Proposal: Toronto - Winnipeg

[tbcwpg]

Don't see the need to include the "Lowry component".

That being said, as a Leaf fan, the concept of Nylander <-> Scheifele makes a fair bit of sense. I get the idea that Scheif needs to move into a "stronger" room where maybe he isn't the #1 or #2 guy on the team. Columbus replaces some of the dynamic offensive ability that they lost in Laine.

There is the challenge of WPG's centre depth post deal... not sure Kerfoot is good enough to be a difference maker in that regard, but he's always been a really solid even strength producer.

I don't think a C has to be part of the return but the return should fill one of the big gaps which is RHD or C. The Jets could try Perfetti at C next season, he played pretty well at wing last year before his injury shut him down but he's projected to play wing at this level.

I think some Jets fans are underrating Nylander and his value as a trade piece but two wingers for two Cs is a disastrous return for the Jets.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't think a C has to be part of the return but the return should fill one of the big gaps which is RHD or C. The Jets could try Perfetti at C next season, he played pretty well at wing last year before his injury shut him down but he's projected to play wing at this level.

I think some Jets fans are underrating Nylander and his value as a trade piece but two wingers for two Cs is a disastrous return for the Jets.

I didn't see really many people saying Nylander had significantly less value then Mark.......more its crazy talk trading 1C & 3C for a magic bean winger and a winger........just terrible fit for the Jets and helps the Leafs b/c its much easier to play a C at wing, then it is a winger at C. OP offer is an easy no from the Jets b/c of these reasons, not saying Leaf pieces don't have value.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't think a C has to be part of the return but the return should fill one of the big gaps which is RHD or C. The Jets could try Perfetti at C next season, he played pretty well at wing last year before his injury shut him down but he's projected to play wing at this level.

I think some Jets fans are underrating Nylander and his value as a trade piece but two wingers for two Cs is a disastrous return for the Jets.

Yeah I'm not advocating for the "2Cs for 2Ws" concept...

I'm advocating for a Nylander-Scheifele swap...my sense is that Scheifele has more "value", but not necessarily a ton more; and that value may be diminished by the fact that there seems to be locker room problem with the Jets (for whom he is an integral leader).

 

[BlueBaron]

I like Perfetti. He and a good goalie prospect/and or picks might make more sense for us. Save some cap, semi replace Willy, fortify position of greatest need.

Not sure if anyone but me would want this though or what the Jets goalie situation is like.

 

[10Ducky10]

Before I get ripped to shreds for this, I figured I’d take a stab at it. Since WPG is most likely moving Scheifele I think this could be a good return for them.

To Toronto:
C - Mark Scheifele
C - Adam Lowry

To Winnipeg:
RW - William Nylander
LW - Nick Robertson
3rd Round Pick in 2022

Leafs get a great C and move that dud JT to wing and a 4th line shutdown C, and the Jets get a nice scoring winger to build around with Dubois, Connor and Ehlers as well as a good prospect attached. Flame away babyyyyy.

I counter with AM for Lowry and our 2022 1st...

 

[Weezeric]

Lol at Leafs fans talking about players not getting it done in the playoffs, Especially with a guy who led his team to the conference finals with 14 goals in 17 games…

 

[Nylanderthal]

Take out Lowry and you’re closer

Nylander ++ for schief? Lol

 

[Weezeric]

I like Perfetti. He and a good goalie prospect/and or picks might make more sense for us. Save some cap, semi replace Willy, fortify position of greatest need.

Not sure if anyone but me would want this though or what the Jets goalie situation is like.

You make it sound like the Jets want Nylander. They do not…

 

[10Ducky10]

Lol at Leafs fans talking about players not getting it done in the playoffs, Especially with a guy who led his team to the conference finals with 14 goals in 17 games…

While setting a record for most goals on the road without playing in the finals.

 

[Guffman]

So, the problem with this thread is that the OP bungled it up by adding too many pieces and devastating Winnipeg's centre depth. Obviously, that doesn't make sense. A more interesting discussion would be Nylander for Schiefele and quibbling about what the add is.

Before discussing what a fair trade would be, could the Jets even use Nylander?

