Proposal: Toronto - Las Vegas

[Sojourn]

Expect a meager return. the other 29 teams will know Anaheim is desperate to shed a dman for futures.

Isn't this the same story we heard this off-season? We're still waiting for Fowler to be sold for pennies on the dollar.

Still waiting on that Lindholm offer sheet too.

GM's around the league will pay, because they will all want one of them. The last thing some GM wants is to see another team buy a player like Vatanen or Fowler for cheap, because it means they missed out. This whole expectation that all the GM's are going to try to screw Anaheim is countered by each GM's desire to improve their team.

 

[Vipers31]

Expect a meager return. the other 29 teams will know Anaheim is desperate to shed a dman for futures.

Laughable notion, really. No team is ever going to be "desperate" trading great young top-4/top-2 defenders. 29 teams will indeed know they'd be available, but 5+ will be wanting to acquire them rather badly, so the price will be adequate.

Isn't this the same story we heard this off-season? We're still waiting for Fowler to be sold for pennies on the dollar.

Still waiting on that Lindholm offer sheet too.

Don't forget the cheap price for Andersen, given that GMs know the market will be flooded before expansion. 1st round pick was virtually out of the question.

 

[Sojourn]

Don't forget the cheap price for Andersen, given that GMs know the market will be flooded before expansion. 1st round pick was virtually out of the question.

Right, right. I forgot about that one. It's almost as if 29 GM's aren't all working together to screw over 1 GM.

 

[Vipers31]

Right, right. I forgot about that one. It's almost as if 29 GM's aren't all working together to screw over 1 GM.

I have it on great authority that they will start implementing that kind of approach by expansion, though, so we really shouldn't be getting our hopes up that crazy things like the ever-scarce market for top young defenders actually rule something like value. That's just being naive, really.

 

[Halla]

Isn't this the same story we heard this off-season? We're still waiting for Fowler to be sold for pennies on the dollar.

Still waiting on that Lindholm offer sheet too.

GM's around the league will pay, because they will all want one of them. The last thing some GM wants is to see another team buy a player like Vatanen or Fowler for cheap, because it means they missed out. This whole expectation that all the GM's are going to try to screw Anaheim is countered by each GM's desire to improve their team.

different situation though no?
30 teams will likely have to choose their 3 best dman and the others are at risk. why would any team pay anaheim fair value to help anaheim out?

also lets see what happens when despres comes back or anaheim needs goal scoring before saying that fowler isnt gonna be moved

 

[Exit Dose]

different situation though no?
30 teams will likely have to choose their 3 best dman and the others are at risk. why would any team pay anaheim fair value to help anaheim out?

also lets see what happens when despres comes back or anaheim needs goal scoring before saying that fowler isnt gonna be moved

Because any team that misses out on a trade is going to be SOL after that point, since the D market is still the D market.

 

[Sojourn]

different situation though no?
30 teams will likely have to choose their 3 best dman and the others are at risk. why would any team pay anaheim fair value to help anaheim out?

also lets see what happens when despres comes back or anaheim needs goal scoring before saying that fowler isnt gonna be moved

That's a different argument entirely, and is pretty vague. I wouldn't move Fowler just because of Despres, though. Fowler is a much better defenseman.

Pretty much any player is available for the right deal. That includes Fowler. I'm not sure how this is really an argument.

 

[HanSolo]

Wouldn't give up that much for Manson. He is 25 already, I don't see him getting much better

Yeah I forgot a defenseman's prime was 25 years old. And after only one year in the NHL, Josh has learned all he can.

I understand not wanting to pay that much but Manson's potential isn't capped out.

 

[Halla]

Laughable notion, really. No team is ever going to be "desperate" trading great young top-4/top-2 defenders. 29 teams will indeed know they'd be available, but 5+ will be wanting to acquire them rather badly, so the price will be adequate.



Don't forget the cheap price for Andersen, given that GMs know the market will be flooded before expansion. 1st round pick was virtually out of the question.

that was when that 1st rd was looking like pick 15-17

most leafs fans were willing to do our 2nd (31st OA) + a good prospect for Andersen. Pick 30 + what would be pick 49 right now is just about what people were expecting andersen to go for. no need to get dramatic

 

[Halla]

Yeah I forgot a defenseman's prime was 25 years old. And after only one year in the NHL, Josh has learned all he can.

I understand not wanting to pay that much but Manson's potential isn't capped out.

good for him, still doesnt mean we are gonna give up two 2nds, one of our top forward prospects, and then lose carrick to vegas just to grab manson. this is just not a good deal from torontos POV. Jim benning isnt the GM, and Lou isnt that dumb

 

[Halla]

Because any team that misses out on a trade is going to be SOL after that point, since the D market is still the D market.

except when vegas grabs about 12 dmen then puts half of them on the block, pretty much what happens at every expansion.

pretty sure they are gonna see more value in #4dmen than 3rd line wingers, and will look to parlay a few of those into more assets

 

[go4hockey]

different situation though no?
30 teams will likely have to choose their 3 best dman and the others are at risk. why would any team pay anaheim fair value to help anaheim out?

also lets see what happens when despres comes back or anaheim needs goal scoring before saying that fowler isnt gonna be moved

Do you really think every team in the league has 3/4 better defensemen than Fowler or Vats? There would be a fair number of teams interested in either player to where they will get fair value.

