Proposal: Toronto and Anaheim

[liquiduck]

lol at putting larsson as the 27th pick like thats his value. he is a better prospect than montour

Yea, there is no way Anaheim gives up two of it's top 4 prospects for JVR. What did Pitt give up to get Kessel?

 

[Liferleafer]

Yea, there is now way anaheim gives up two of it's top 4 prospects for JVR. What did Pitt give up to get Kessel?

You mean 8 million dollar 8 year contract no trade clause Kessel?

 

[liquiduck]

You mean 8 million dollar 8 year contract no trade clause Kessel?

Toronto retained on that deal, and the term is actually a value boost compared to JVR who is gone is less than 2 seasons.

 

[4thline]

You mean 8 million dollar 8 year contract no trade clause Kessel?

Yup that's the one, the one that had only 1 available trading partner and who's value was at an all time low.

Yea, there is no way Anaheim gives up two of it's top 4 prospects for JVR. What did Pitt give up to get Kessel?

Well
their top forward prospect that was pencilled into the top 9
their 2nd-3rd best d prospect thought to be bottom pairing ready but without much upside
their first

 

[liquiduck]

Yup that's the one, the one that had only 1 available trading partner and who's value was at an all time low.



Well
their top forward prospect that was pencilled into the top 9
their 2nd-3rd best d prospect thought to be bottom pairing ready but without much upside
their first

Kapenen was not their top prospect ( nor was he penciled in to their top 9), and Harrington was a meh prospect. You throw in the 2nd round pick that Toronto added plus the retention. Also lets not forget, Kessel is a better player.

 

[Liferleafer]

Toronto retained on that deal, and the term is actually a value boost compared to JVR who is gone is less than 2 seasons.

Lol...when the Leafs were looking to move Kessel/Dion the term on their contracts were thought to be huge problems....now that they are gone...the term is a huge benefit. Round and round we go....

 

[Ducks in a row]

Why not there is potential to resign JVR and fowler... its a quick solution to losing someone to vegas and it gives our Forward lines a much needed boost in depth, plus Montour/Theodore get a permant spot, to make a run at a cup this season.

Sure potential to sign both exists but JVR will want a nice raise as will Fowler do you think we will really sign both long term? JVR is going to end up being here for a short time (wanting to test free agency or getting a expensive contract we can't/wouldn't pay) I don't see any way we end up signing him long term. Vatanen shouldn't be traded for JVR unless he has a new contract already signed that we can afford and would take on the problem then becomes his value would be different when he isn't a UFA to be anymore after that new contract. If we are trading Vatanen we need someone signed longer then JVR currently is signed for or is RFA with multiple cost controlled years.

 

[liquiduck]

Lol...when the Leafs were looking to move Kessel/Dion the term on their contracts were thought to be huge problems....now that they are gone...the term is a huge benefit. Round and round we go....

Dion yes. Kessel, he was 27 at the time of the trade. How is 8 years a problem when Tor is retaining 15% of his salary? It's certainly not more of a problem than JVR being a ufa that Anaheim can't afford in 1.5 years.

I also didn't say it was a "huge benefit", but I guess if the hyperbole fits your narrative.

 

[Liferleafer]

Dion yes. Kessel, he was 27 at the time of the trade. How is 8 years a problem when Tor is retaining 15% of his salary? It's certainly not more of a problem than JVR being a ufa that Anaheim can't afford in 1.5 years.

I also didn't say it was a "huge benefit", but I guess if the hyperbole fits your narrative.

You called Kessel's term a "value boost", venture back to the pre trade threads....it was never considered a benefit. Kessel also had 1 team he would go to...the fact we got what we did was a miracle.

 

[liquiduck]

You called Kessel's term a "value boost", venture back to the pre trade threads....it was never considered a benefit. Kessel also had 1 team he would go to...the fact we got what we did was a miracle.

Value boost != "huge benefit".
1.5 years of JVR is not returning a better package than the one 8 years of 15% retained Kessel brought back.

 

[4thline]

Kapenen was not their top prospect ( nor was he penciled in to their top 9), and Harrington was a meh prospect. You throw in the 2nd round pick that Toronto added plus the retention. Also lets not forget, Kessel is a better player.

Top forward prospect, and yes he was on both accounts. His skill almost got him on the team at 18 despite being clearly not ready, at 19 going onto a team with clear holes at wing it was his spot to lose.

 

[liquiduck]

Top forward prospect, and yes he was on both accounts. His skill almost got him on the team at 18 despite being clearly not ready, at 19 going onto a team with clear holes at wing it was his spot to lose.

And yet 1.5 years later he's still in the AHL in a organization that had open roster spots up front all over the place, while the Penguins just won the cup largely due to having the best group of forwards in the NHL.

 

[Halla]

Yea, there is no way Anaheim gives up two of it's top 4 prospects for JVR. What did Pitt give up to get Kessel?

are you trying to compare a guy with 7 years left at 8 mil to a guy with 2 at 4.25?

they gave up their best prospect, a 1st, a roster player (moved for a 2nd), another prospect (moved for rychel), so it was a pretty decent return.

 

[4thline]

Value boost != "huge benefit".
1.5 years of JVR is not returning a better package than the one 8 years of 15% retained Kessel brought back.

It will/ would be very comparable. you're completely underestimating the combinations impact of the fact that the Pens were the only game in town, Kessel was coming off his worst season in years and looked like a bum from christmas on, people were questioning whether his conditioning had cost him a step and if he would ever regain form, would he be worth that contract the next year let alone year 6...

Just a whole lot of underestimating, general revisionist history lol.

