Confirmed with Link: Torey Krug (7 years @ $6.5m)

[ezcreepin]

The main point was regarding Petro's kids and locking in somewhere long term. I bet his kids won't even attend middle school in Vegas.

Then why would you assume he'd have his kids go to middle school here? Lmao you could use that same logic for every player every time they signed anywhere for any given circumstance forever. It doesn't matter if they do or don't, it's what he plans on right now in this very moment. That's all that matters to him.

 

[EastonBlues22]

They had enough money as it was to stay right here and raise their kids.

Correct.

What they didn't have was control over staying here to raise their kids if they signed with the Blues.

Which is what they now have in Vegas.

 

[mike1320]

Then why would you assume he'd have his kids go to middle school here? Lmao you could use that same logic for every player every time they signed anywhere for any given circumstance forever. It doesn't matter if they do or don't, it's what he plans on right now in this very moment. That's all that matters to him.

Because his wife is from here. What ties does he have to Vegas, besides the next handful of years?

 

[mike1320]

Correct.

What they didn't have was control over staying here to raise their kids if they signed with the Blues.

Which is what they now have in Vegas.

Did he not have an offer that included security on the final years of his contract?

 

[EastonBlues22]

Did he not have an offer that included security on the final years of his contract?

To some extent or another, depending on your interpretation of what Armstrong said (and he was pretty darn vague about it).

The years before the final years of his contract kind of matter too, though, no?

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Again, his kids will be less than 10 years old before his contract expires. I don't know the exact numbers, but most kids don't make lifelong friends at that age unless they live in a tiny village

Plenty do at that age and it really doesnt matter if they do or not.

Whether a kid has friends that will stau their entire lifetime or friends that they wont talk to much after graduation, if you rip a 10 year old from their school with their current friends(which we will assume might not have been lifelong for your argument) and move them to an entire different city where they know no one, it is still upsetting for amy 10 year old to go through.

 

[Xerloris]

Haha well now I'm the one who doesn't believe someone is being genuine. There is no way DA didnt have Krug circled as a possible target if Petro didnt sign before FA started. No way, no how. DA is too slick for that. And you're way too gullible if you believe him.

It was said until he knew Petro was not an option. We have no idea when Doug knew that but it was definitely was before we did.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Can you guys imagine where we would be right now if Lehtera or Berglund had a NMC?

Strange/terrible comparison.

We’re talking about giving a top 5 defenseman a NMC here. Your team’s MVP. A guy you’ll have zero interest in moving in the next 5 years.

Not 3rd line forwards that clearly have no business asking for a NMC because they can be replaced with ease.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

It's basically a power shift reversal from the first (and most productive) half of a player's career.

Player has zero say in who drafts his rights, and almost no bargaining power until whenever the team decides to offer a contract that buys out some UFA years. The only leverage the players has is to refuse to play...which is really no leverage at all, because he has a finite number of years as an athlete to make money, and wasting them hurts himself more than anyone, thus the majority of the risk falls on them. Teams have basically total control over every player that comes into the league for the best years of their career, and teams can dump said players at any point if they aren't happy with the players having no control over the situation.

Flip to the back half of a player's career, and a select few have enough talent and accomplishments to ask for a full NTC and expect to receive one from somebody on the open market. Not most players. Very, very few. And nobody is forcing any team to give it if they don't want...but they aren't going to be getting those elite players if they don't take that risk (assuming that clause is important to the player).

I have zero sympathy for management here. They have a sweet deal, and they know it. At some point they should be expected to shoulder some risks in a free market setting, and at some point players should actually have most or all of a say in where they play out the twilight of their career.

Just so well said.

Pietrangelo is the guy Armstrong should have made an exception for.

Armstrong’s rationale for not giving out the NMC was so poorly stated in his interview with 101 ESPN yesterday. First, he said he didn’t agree that he would never give one out. Immediate face palm there.
Then his reasoning for hating NMCs is simply because it gives the player the power to act however he wants without repercussion. Ok fine. But then he said, as we would all agree, this wasn’t a concern with Pietrangelo. Massive facepalm.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Krug really stood out in the cup. Glad to have him

He’s mediocre at even strength and doesn’t play the PK.

6.5 million is a lot for a guy who is average for 85% of the game.

Hopefully this goes better than the last 6.5 mil, Top 4 dman we picked up from the Eastern Conference.

 

[mike1320]

Plenty do at that age and it really doesnt matter if they do or not.

Whether a kid has friends that will stau their entire lifetime or friends that they wont talk to much after graduation, if you rip a 10 year old from their school with their current friends(which we will assume might not have been lifelong for your argument) and move them to an entire different city where they know no one, it is still upsetting for amy 10 year old to go through.

I'm sure that have a father that's worth over $100 million dollars will ease the blow.

 

[Spektre]

Why? What does it matter?

I can't predict what might change, or when, and how that might or might not affect his desire to leave, and I'm not sure why you want me to make a wild guess. I can only say for certain that he's not moving unless it's on his terms. Even if he's bought out, which is super unlikely, he's still picking his next location, and he doesn't need to leave the city at all if he doesn't want to. He has more than enough money to live out the rest of his life in comfort.

I'm not asking you to predict the future or I'd be asking for powerball #'s

The point is that by and large NHL rosters are very volatile. They always have been. The odds are not in Pietrangelo's favor of playing out the duration of his contract in Vegas. By acknowledging this, it's weird that taking a stand on having a full NMC is the hill to die on from the player's perspective. That's my point. The stability he chose to leave St. Louis for isn't set in stone and most likely won't even actually become a reality (7 years in the same place).

 

[Xerloris]

Strange/terrible comparison.

We’re talking about giving a top 5 defenseman a NMC here. Your team’s MVP. A guy you’ll have zero interest in moving in the next 5 years.

