Pre-Game Talk: Toronto @ Montreal - Wednesday 7pm - SN

[weems]

""

Getting ready for opening night.

Domi approves

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843317424093044886

 

[Nineteen67]

3-2 or even 2-3 in the first 5 games would be an ok start to the season

 

[hamzarocks]

How many points do you think a typical 2nd line centre on a good team puts up? I assure you it's less than 77 or even 59.

For the leafs we need tavares being closer to ppg to be useful

59 pts at 11M is just an absurd waste of cap space with a 50-60 pt center being able to be obtained for 5-6M generally. We saw Monohan have 59 pts in 83 games last year and got between 5-6M

Playing tavares either at C or W with marner and nylander is the only way we can hide him and ensure his production is still strong for his pay and can avoid another 2 pts in 7 playoff game type series

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Fogelhund]

For the leafs we need tavares being closer to ppg to be useful

59 pts at 11M is just an absurd waste of cap space with a 50-60 pt center being able to be obtained for 5-6M generally. We saw Monohan have 59 pts in 83 games last year and got between 5-6M

Playing tavares either at C or W with marner and nylander is the only way we can hide him and ensure his production is still strong for his pay and can avoid another 2 pts in 7 playoff game type series

He's been 0.95 PPG since being signed. Everyone knew he'd have a drop off near the end. The contract has been decent for what he's provided.

He isn't going to extend for $11 mil, so obsessing about that contract is pointless. His next contract will likely be $3-4 million, or something around there.

His production in the playoffs last year in particular was indeed disappointing, but then the whole team wasn't very good in the playoffs. Berube needs to find a way to get more out of these guys in playoffs, and that's not just JT.

 

[Kurtz]

For the leafs we need tavares being closer to ppg to be useful

59 pts at 11M is just an absurd waste of cap space with a 50-60 pt center being able to be obtained for 5-6M generally. We saw Monohan have 59 pts in 83 games last year and got between 5-6M

Playing tavares either at C or W with marner and nylander is the only way we can hide him and ensure his production is still strong for his pay and can avoid another 2 pts in 7 playoff game type series

His salary is irrelevant to this particular question - we know he's very overpaid, there's no point debating this.

The question is, is his production good enough to be a 2nd line centre on a contending team, and there is no question that it is.

A typical first-line C puts up 77 points/season. A 2nd line C puts up 50 points/season. JT Put up 65 last season, which puts his production closer to that of a #1 C than #2 C. In no world is he not at least a good #2 C.

Review of Production Based on Time on Ice

How many points does the average 1st liner in the NHL get each regular season? What’s the typical production from forwards getting second line minutes? And how do Winnipeg Jet forwards compare to…

www.arcticicehockey.com

 

[TheDoldrums]

For the leafs we need tavares being closer to ppg to be useful

59 pts at 11M is just an absurd waste of cap space with a 50-60 pt center being able to be obtained for 5-6M generally. We saw Monohan have 59 pts in 83 games last year and got between 5-6M

Playing tavares either at C or W with marner and nylander is the only way we can hide him and ensure his production is still strong for his pay and can avoid another 2 pts in 7 playoff game type series

The cap space is already gone, it’s a sunk cost. It’s not like they have a choice to reallocate it so making moves just to get “value” out of it makes no sense.

 

[-DeMo-]

Tavares had 65 pts playing mostly with a 120 pt winger (nylander had 48 in 33 and tavares had 31 in 33 before the lines changed).

Tavares went from a 77 pt pace playing with a top 5 player in the league for that time down to a 59 pt center (34 pts in next 47 games ) which was more around what he was capable of after nylander insane stretch ended

We saw tavares give 2 pts in 7 playoff games playing closer to a 4C then a 2C

The idead that Tavares is capable of being a 2C for contending team is a lie.

He will need 2 90-100 pt wingers driving the line and creating all the offense for him to get 60-70 pts this year and not be useless come playoffs.

