Proposal: TOR X Carolina - No Kapanen

[Ahoy there]

Yes, and if the Canes want a player they will have to pay as well. As every team will.

What are you talking about?? Pesce or Hamilton IS the payment! You feel us bark back when you want a top 2/3 defenseman of ours for a bottom 6 forward or for a player with 50 games under his belt. Good grief man! Lil ISN'T paying for it, nor Brown, nor Kap, heck Z is trying to get me to pay twice lol!

 

[GoldiFox]

Because they are close to reaching the Rangers record for Stanley Cup drought, and want to know what it's like to actually have a winner play on their team

Canes Captain Justin Williams won a Cup in Carolina and has 3 to his name
Canes Head Coach Rod Brind'Amour was the Captain of that Cup winning team

 

[StephenPeat]

Impressive, Canes gives up 2 rhd and gets nothing they really need.

Also get nothing of more than nominal value at best. Impressive.

People defending this saying the Leafs are giving up their future, WOW? The delusion is unbelievable. This is a burning tire fire covered in dog shit for the Canes. Someone defending Zaitsev as an exchange part for Hamilton or Pesce? Oh but replacing Johnsson for Kapanen if Ferland is included? Do Leaf fans think the rest of the league is a farm system for the Leafs AND a repository for their garbage. How was this not an insta-lock?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Canes Captain Justin Williams won a Cup in Carolina and has 3 to his name
Canes Head Coach Rod Brind'Amour was the Captain of that Cup winning team

He was talking about the leafs.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Because they are close to reaching the Rangers record for Stanley Cup drought, and want to know what it's like to actually have a winner play on their team

I mean there's a difference between winners and Stanley cup winners but I'm guessing you mean Stanley Cup winners.
Ron Hainsey and Jake Muzzin are here so I think they count. Marleau has like 130 games of playoff experience so I'd count that. The rest of the team is like 21-24 outside of those I named and maybe 4 or 5 more?

 

[GoldiFox]

He was talking about the leafs.

Ahh - I read "Stanley Cup drought" as "Playoff drought" - given that the Canes are coming up on 10 years

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Also get nothing of more than nominal value at best. Impressive.

People defending this saying the Leafs are giving up their future, WOW? The delusion is unbelievable. This is a burning tire fire covered in dog **** for the Canes. Someone defending Zaitsev as an exchange part for Hamilton or Pesce? Oh but replacing Johnsson for Kapanen if Ferland is included? Do Leaf fans think the rest of the league is a farm system for the Leafs AND a repository for their garbage. How was this not an insta-lock?

Don't blame all of us some of us have real logic. Look, Johnsson is great, a future 1st and sandin would also be great. Bracco is a PPG 21 year old in the AHL with all types of playmaking potential. However, Zaitsev in this is a stretch at best and this proposal would be good enough for one of the two (without Z) but not even close for both. I don't expect canes fans to sell low on this website but there are pieces here of REAL value. Not Zaitsev. He's gotta stop being brought up.

 

[Ahoy there]

Well, that's a steaming load:
Teravainen's best season prior to being trade 13 G 22 A for 35 Pts in 78 games
Kapanen's best season to date 18 G 16 A for 34 Pts in only 56 games. Extrapolated that comes damn close to 50 pts.

No argument... but using your logic, don't you have to look at the other 1/2 of what he said? If a $4mill cap dump brought a player like TT with it (at his numbers from that time,) don't you think a $20mill cap dump will need to bring a better player? Kind of along the lines of the numbers you extrapolated out for Kap????

I'm picking on you, but we all do it. Ignore the side of the argument that weakens our own.

 

[Ahoy there]

Pesce + 2nd for Johnsson

I hope you're ignored and do not receive the satisfaction of eliciting the response desired by your comments

 

[StephenPeat]

A realistic view of the Leaf assets in the OP;
Zaitsev: poorly-disguised Cap Dump
Bracco: undersized project AHL prospect
Sandin: decent prospect (B-level)
2020 1st: Late 1st
Johnsson: 3RD Liner in most NHL teams

For two Top-4 RHD this is a pipe dream and by that I mean something someone dreamed up in a sewage pipe for the Canes.