 

[Ducks in a row]

After the expansion draft:

TO LV: 2 x 2nd round picks + Leipsic + Loov

TO TOR: (selected from ANA) J. Manson

Toronto wouldn't pay that for Manson. Ducks will try to keep Manson if we have to we would offer Las Vegas something not to take him in the expansion draft.

yeah, am i missing something here?

I don't watch many Ducks games but is Manson that good?

Yeah he has had some very good advanced stats so people who don't watch him think he is better then he really is. He is a rock solid defenseman but he ain't as good as advanced stats suggest.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Most teams will be protecting 7 forwards and 3 Dmen, some 4 forwards and 4 Dmen.

I believe the Leafs will be in situation where they can protect just 3 forwards, Kadri, JVR and Brown and five Dmen...Reilly, Gardiner and maybe Carrick. The Leafs will be able likely trade for other teams "4" Dmen, who would claimed by Vegas. Leafs can use their excess of young forwards to get a competent NHL Dman from one or two teams.
It similar what will likely happen to Fleury and Murray. One is going to be traded otherwise they will lose the other just as expansion draftee. Some team will think let's say Murray is better than # 1 so the deal is made. Sure Pens won't get full value, but better than just a draft claim.

With the expansion draft coming there might not be much trading till the end of the season but certainly in the few days after the Cup final and the expansion draft

 

[Exit Dose]

except when vegas grabs about 12 dmen then puts half of them on the block, pretty much what happens at every expansion.

pretty sure they are gonna see more value in #4dmen than 3rd line wingers, and will look to parlay a few of those into more assets

There's a major gap between what will be available to them(what's unprotected) and what is not.

 

[LV*]

Tbh prob wouldnt even trade one of our 2nds for Manson, let alone 2 + Leipsic.

 

[Sojourn]

Tbh prob wouldnt even trade one of our 2nds for Manson, let alone 2 + Leipsic.

Manson is absolutely worth a 2nd. He's worth more than a 2nd.

 

[Vipers31]

Manson is absolutely worth a 2nd. He's worth more than a 2nd.

When a guy like Polak gets two 2nds and other comparables routinely fetch 2nds, it's kind of impossible to argue Manson isn't worth two 2nds. Which obviously wouldn't get him, either.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Tbh prob wouldnt even trade one of our 2nds for Manson, let alone 2 + Leipsic.

That's ridiculous.

 

[SI90]

I could see the leafs and Vegas making a deal around Kadri

 

[Halla]

I could see the leafs and Vegas making a deal around Kadri

I couldn't. Then when Bozak is gone next year we have Matthews and Gauthier at C? and what exactly would vegas give us back ?

 

[Halla]

That's ridiculous.

not wanting to give up a pair of 2nds, and one of our top prospects for a lateblooming bottom pairing dman is nowhere near ridiculous.
leafs need a top pairing guy to play with rielly, and allow zaitsez to play with gardiner. manson isnt that guy

 

[Vipers31]

not wanting to give up a pair of 2nds, and one of our top prospects for a lateblooming bottom pairing dman is nowhere near ridiculous.

The part where he said he probably wouldn't even do one is ridiculous. Being unwilling to give up a pair is on the very outer line of questionable, but probably not being willing to give up one is completely ridiculous.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

not wanting to give up a pair of 2nds, and one of our top prospects for a lateblooming bottom pairing dman is nowhere near ridiculous.
leafs need a top pairing guy to play with rielly, and allow zaitsez to play with gardiner. manson isnt that guy

You really need to read what you're responding to.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

different situation though no?
30 teams will likely have to choose their 3 best dman and the others are at risk. why would any team pay anaheim fair value to help anaheim out?

also lets see what happens when despres comes back or anaheim needs goal scoring before saying that fowler isnt gonna be moved

Cause not all 30 teams have 3 good defensemen, so if you could pick up a guy like lindholm vatanen or fowler why wouldn't you, I can think of plenty of teams that don't have 3 dmen worth keeping over vats or fowler. Team mangers likely wouldn't be looking at it as helping Anaheim out, but more likely seeing it as a way to improve their team, I doubt they care what Anaheim situation looks like if they can get a good top 4 dmen.


Bet youd never guess but Toronto is one of them. Also despres could very well not come back, and we have other pieces to get goal scoring... more or less we need a 2nd/3rd line winger to play with rakell and vermette... fowler is much higher valued then that.

Anyway ill let you continue talking out your ass about Anaheim because you have been right all off season... oh wait