We pay nylander and marner 22.5M this year for this reason. They need to drive the corpse of tavares to be a respectable top 6 player

hmmm interesting so by the same logic Nylander went from this 120 pt guy with Tavares down to a 83 point guy after the line changes seems to me Nylander benefitted from Tavares as well based on the same logic.

also like how you took the best part of his season away and then said see he's terrible! as if 49 game sample is a good enough sample to prove your point. but I mean even if someone agreed with your premise when you say he needs two 90-100 point guys on his line to carry him yet you proved in your own post that isn't true he just needs 1. he played those first 33 games with Nylander and Bertuzzi who basically was a blackhole in those 33 games. and played at a #1C level.

 

[notbias]

It is early, so things will change, but either Berube or Treliving looks like an idiot, you can decide who.

They appear to have about $5 million sitting in the press box.

I will expect the people who think that cap space is the most valuable asset to defend this though.

 

[hamzarocks]

The cap space is already gone, it’s a sunk cost. It’s not like they have a choice to reallocate it so making moves just to get “value” out of it makes no sense.

The capspace is sunk but the value tavares provides is not

Playing with 1 of marner or nylander as 2C or without them he is a 60 pt guy. And gives ~6.5M value

Playing with both of them he can get to 75-80 pts and be a ~8-8.5M in value

We can optimize his remaining time as a top 6 player with 2 of the top 7 wingers in the league who can drive that line and create chances for him, for themselves and for each other.

Matthews has shown he can score. Robertson looks ready to breakout huge.

Knies-Matthews-Robertson has the makings of a very good 1st line while Tavares with the 2 top wingers should be the best 2nd line in the NHL.

We need to not pretend tavares is as capable as he was from 2018-2023 and adjust his usage and line mates to help make his valuable and able to contribute in the reg season and playoffs

 

[Skullz]

We have too many redundant forwards and I do not like McMann sitting over Reaves at all.

So has Rielly lost his A to Marner? That's some BS if that's the case.

 

[Fogelhund]

The capspace is sunk but the value tavares provides is not

Playing with 1 of marner or nylander as 2C or without them he is a 60 pt guy. And gives ~6.5M value

Playing with both of them he can get to 75-80 pts and be a ~8-8.5M in value

We can optimize his remaining time as a top 6 player with 2 of the top 7 wingers in the league who can drive that line and create chances for him, for themselves and for each other.

Matthews has shown he can score. Robertson looks ready to breakout huge.

Knies-Matthews-Robertson has the makings of a very good 1st line while Tavares with the 2 top wingers should be the best 2nd line in the NHL.

We need to not pretend tavares is as capable as he was from 2018-2023 and adjust his usage and line mates to help make his valuable and able to contribute in the reg season and playoffs

Did you ever think playing with Tavares, allowed Nylander's production to take off? That Nylander benefited from being on Tavares line?

 

[hamzarocks]

He's been 0.95 PPG since being signed. Everyone knew he'd have a drop off near the end. The contract has been decent for what he's provided.

He isn't going to extend for $11 mil, so obsessing about that contract is pointless. His next contract will likely be $3-4 million, or something around there.

His production in the playoffs last year in particular was indeed disappointing, but then the whole team wasn't very good in the playoffs. Berube needs to find a way to get more out of these guys in playoffs, and that's not just JT.

The best way to get value out of him is having him be a the 3rd wheel on a line and not needing to carry the puck or make tough plays. Nylander the puck carrier, marner the setup man, and tavares the scorer in front and on tips/slot looks

I dont know if he will take 3-4M as no one of his age (kopitar, giroux, malkin, stamkos, kane, etc) took that low. I can see 5-6M

 

[Fogelhund]

We have too many redundant forwards and I do not like McMann sitting over Reaves at all.

So has Rielly lost his A to Marner? That's some BS if that's the case.

I think we need to keep the game one lineup in perspective. After the BS from Montreal the last time we played them, it's no shock that we are going to dress Reaves, and it wouldn't shock me to see Myers in there too. Reaves will only be in the lineup to address Costco.

 

[hamzarocks]

Did you ever think playing with Tavares, allowed Nylander's production to take off? That Nylander benefited from being on Tavares line?

Back in 2020 and 2021 yes, nylander benefited from tavares as he was capable of driving play and creating a lot of looks

In 2023 and 2024, nylander drives that line and is hurt by the chances Tavares was missing.