Honestly as a Neutral party surrogate for the Canes, I’d have a hard time trading Hamilton or Pesce for any of those Leaf assets, combining them to stretch value is videogame stuff.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What are you talking about?? Pesce or Hamilton IS the payment! You feel us bark back when you want a top 2/3 defenseman of ours for a bottom 6 forward or for a player with 50 games under his belt. Good grief man! Lil ISN'T paying for it, nor Brown, nor Kap, heck Z is trying to get me to pay twice lol!

I didn't make the proposal!

 

[Brock Radunske]

I know it hurts the Leafs centre depth but I'd be open to a Kadri for Hamilton/Pesce trade.
The Leafs could then try to move Nylander to Center or even try to take a big swing at someone like E. Staal.

Toronto

Hyman - Tavares - Marner----------or----------Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Matthews - Johnsson-----------------Marleau - Matthews - Nylander
Brown - Nylander - Kapanen--------------------Johnsson - Staal - Kapanen
Lindholm - GOAT - ? - Moore-------------------Lindholm - GOAT - Brown

Rielly - Pesce/Hamilton*
Muzzin - Gardiner
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey

Carolina

Niederreiter - Aho - Williams
Ferland - Kadri - TT
Svech - Wallmark - McGinn
Foegele - Martinook - Maenalanen

Slavin - Hamilton/Pesce
Faulk - De Hann
TVR - ?

Note: That bolded line would be a handful to play against.

I know Kadri is a huge part of the Leafs and people are going to hate this but both of those line-ups look improved to me


*If it's Hamilton, the cap will need to be balanced a bit.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

A realistic view of the Leaf assets in the OP;
Zaitsev: poorly-disguised Cap Dump
Bracco: undersized project AHL prospect
Sandin: decent prospect (B-level)
2020 1st: Late 1st
Johnsson: 3RD Liner in most NHL teams

For two Top-4 RHD this is a pipe dream and by that I mean something someone dreamed up in a sewage pipe for the Canes.

Honestly as a Neutral party surrogate for the Canes, I’d have a hard time trading Hamilton or Pesce for any of those Leaf assets, combining them to stretch value is videogame stuff.

Zaitsev: Agreed
Bracco: Undersized isn't a factor anymore. 21 year old PPG winger that can run a PP. I'd consider him a B to B+ and probably ready next year.
Sandin: Looks phenomenal so far for a #29 pick. Producing well too before he sprained his wrist. I'd say he's more than a B but to each his own.
2020 1st: Yeah, hopefully.
Johnsson: 3rd liner maybe in his first full NHL season but he's the Leafs clear best LW and has upside of a 25/25 player which I'd say is a fair estimate.

Still a bad deal for 2 top 4 RHD on great deals but just giving you the value from the perspective of a Leafs fan who watches the Marlies quite a bit. Johnsson also has looked like one of our best players recently so there may be some recency bias to my opinion on him.

 

[StephenPeat]

Don't blame all of us some of us have real logic. Look, Johnsson is great, a future 1st and sandin would also be great. Bracco is a PPG 21 year old in the AHL with all types of playmaking potential. However, Zaitsev in this is a stretch at best and this proposal would be good enough for one of the two (without Z) but not even close for both. I don't expect canes fans to sell low on this website but there are pieces here of REAL value. Not Zaitsev. He's gotta stop being brought up.

Correction: Johnsson is GOOD, a future Late 1st and Sandin would also be GOOD. Bracco is undersized, hasn’t played an NHL game at 21yrs old, is a decent AHL prospect on a routinely better-than-average AHL team with questionable potential in higher leagues where his scoring is unlikely to translate.

These are not pieces teams trade; critical, contributing, Top Half of the lineup NHL players (in their primes) for unless they are rebuilding (the Canes shouldn’t be) or their hand is being forced (it isn’t).

 

[Jerkob Slavin]

Counter:

Brock McGinn + Janne Kuokkanen + Jake Bean + Julien Gauthier + Roland McKeown + Scott Darling (Cap)
For
Marner

I heard piles of pennies get quarters these days.

