that is great time for new coach to bring his game in and get to know with team. I dont understand we are keeping Torts and stuff.

 

[Garbox]

I just started to think today that bringing Lehtonen in is one more guy that would suit Jalonen well. He's all about making the guys play as a team on the ice (Torts seems to preach that too, but it's not showing on the ice) and creating breakouts with short passes. That requires quick decision making and understanding the flow, but also trust on your teammates. Recognizing the situations is the key for players in his gamebook. All this would be somewhat impossible to achieve during the season (and would have been with the covid "preseason").

Jalonen has had success with underdog teams, but of course the environment would be new to him.

 

[Stephen]

I've followed the Tampa Bay Lightning as my second team for many years now starting with the Vincent Lecavalier/John Tortorella era. Seems like there's a recurring pattern of Tortorella going out of his way to bend a young star level player to the team concept. That's part and parcel what every good coaches job description is and you can't take the success Torts had away.

But, and a big but. At some point, you have to consider the harsh disciplinary/player alienating tactics also means you don't get the good things out of these skill guys who are down on their confidence levels and maybe creating a difficult work environment. It also hurts the organization if they ultimately look for the exit. (Even Lecavalier wanted out of Tampa in the early days). At some point you do have to consider if trying to turn Patrik Laine into Ryan Callahan isn't the most necessary pet project.

 

[stevo61]

I've followed the Tampa Bay Lightning as my second team for many years now starting with the Vincent Lecavalier/John Tortorella era. Seems like there's a recurring pattern of Tortorella going out of his way to bend a young star level player to the team concept. That's part and parcel what every good coaches job description is and you can't take the success Torts had away.

But, and a big but. At some point, you have to consider the harsh disciplinary/player alienating tactics also means you don't get the good things out of these skill guys who are down on their confidence levels and maybe creating a difficult work environment. It also hurts the organization if they ultimately look for the exit. (Even Lecavalier wanted out of Tampa in the early days). At some point you do have to consider if trying to turn Patrik Laine into Ryan Callahan isn't the most necessary pet project.

He coaches so hard on players weaknesses that it hurts their strengths. A coach should use a players strentghs and look to build up the weakness vs neutering a player and only worried about his weakness which Torts does unless you play with a physical edge. Players like Dubois got a pass but Bjorkstrand, Milano, Laine get punished

 

[NotWendell]

As I check the standings this morning, we are 5 points behind 4th place Chicago with the same number of games played. We aren't as far out of it as it feels like we are.

 

[NotWendell]

Yes, we'll probably get throttled in the first round, but still.

 

[MoeBartoli]

He coaches so hard on players weaknesses that it hurts their strengths. A coach should use a players strentghs and look to build up the weakness vs neutering a player and only worried about his weakness which Torts does unless you play with a physical edge. Players like Dubois got a pass but Bjorkstrand, Milano, Laine get punished

Last year I listened to Hitch talking about this very issue - building on strengths rather than hammering on weaknesses. Hitch said that he started his coaching career focused on weaknesses, but received some of the best advice from another coach (can’t remember the name) who emphasized a coach should build on a skilled players strengths, especially with younger players, and work on the weaknesses along the way. It’s that approach he adopted and a philosophy I endorse. (And one I tried to follow in business though it was often tempting to over focus on weaknesses).

 

[Monstershockey]

Thought this was interesting. This is just one guys point of view. Take it for what its worth. Not safe for work language.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

He coaches so hard on players weaknesses that it hurts their strengths. A coach should use a players strentghs and look to build up the weakness vs neutering a player and only worried about his weakness which Torts does unless you play with a physical edge. Players like Dubois got a pass but Bjorkstrand, Milano, Laine get punished

You mean how he’s working so hard on improving Robinson’s passing or Gavrikov’s skating, to the exclusion of letting them do the things they do well?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The Hartford Wolf Pack coaching staff just beat the Flyers 9-0. Let’s hire them to replace Torts.

 

[DarkandStormy]

From Porty's mailbag (emphasis mine):

How does Jarmo get guys to sign extensions without having a clear idea who will be coaching this team next year and beyond? Put another way, why would anyone want to commit long term until they know who the coach will be? — John M.

lol

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Maybe I’m reading too much into this quote but

“I told you before this trip started that you’re going to find out a lot about who we are as individuals, as a team,” Tortorella said. “I saw some terrific things out of certain people. I saw some things that worried me terribly about the team. It has nothing to do with Xs and Os.
“I’m not going to name names. You guys watched the game, you guys write your stories. It’s a very important trip for this organization — not only now, as far as what type of gumption we have, but also in projecting what your team is going to be like in the future.”

He says “we” and “our” about the team regarding this year, and immediately shifts to “your” when talking about the future.

 

[Halberdier]

Torts has lost this team.

Material is not there, that's true. But it's like every other game and the team isn't even trying. And that's 100% on Tortorella, I am afraid.

Prime example is the 1st half of the Detroit match, but it's only one of a few similar examples this season.

Then all in the sudden they play very well, like most of the games against Carolina.

 

[EspenK]

Torts has lost this team.

Material is not there, that's true. But it's like every other game and the team isn't even trying. And that's 100% on Tortorella, I am afraid.

Prime example is the 1st half of the Detroit match, but it's only one of a few similar examples this season.

Then all in the sudden they play very well, like most of the games against Carolina.

He lost them and then they were found...

 

[majormajor]

Maybe I’m reading too much into this quote but



He says “we” and “our” about the team regarding this year, and immediately shifts to “your” when talking about the future.

Yes, definitely reading too much into it. That's normal pronoun switching. I do it with regard to the Blue Jackets and I don't even work for the team!

 

[Jyri]

30mins against Detroit 5 shots on goal. Our material can't be that bad. Coach must go!