If we look at the Jets Top 6, we have two stellar LW (Connor, Ehlers). On the RW, we really only have Wheeler (who is 35). The Jets used Stastny largely as LW (and flipped Ehlers to RW). Stastny had a very good year - the Jets want him back, and Stastny can play centre.

Cole Perfetti only has 18 NHL games under his belt. Eventually, he is expected to be a Top 6 player (centre or wing) but I don't think we should be going to battle next season with him penciled into that role for the entire year.

If we flip Scheifele for Nylander, the solidifies our top 6 winger position. The hole would be at 2C but I would be OK trying to resign Statsny for that position for next year. Top 6 line-up would look something like this:

Connor-Dubois-Nylander
Ehlers-Statsny-Wheeler

A trade like this would certainly bolster our winger strength. It's not a bad result so I would toss that into the possibility category (without getting into what the add would have to be on Toronto's part).

 

[cneely]

Nylander doesn't quite bring the same offence (pretty close last year), and is $800k more expensive. He is younger but plays the less valuable position. I'd say the Leafs would have to add something of substance. Maybe a 2nd?

 

[Guffman]

Nylander doesn't quite bring the same offence (pretty close last year), and is $800k more expensive. He is younger but plays the less valuable position. I'd say the Leafs would have to add something of substance. Maybe a 2nd?

Toronto is out of 2nd round picks for a couple of years and I don't think a late 2nd round pick fills the gap. Perhaps Toronto's 1st round pick would.

 

[cneely]

Nylander doesn't quite bring the same offence (pretty close last year), and is $800k more expensive. He is younger but plays the less valuable position. I'd say the Leafs would have to add something of substance. Maybe a 2nd?

 

[cneely]

I'll put it in simpler terms, if we had Schiefle as our 2C instead of JT we would have lost a lot sooner. Tampa would have chewed him up and spit him out and laughed at us for using him against them. A lot of people would rather have a 60 point two way guy.

That's an interesting thing to say when Scheifele was the number one center on a team in 2018 that went to the WCF, farther than the Leafs have been in a long time. And he wasn't a passenger. 14 goals and 20 points in 17 playoff games that year.

He was awful last year defensively, no doubt, but as others have said, don't discount the impact the team and its lack of structure had on his performance,

 

[Guffman]

That's an interesting thing to say when Scheifele was the number one center on a team in 2018 that went to the WCF, farther than the Leafs have been in a long time. And he wasn't a passenger. 14 goals and 20 points in 17 playoff games that year.

He was awful last year defensively, no doubt, but as others have said, don't discount the impact the team and its lack of structure had on his performance,

Scheifele is fully capable of playing strong defensively. As others have pointed out, he played extremely well to shut down Connor McDavid in last year's playoffs.

It's not a lack of skill issue for Scheifele to play a solid two-way game. It's his motivation and lack of accountability. Under Maurice, it's almost like the Jets were allowed to play an undisciplined style of game for the first half of the year to rack up their stats and then tighten up after the all-star game to get their game good.

Scheifele in a properly structured team and a coach that demands accountability will be a terrific player. Part of me hopes that we can sign Trotz and then have Scheifele stay and play under him.

 

[10Ducky10]

Scheifele is fully capable of playing strong defensively. As others have pointed out, he played extremely well to shut down Connor McDavid in last year's playoffs.

It's not a lack of skill issue for Scheifele to play a solid two-way game. It's his motivation and lack of accountability. Under Maurice, it's almost like the Jets were allowed to play an undisciplined style of game for the first half of the year to rack up their stats and then tighten up after the all-star game to get their game good.

Scheifele in a properly structured team and a coach that demands accountability will be a terrific player. Part of me hopes that we can sign Trotz and then have Scheifele stay and play under him.

He plays a totally different game in the playoffs than he has in the past few seasons.
He gives a shat in the post-season.
Regular sesaon, not so much.
I agree with playing him under Trotz for a season. If you want to trade him after that season, the new team can work out a deal beforehand and extend him.

 

[cneely]

Scheifele is fully capable of playing strong defensively. As others have pointed out, he played extremely well to shut down Connor McDavid in last year's playoffs.

It's not a lack of skill issue for Scheifele to play a solid two-way game. It's his motivation and lack of accountability. Under Maurice, it's almost like the Jets were allowed to play an undisciplined style of game for the first half of the year to rack up their stats and then tighten up after the all-star game to get their game good.