Not 3rd line forwards that clearly have no business asking for a NMC because they can be replaced with ease.

It's really not. We have no idea what Petros ability will be 5 years down the road. He could have a Fabbri knee injury that he never fully recovers from and his contract is a boat anchor destroying the team.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm not asking you to predict the future or I'd be asking for powerball #'s

The point is that by and large NHL rosters are very volatile. They always have been. The odds are not in Pietrangelo's favor of playing out the duration of his contract in Vegas. By acknowledging this, it's weird that taking a stand on having a full NMC is the hill to die on from the player's perspective. That's my point. The stability he chose to leave St. Louis for isn't set in stone and most likely won't even actually become a reality (7 years in the same place).

There's a few different types of volatility in play here. Internal volatility (call-ups, injuries, etc.), trade volatility (which most players can't prevent), compliance/performance volatility (buyouts, waivers, etc.), and FA volatility (players choice).

Altogether it adds up to a lot of roster turnover, but very little of that is relevant to a player with a NMC. The turnover "odds" no longer apply to him, which is why that's a hill to die on.

 

[EastonBlues22]

It's really not. We have no idea what Petros ability will be 5 years down the road. He could have a Fabbri knee injury that he never fully recovers from and his contract is a boat anchor destroying the team.

So we make the team worse now to prevent it from possibly being worse in the future?

Sound plan, especially when they turned right around and signed a big contract with a sizeable amount of back end risk, anyway.

Less back end risk than Pietrangelo, but for a worse player, who is likely to age worse on top of that, and who gives the team a worse chance of winning now.

If that's your compensation for evading the incremental risk of Pietrangelo's contract, then it kind of sucks.

 

[Spektre]

There's a few different types of volatility in play here. Internal volatility (call-ups, injuries, etc.), trade volatility (which most players can't prevent), compliance/performance volatility (buyouts, waivers, etc.), and FA volatility (players choice).

Altogether it adds up to a lot of roster turnover, but very little of that is relevant to a player with a NMC. The turnover "odds" no longer apply to him, which is why that's a hill to die on.

I already gave reasons why players don't wind up staying with a team even if they have a NMC. I'm just trying to get your opinion. I know we have 7 years of wait and see but in your opinion, will Pietrangelo spend all 7 years with Vegas?

 

[EastonBlues22]

I already gave reasons why players don't wind up staying with a team even if they have a NMC. I'm just trying to get your opinion. I know we have 7 years of wait and see but in your opinion, will Pietrangelo spend all 7 years with Vegas?

If he wants to, he will. That's the best answer I can give.

 

[Em etah Eh]

It's really not. We have no idea what Petros ability will be 5 years down the road. He could have a Fabbri knee injury that he never fully recovers from and his contract is a boat anchor destroying the team.

Same thing could happen with Schenn or Krug or Faulk. Any of those deals can become a boat anchor too. Are you of the mind set that Armstrong should never sign a top tier UFA? They will always have the potential to become boat anchors as long as they are getting max term.

 

[Xerloris]

Same thing could happen with Schenn or Krug or Faulk. Any of those deals can become a boat anchor too. Are you of the mind set that Armstrong should never sign a top tier UFA? They will always have the potential to become boat anchors as long as they are getting max term.

How many of them have NMC's?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'm sure that have a father that's worth over $100 million dollars will ease the blow.

Dude come on. Little kids don’t give a shit about how much money their parents have. You know what they do care about? Being kids and doing the things kids should be doing. If you don’t understand the desire for stability for your children then there’s really no discussion to even be had here.

 

[mike1320]

Dude come on. Little kids don’t give a shit about how much money their parents have. You know what they do care about? Being kids and doing the things kids should be doing. If you don’t understand the desire for stability for your children then there’s really no discussion to even be had here.

I totally understand that. But I'm sure you also realize that his children live a totally different lifestyle compared to yours or mine. 2 of my kids had to change school districts during their pre high school days and they adjusted just fine. Kids are pretty resilient at that age

 

[Spektre]

If he wants to, he will. That's the best answer I can give.

That's not necessarily true. He doesn't have to agree to be bought out and a trade scenario could come up where he doesn't necessarily want to be traded but agrees due to work environment etc.. I think you get the overall point I'm making.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I totally understand that. But I'm sure you also realize that his children live a totally different lifestyle compared to yours or mine. 2 of my kids had to change school districts during their pre high school days and they adjusted just fine. Kids are pretty resilient at that age

I’m not saying that changing schools or making a move is 100% guaranteed to be damaging, but it’s also entirely true that on the whole stability is much better for children than mass disruption of their lives.

 

[DeuceNine]

Armstrong’s rationale for not giving out the NMC was so poorly stated in his interview with 101 ESPN yesterday. First, he said he didn’t agree that he would never give one out. Immediate face palm there.
Then his reasoning for hating NMCs is simply because it gives the player the power to act however he wants without repercussion. Ok fine. But then he said, as we would all agree, this wasn’t a concern with Pietrangelo. Massive facepalm.

OK, so what's your implication here? That Petro was being difficult and Army couldn't handle him, or that Army was just being a jerk and not caring about his family? Seems you're asserting some nefarious activity here which I don't see. I get you're obviously not thrilled with the outcome, but I think Petro was decided and Army knew it to such a degree that he had to make calls up to a year ago in preparation.

 

[mike1320]

I’m not saying that changing schools or making a move is 100% guaranteed to be damaging, but it’s also entirely true that on the whole stability is much better for children than mass disruption of their lives.

I'm sure there's quite a disparity between ultra wealthy people moving their kids for the sake of more wealth versus, say a poor family uprooting their children for the sake of not becoming homeless.