Atomos2
Registered User
Yeah, Trouba might have been a stud in those tournaments a few years ago. That's the whole point. A lot has happened since then. We deal in the here and now.
JetsHomer
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2011
- 10,941
- 3,146
A lot has happened agreed. Trouba has gotten significantly better since then and all advanced stats agree!
Yup. What's happened is that he's continued to improve as a defenseman since he was a stud in those tournaments that seem to have impressed you so much now that Rielly played in one.
I think your problem is that you tend to "scout" players on other teams like Trouba using point totals, rather than watching him play or through more sophisticated analytic metrics. I can understand why a die-hard fan would do that, but you'll have to understand that we'll need to take that into consideration when we read your posts.
Just to refresh your memory, here are some metrics from last season. You know, the season where Rielly showed that he was a star defenseman and Trouba "regressed" to being a plug? I'll let other posters figure out how objective your narrative is about Trouba vs. Rielly.
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Dustin
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2014
- 5,001
- 1,346
Leafs obviously take this trade as it benefits them more in both value and need. This trade does nothing for Winnipeg though.
The only issue I see for Toronto would be giving up on Nylander to soon. If Nylander continues to develop he turn into a real possession driving, point producing player. I wouldn't be entertaining any Nylander trades until after at least 1 full season in the NHL.
The only issue I see for Toronto would be giving up on Nylander to soon. If Nylander continues to develop he turn into a real possession driving, point producing player. I wouldn't be entertaining any Nylander trades until after at least 1 full season in the NHL.
TMLife*
Auston Matthews
MardyBum
Registered User
Why would we downgrade a position of weakness to upgrade a position of strength?
Terrible proposal.
Terrible proposal.
The Winter Soldier
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2011
- 71,030
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I commend you for atleast putting some thought into this. However, I don't think Winnipeg would do this deal. They have a plethora of talented young fwds that are as talented or more in Laine, Connor, Ehlers. And Trouba has much more upside and invested development in him than what Dermott brings to the table.
Petan could be a neat 3C for the Jets also. Don't see this happening from a Jets perspective.
Yikes. These Trouba proposals are always the same old song and dance. Someone starts with a lowball offer by Toronto to get Trouba (this one isn't necessarily as bad as some of the others, at least Nylander has some value, it's just that the Jets don't need forwards.) Then Jet fans come in and say the asking price is Rielly (because it would take a quality piece to bring in a young, skilled, top-pairing potential defenseman who is already a top 4) and then Leaf fans whine that Rielly is much better/Trouba wants too much money that he doesn't deserve/Trouba's overrated and not good even though they just proposed a trade for him.
As for the original proposal, the basis doesn't work for the Jets because we don't want to trade the most valuable piece from our weakest pool to improve our strongest one. We already have a logjam of talented forward prospects; so much so that it may result in Stafford being traded. Would you trade Rielly for Connor? Because that's what that proposal is like to us.
I can see why the Leafs would do it. They're essentially trading the least valuable of their big three prospects for a stud defenseman. I would have to think the asking price for Trouba would be too much for Toronto.
As for the original proposal, the basis doesn't work for the Jets because we don't want to trade the most valuable piece from our weakest pool to improve our strongest one. We already have a logjam of talented forward prospects; so much so that it may result in Stafford being traded. Would you trade Rielly for Connor? Because that's what that proposal is like to us.
I can see why the Leafs would do it. They're essentially trading the least valuable of their big three prospects for a stud defenseman. I would have to think the asking price for Trouba would be too much for Toronto.
Yup.
The Leafs need to continue to build through draft and development. They don't have enough organizational depth to be trading for a top-end young defenseman. Smarter to develop another one or two on their own. They are early in the building process, so they have time.
Yep. Literally every time it devolves into a debate of Rielly v Trouba with both fan bases pooping on eachothers players. Both Franchises are building correctly and both franchises are fortunate to have top tier young talent like Rielly and Trouba. I can't wait till Chevy signs him to 7 yrs so this can all go away- at least for a week or so anyways.