Game 2 flordia being one of the more glaring examples of Nylander losing 2-3 pts due to tavares not finishing prime set up looks in front of the net.

Having a 3 headed trio of 88/91/16 will allow for all three players to play to their strengths, hide them from the top/best defensive lines, and allow for Robertson and Knies to move to becoming core level players with 1st line roles and usage with matthews a top 5/6 player in the world

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's been 0.95 PPG since being signed. Everyone knew he'd have a drop off near the end. The contract has been decent for what he's provided.

He isn't going to extend for $11 mil, so obsessing about that contract is pointless. His next contract will likely be $3-4 million, or something around there.

His production in the playoffs last year in particular was indeed disappointing, but then the whole team wasn't very good in the playoffs. Berube needs to find a way to get more out of these guys in playoffs, and that's not just JT.

I think that was obvious to most of us, but there seem to be a couple of posters who don't think that has even started yet.

 

[Fogelhund]

The best way to get value out of him is having him be a the 3rd wheel on a line and not needing to carry the puck or make tough plays. Nylander the puck carrier, marner the setup man, and tavares the scorer in front and on tips/slot looks

I dont know if he will take 3-4M as no one of his age (kopitar, giroux, malkin, stamkos, kane, etc) took that low. I can see 5-6M

He wants to stay in Toronto, for family and wife reasons. He wants to win... I think he's going to take a very friendly deal. At this stage, another mil or two per year isn't going to change his financial future.

For sure Nylander is the puck carrier at times... Domi can move the puck as a setup guy pretty well too.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The best way to get value out of him is having him be a the 3rd wheel on a line and not needing to carry the puck or make tough plays. Nylander the puck carrier, marner the setup man, and tavares the scorer in front and on tips/slot looks

I dont know if he will take 3-4M as no one of his age (kopitar, giroux, malkin, stamkos, kane, etc) took that low. I can see 5-6M

If he wants 5-6M you tell him to take a hike. I feel we need to walk away at any price.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean It's based in logic isn't it? How can you earn anything when you are hurt more then you play? Including game 7.

Like I said Woll is VERY good when he's healthy but there are still MANY questions with Woll.

I hope he is that dude because then he's at 3.6 for 3 more years that's fantastic.

But if he gets hurt long term again he's got to go.

He can't be getting injured all the time.

I believe he's healthy enough to start Wednesday.

 

[Fogelhund]

If he wants 5-6M you tell him to take a hike. I feel we need to walk away at any price.

and you replace him with who exactly?

Granlund, Gourde..... you think that makes us better?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Domi approves

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843317424093044886

Myers has had an extremely successful preseason, actually deserving to start one of the first two games. He also knows what his bread and butter is going to be given his lack of offensive skills. He needs to play a tough aggressive game which may lead to a few fights. For that, he better be prepared to defend himself.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

We have too many redundant forwards and I do not like McMann sitting over Reaves at all.

So has Rielly lost his A to Marner? That's some BS if that's the case.

I'm not Reaves' biggest fan but Wednesday's game has the potential to get real chippy and dirty and we're going to appreciate having him out there....IF he does his job. If Jack-ass wants to run our people, he should have someone to be accountable to.

 

[3blizzard4]

Can’t wait for the over actions!

If we win HFBoards: plan the parade

If we lose HFBoards: Laffs

 

[Roo]

I'm not Reaves' biggest fan but Wednesday's game has the potential to get real chippy and dirty and we're going to appreciate having him out there....IF he does his job. If Jack-ass wants to run our people, he should have someone to be accountable to.

Interesting take

Some were pushing to have him waivers, claiming he is completely useless to us, about 10 days ago. Then Xhekaj jumped Pare and those posters stopped responding

 

[Fogelhund]

Interesting take

Some were pushing to have him waivers, claiming he is completely useless to us, about 10 days ago. Then Xhekaj jumped Pare and those posters stopped responding

He is useless... except for against Montreal. He should be useless against Montreal too... but DoPs has given Costco the greenlight to be a jackass... so it is what it is. We are better off hockey wise without him. This is more of a DoPs story, not doing their jobs, than anything else.