 

[Halla]

Kapenen was not their top prospect ( nor was he penciled in to their top 9), and Harrington was a meh prospect. You throw in the 2nd round pick that Toronto added plus the retention. Also lets not forget, Kessel is a better player.

he absolutely was their top forward prospect.
also sure throw in the 2nd (pick 60), but dont forget about the NJD pick 71 we also got back. forgot about that one conveniently enough huh?

 

[Halla]

Lol...when the Leafs were looking to move Kessel/Dion the term on their contracts were thought to be huge problems....now that they are gone...the term is a huge benefit. Round and round we go....

this guy was probably saying leafs should just take what they can get for both guys.

Kessel ended up turning into Andersen,Kapanen, and Rychel.
also with Kessel in the lineup, we probably end up drafting a juolevi/sergachev instead of matthews. wouldnt want a do over on that trade

 

[4thline]

And yet 1.5 years later he's still in the AHL in a organization that had open roster spots up front all over the place, while the Penguins just won the cup largely due to having the best group of forwards in the NHL.

Actually no, very few open spots. Last year no rookies were given a chance to make the team out of camp, and this year was a tough top-9 to crack. Especially given Babcocks very strict line structure in terms of balancing offensive players with grinders. Not beating out Nylander and Marner is not a black mark against him lol. He's going to make a lot of people look silly, a couple mediocre WJC's and a year in the shadow of a couple of the best prospects of the league and suddenly a guy that many considered in contention for best Euro in his draft is meh. Still right up there with the Fiala/Vrana level guys.

And lol they won the cup based on a lightning in a bottle mixture of two players with kessel giving them a legimate 3rd scoring line, a mobile d-core matching their up tempo style, a lights out rookie goalie. and having two all-star centres that could carry high speed rookies to success. It's a complete counterfactual but in all likelihood Kap makes that team out of camp and no one knows Connor Sheary's name

 

[Halla]

And yet 1.5 years later he's still in the AHL in a organization that had open roster spots up front all over the place, while the Penguins just won the cup largely due to having the best group of forwards in the NHL.

He turned 20 this summer....and he leads the AHL in goals

didnt make the NHL as a 19 year old...must be terrible!

also 24 games = 1/2 a year?

 

[liquiduck]

He turned 20 this summer....and he leads the AHL in goals

didnt make the NHL as a 19 year old...must be terrible!

also 24 games = 1/2 a year?

Most teams have hit the 30 game mark( or are about too), which is more than a 3rd of the season. I didn't say Kapanen was terrible. Leafs really love their hyperboles don't they?

I'm just skeptical he would have made Pitts club last year, which is what's being claimed right now. Anyways, that's besides the point, my point is there is no way JVR returns a package from Anaheim including 2 of its top 4 prospects.

 

[liquiduck]

he absolutely was their top forward prospect.
also sure throw in the 2nd (pick 60), but dont forget about the NJD pick 71 we also got back. forgot about that one conveniently enough huh?

Nope didn't forget it at all. Or did you forget the other 2 leafs players that were thrown into that deal as well?

 

[liquiduck]

Actually no, very few open spots. Last year no rookies were given a chance to make the team out of camp, and this year was a tough top-9 to crack. Especially given Babcocks very strict line structure in terms of balancing offensive players with grinders. Not beating out Nylander and Marner is not a black mark against him lol. He's going to make a lot of people look silly, a couple mediocre WJC's and a year in the shadow of a couple of the best prospects of the league and suddenly a guy that many considered in contention for best Euro in his draft is meh. Still right up there with the Fiala/Vrana level guys.

And lol they won the cup based on a lightning in a bottle mixture of two players with kessel giving them a legimate 3rd scoring line, a mobile d-core matching their up tempo style, a lights out rookie goalie. and having two all-star centres that could carry high speed rookies to success. It's a complete counterfactual but in all likelihood Kap makes that team out of camp and no one knows Connor Sheary's name

Why do you keep telling me I'm saying Kapenen is meh? Kapenen holds no more value than a guy like Montour( maybe less), and leafs fans are asking for Larsson too ( an even better prospect)for 1.5 years of a lesser player in JVR? Yea no.

 

[dracom]

Why do Anaheim/Toronto threads always end this way? It's always ends with both sides undervaluing the other sides prospects while also overvaluing their own prospects.

Kapanen looks great in the AHL, as do Montour and Larsson (in the swedish league). There still just prospects though. Kap is not garunteed to be a top 6/elite player like some Toronto fans keep suggesting, same goes for Montour and Larsson. Their values are similar.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Ducks are not trading Silf he is an outstanding 2 way winger, him and Kesler are 2/3 of one of the top shutdown/two way lines in the league.

the JVR thing has passed for the time being, maybe re-visited at the TDL. I know I'd like to see Rakell on a lower line to spread out the scoring but Ritchie and Kase are playing pretty well right now so hopefully it comes from them.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I love how underrated and flamed jvr gets on these boards :p. That said, anh doesn't do this. Silf is a good player in his own right, Montour can't be just a sweetner.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I love how underrated and flamed jvr gets on these boards :p. That said, anh doesn't do this. Silf is a good player in his own right, Montour can't be just a sweetner.

Youd think he was cam fowler.


I think jvr is a good fit and has a good contract, problem is we have to make a move without losing a forward which leaves defense.. vatanen and fowler straight across are fair value but moving fowler is bad on anaheims part, id be okay with vatanen.

No way we can move 2 of theodore montour and larsson in same trade, and honestly id argue 2 of them combined are valued higher than jvr.

I would do something like vatanen for jvr, montour + 1st for jvr (has to be some sort of cap taken back)... i value theodore and larsson higher than montour... not sure if i consider them for jvr mostly cause he only has a lil time left on contract.