Scheifele in a properly structured team and a coach that demands accountability will be a terrific player. Part of me hopes that we can sign Trotz and then have Scheifele stay and play under him.

Yeah, as a Bruins fan, I'd love to get him, I think he'd be fantastic as a 2c behind Bergeron for a couple of years, then taking over the 1c role with Pasta riding shotgun.

I don't think we have the assets though. Lysell plus Lohrei, plus Debrusk?

 

[BlueBaron]

It

You make it sound like the Jets want Nylander. They do not…

Source?

 

[BlueBaron]

That's an interesting thing to say when Scheifele was the number one center on a team in 2018 that went to the WCF, farther than the Leafs have been in a long time. And he wasn't a passenger. 14 goals and 20 points in 17 playoff games that year.

He was awful last year defensively, no doubt, but as others have said, don't discount the impact the team and its lack of structure had on his performance,

Sure but last season coupled with his season ending presser affects the value. I don't think he's a bad player I just don't think his value is much different than Nylander's, which has been my position from the start. Please don't think I'm trying to say he's crap, I'm just pointing to things that can affect his trade value. One eager buyer who loves him flushes all my concerns down the toilet.

 

[cneely]

Sure but last season coupled with his season ending presser affects the value. I don't think he's a bad player I just don't think his value is much different than Nylander's, which has been my position from the start. Please don't think I'm trying to say he's crap, I'm just pointing to things that can affect his trade value. One eager buyer who loves him flushes all my concerns down the toilet.

Yeah, I get that. If he wants to be moved he didn't do himself any favours.

Nylander can also however be subject to the same questions about his effort at times, and prior to last year never really eve approached 1 PPG. His career high before last year was 61 points, although that's a little disingenuous because he had paced for over 70 in shortened seasons.

I think Scheifele has more value by a fair bit.

 

[BlueBaron]

Yeah, I get that. If he wants to be moved he didn't do himself any favours.

Nylander can also however be subject to the same questions about his effort at times, and prior to last year never really eve approached 1 PPG. His career high before last year was 61 points, although that's a little disingenuous because he had paced for over 70 in shortened seasons.

I think Scheifele has more value by a fair bit.

We may never know and it's OK to disagree. I'm no expert and am leaning heavily on last season. I'm wrong all the time but that helps me learn.

 

[rubikscube]

It

Source?

Are you serious?

How could there possibly be a source saying "the Jets aren't interested in Nylander"?

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

How about the Jets throw in Hellebuyck as well so they can really help the Leafs. Just add Mrazek and Kerfoot and sounds like a deal

 

[gojetsgo]

It

Source?

source that the jets are interested in nylander?

 

[seanlinden]

Personally... I think it's a situation where both players might actually benefit from the move.

Scheifele, IMO, needs to move to a team where there's an already established leadership structure in place, and he's just a guy to fit into the puzzle. Boston probably the best spot for him behind Bergy & Marchand, but personally, I don't think Toronto is that far behind. You've got JT as the captain, Rielly, who's a year younger than Scheif, but much more cemented as a leader in the room. You've then got AM and MM, who obviously haven't been around the block as long as Scheife has, but are still 6-year veterans that are legitimate superstars in the league.

One of the biggest flaws in Nylander's game is of course the game-to-game, shift-to-shift compete level. Personally, I think one of teh reasons he's never been able to shake that reputation, is because AM and MM's production allow him not to. Put him in Winnipeg, and he's an everyday 1st line winger IMO. I think that in itself may bring a little more game-to-game effort out of Nylander.

From a compete window / timing perspective, I think you can make the case that it works reasonably well in that regard too.

Scheifele is 29, and will be 31 when his next deal kicks in. He'll likely be around 800 games played. He's going to be signing a retirement contract, and given that he'll be 31 certainly carries some risk in that.

Nylander is 26, and will be 28 when his next deal kicks in. He'll likely be around 600 games played. At 28, I think most teams would be fairly comfortable with him on an 8-year deal, and that 8th year could be pretty vital to getting his cap hit down.

Scheifele has the better contract today, but I don't think it's a stretch to say Nylander is likely to have the better next contract.