Just wondering if people who are saying Reilly and Trouba are close due to hero charts, will also say Gardiner and Weber/Josi are close as well?
Anyway trade value is there I would think but as a Leafs fan I'll pass. Rielly-Trouba would be one heck of a pair, but Nylander-Matthews will be better (If willy doesn't move back to centre ala Seguin.
Jets already have an amazing forward pool so understandable why they don't want to trade Trouba for more forwards.
Anyway trade value is there I would think but as a Leafs fan I'll pass. Rielly-Trouba would be one heck of a pair, but Nylander-Matthews will be better (If willy doesn't move back to centre ala Seguin.
Jets already have an amazing forward pool so understandable why they don't want to trade Trouba for more forwards.
tony d
New poll series coming from me in June
kk87
Registered User
Both sides say no. From a Leafs perspective, I wouldn't trade a potential top line forward for a second pairing dman straight up.
CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
Except the only reason Jacob Trouba is a second pair defender is because he's behind Enstrom and Buff on the depth chart, and yet still had the 2nd most 5V5 TOI out of all Jets defenders. Such a dumb argument. 2nd pair defender.
Evil Little
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2014
- 6,311
- 2,739
I see way more Leafs fan ******** on Trouba than Jets fan ******** on Rielly.
And I wouldn't trade a potential #1 d-man for an AHL forward, so...
Maukkis
EZ4ENCE
- Mar 16, 2016
- 10,721
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What a convenient way to ignore the massive two-year age difference between the two. Or is this the classic "anyone outside of my team plateaus at the age of 22" thing?
lomiller1
Registered User
- Jan 13, 2015
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Quality of Competition and especially Quality of Team-mate also need to be considered. QoT is by far the biggest contextual factor players face. Weber/Josi frequently share the ice with a Center who kills the possession stats of everyone he plays with. Similarly Trouba plays with a D partner who kills the possession numbers of anyone who takes to the ice with him.
Rielly also spent a lot of time with a weak possession player, but Hunwick is not nearly as bad as Stuart or Gaustad, and when separated from him Rielly's numbers don't improve nearly as much.
Gardiner it the Leafs version of Paul Postma. They do well against sheltered competition, but until they show they can do it with more/tougher min take the shot metrics with a grain of salt.
Maukkis
EZ4ENCE
- Mar 16, 2016
- 10,721
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Nope. No need for Kadri at all. Rielly is the only defenseman who works for Winnipeg if Trouba goes the other way. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is.
Evil Little
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2014
- 6,311
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No need to downgrade from the Jets' greatest position of need--young, high-end defence--to upgrade on their greatest position of strength.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Pass. Not trading both of those guys for Trouba. Maybe 1 + something else of more reasonable value.
The Winter Soldier
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2011
- 71,030
- 21,383
I agree. I surmise Trouba will be given a much larger role with the Jets next season. He is the best piece in this proposal by far. There is no way the Jets make this deal unless Rielly comes back the other way. Which is why this deal will not be made. Chevy is too sharp a judge of talent for this to happen.
I think we'd be looking for as close to 1 for 1 as possible if Trouba were moved. Primary need coming back would be LHD. No need for forwards or goaltenders at the moment. Right now our roster looks great on paper and just needs to develop and reach their potential. I'm still all for trading Myers when he's healthy rather than Trouba. He's been serviceable as a top 4 dman even while playing through a nagging injury for the past two years according to the reports that came out when he was sidelined for hip and knee surgery over the summer. Thing is, his value would be much less than ideal after surgery. Maybe he becomes available at the TDL if the Jets aren't in a position to contend for the playoffs. With Dallas, Chicago, Nashville, and St. Louis having a good chance of making the playoffs we'd have to hope only 3 get in from the Pacific and that we beat out Colorado and Minnesota. The Central division sucks to play in heh.
