Tak7
Registered User
Oh for sure - I was asking more in the rhetorical sense. I know we are in agreement.
They aren't contenders in my mind.
GDT: Toronto @ Tampa - 7pm - SN
- Thread starter ACC1224
- Start date
- Status
They aren't contenders in my mind.
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 10,632
- 20,795
Expand 'Panthers - Opposition', select Aleksander Barkov in the dropdown box. It shows 10:57 for TOI beside Matthews' name. Under 'Panthers - On Ice', you can see that Barkov played 15:13 at 5v5.
Edit: DobberHockey is also showing pretty much the same.
Last edited:
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 9,789
- 10,678
The whole idea of quality of competition and matchups has been shown to be hugely overblown, but some posters still cling to it the way a drowning man clings to a Mae West.
MyLoveIsBlue
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2015
- 2,297
- 7,681
I went shift-by-shift through Barkov’s ice time and compared it to Matthews’. There are maybe 2 or 3 short overlaps in the entire game -tops. You’d be lucky to stretch it to 3 minutes total. There’s absolutely no way it was 11 minutes.
Expand 'Panthers - Opposition', select Aleksander Barkov in the dropdown box. It shows 10:57 for TOI beside Matthews' name. Under 'Panthers - On Ice', you can see that Barkov played 15:13 at 5v5.
Edit: DobberHockey is also showing pretty much the same.
- Aug 19, 2002
- 73,424
- 46,746
Matches the eye test, it did seem like they were on the ice together quite often.
Expand 'Panthers - Opposition', select Aleksander Barkov in the dropdown box. It shows 10:57 for TOI beside Matthews' name. Under 'Panthers - On Ice', you can see that Barkov played 15:13 at 5v5.
Edit: DobberHockey is also showing pretty much the same.
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 10,632
- 20,795
Given how much these sites are used for fantasy hockey decisions (esp DobberHockey) and the algorithms they have in place to collect the data directly from NHL.com, and that they've been doing this for several years, I am inclined to believe them, no offense. If you can show that it's inaccurate though then perhaps you should send them an e-mail with your data.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
- 9,247
- 7,059
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,041
- 7,910
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 10,632
- 20,795
Lol what? You're generally a good poster but this isn't accurate. If anything, the opposite is true - advanced stats nerds who treated Corsi as the be all and end all used to say that QoC stats were garbage and that OZ/DZ deployment didn't matter and pretty much insinuated that if a player had a high CF% or relative CF% then they were good irrespective of who they played against. Problem is then you had random third and fourth liners leading the way in CF, but then why didn't coaches / teams have those guys playing on the top line? Surely they must be stars if they are dominating in CF right?
More work has been done in recent years to normalize this by building models that factor in QoC, factor in quality of shots and chances, deployment etc to give a fulsome view of players, and this has produced a more accurate view of which players are actually effective.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 9,789
- 10,678
Between different styles of coaching, home and away games, on the fly line changes, icings, and the simple fact that there are four forward lines and only three sets of D it's been shown that quality of competition is far less relevant than quality of linemates.
HogTown06
Registered User
Looking at the remaining schedule if the Leafs lose tonight it's likely they finish 2nd and face Florida. All of TB's games after tonight are very winnable and the Leafs have a tough game against the Canes on the second leg of a back to back.
Seeing how poorly they match against the Panthers that doesn't bode well.
Seeing how poorly they match against the Panthers that doesn't bode well.
1st period:
| Barkov Shift (approx) | Overlapping Leafs Centers |
|---|
| 00:30–02:00 | John Tavares, Max Domi |
| 04:10–05:40 | John Tavares (full overlap) |
| 08:15–09:45 | Auston Matthews (partial), John Tavares (briefly) |
| 11:20–12:55 | John Tavares (near full), Holmberg (partial) |
| 16:10–17:40 | John Tavares, Domi |
2nd period:
| Barkov’s Shift | Overlapping Centers | Notes |
|---|
| 22:20–23:40 | Tavares (partial) | Tavares comes on late in the shift |
| 25:10–26:40 | Tavares (nearly full) | Strong head-to-head again |
| 28:30–30:00 | Matthews (partial), Domi | Tavares not on here |
| 32:30–33:50 | Tavares (brief overlap) | Just caught Tavares' shift change |
| 35:30–36:50 | Matthews (partial), Holmberg | No Tavares this time |
| 38:40–40:00 | Tavares (full) | Clean matchup to close the period |
3rd period
| Barkov’s Shift | Overlapping Centers | Notes |
|---|
| 42:15–43:45 | Tavares (partial) | Slight overlap late in shift |
| 45:00–46:20 | Tavares (full) | Strong direct matchup |
| 47:40–49:10 | Holmberg (brief), no Tavares | Tavares just off |
| 50:50–52:15 | Tavares (partial) | Another overlap begins |
| 54:00–55:20 | Tavares (full) | Locked in again |
| 57:00–58:25 | Tavares (almost entire shift) | Near-perfect overlap |
I've been long skeptical of those sites for the accuracy of their data.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
- 9,247
- 7,059
Puck battles last night were 70% Florida. Nice to have that confirmed.. I was mildly surprised we hit 30.
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,041
- 7,910
The issues you've described make it more difficult to accurately measure quality of competition but in no way do they show that quality of competition is irrelevant.
Just think on it for a moment - what you're suggesting is that it should not make a difference to AM if he's being shadowed by the best defensive forward in hockey vs just an average forward.
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
- 16,880
- 35,536
Pretty simple 4 games left for each team after tonight.
A win, we're 4 points up with 4 games left. Tampa would need to win all games and us basically go 1-3-0 to pass us.
Must win
A win, we're 4 points up with 4 games left. Tampa would need to win all games and us basically go 1-3-0 to pass us.
Must win
Ott does the same thing against Tor.
They are just not as good.
Critical to win the division. Hope like hell TB can knock out Florida and go from there.
Truth be told, no one wants to play Florida. They are unrelenting. Except maybe Montreal.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 9,789
- 10,678
I didn't say it was irrelevant, I said it has been shown to be less relevant.
Just think for a moment - would it make a difference to AM if he was playing with Marner and Knies vs Reaves and Jarnkrok?
And that would be against 31 teams, only one if which has "the best defensive forward in hockey".
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 10,632
- 20,795
Kudos to you for doing the work. I'll take your word for it - strange that there's such a discrepancy then.
Treat this like a game 7. History hasn't been kind. Show us this year may be different.
CelticDruid
Registered User
I wonder how many power-play goals the Lightning will score tonight?
Their PP is just super hot right now.
Their PP is just super hot right now.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 31,561
- 59,451
I know my Leafs, they do have a mo. They didn’t show up for a big test last night, which means they show up tonight. They’re a failure, also resilient. I’m predicting lots of jam tonight, see if I’m right.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
- 9,247
- 7,059
Let's fired up in here! Going to watch some Jays first to arrive in a better mood.
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
Latest posts
-
-
-
Pre-Game Talk: 1st Round - Battle of Ontario - Toronto Maple Leafs vs Ottawa Senators (36 Viewers)- Latest: DrEasy