No, thank you.

It wasn't a serious offer. It was a joke. We'd never disrespect TML fans by typing up ridiculous manure like that and actually trying to sell it to you. But wading through garbage proposals like this one is evidently the price Hurricanes fans have to pay simply because we have one too many of a valuable asset. Delusional fans seem to think we would be willing to literally give away our BEST RHD just because we have one too many.

When we turn down offers that make us worse defensively and offer no real upgrade offensively, folks get offended and start slinging insults like, "enjoy mediocrity" or "enjoy missing the playoffs again." It's like arguing with a 5 year old.

 

[ECanuck]

as a Leaf fan , giddy up lol

this isn't going to go over too well with Canes fans

Really, the only guy that's of big interest in terms of age and contract is Pesce. Basically, Sandin, 1st, Andreas and Kappy for Pesce. Yeah ok.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Correction: Johnsson is GOOD, a future Late 1st and Sandin would also be GOOD. Bracco is undersized, hasn’t played an NHL game at 21yrs old, is a decent AHL prospect on a routinely better-than-average AHL team with questionable potential in higher leagues where his scoring is unlikely to translate.

These are not pieces teams trade; critical, contributing, Top Half of the lineup NHL players (in their primes) for unless they are rebuilding (the Canes shouldn’t be) or their hand is being forced (it isn’t).

Honestly do you know these players or is it a guess at their talents at best? The Marlies have been awful this season and yet Bracco is still PPG and people like Sandin routinely show so much for an 18 year old on North American ice for the first time. Also what more do you want from Johnsson? Dude will be a top 6 winger I'm just saying he's great I didn't mean he's Johnny Gaudreau.

Man I even said that this is an offer that the canes would be selling low but all of those pieces you'd get back (except Zaitsev) you'd be surprised by how they are actually good I guess. This is an offer that would be an overpayment for one of those 2 D men but an underpayment for both.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Really, the only guy that's of big interest in terms of age and contract is Pesce. Basically, Sandin, 1st, Andreas and Kappy for Pesce. Yeah ok.

You’ve just totally misrepresented the original offer to try to make it sound like it wasn’t bad for Carolina.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Smart by Leafs to try and trade Johnsson while he’s riding unsustainable shooting % and PDO.

 

[Jerkob Slavin]

After each game I'm more and more convinced if Carolina wants Kapanen or Johnsson it will be Pesce +, as skilled forward >> Defensive Dman

You'd be WRONG. Kapanen or Johnsson might get Faulk+, but I seriously doubt Pesce is obtainable unless it's Nylander coming back (after his bonus is paid). None of Carolina's fans want to move Pesce, who is our best RHD and 2nd best d-man overall. If we can see it, I am sure our management group can as well.

 

[ECanuck]

You’ve just totally misrepresented the original offer to try to make it sound like it wasn’t bad for Carolina.

I usually cut through the bullshit!

 

[ottomaddox]

Habs fan here. Not a Leafs homer. Originally didn't have Ferland, and had Johnsson over Kapanen but had to change it last minute because it was really uneven. Please fix title mods

To Toronto: Hamilton, Pesce, (Ferland)

To Carolina: Zaitsev, Bracco, Sandin, 2020 1st, Johnsson (Kapanen instead of A.J if Ferland is involved)

Still think the Leafs have to add here, just not sure how much more. Adding Liljegren wouldn't make it work considering the Canes owner is gung-ho on getting forwards.

Thoughts?

However you like to shape it, you're basically punting two Leaf defenseman (regulars).

Why wouldn't Dubas see Hamilton as a risky personality reclamation project?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Smart by Leafs to try and trade Johnsson while he’s riding unsustainable shooting % and PDO.

you say that, but look around the league this year and see how many guys are riding numbers higher than his, this year has been an anomaly

also, this is a Habs fan proposal

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I usually cut through the bull****!

No, what you’ve done is completely misrepresent something.

Kapanen AND Johnsson were never both included in the proposal and you’ve removed Hamilton and Ferland from the canes side.

If you want to call that “cutting through the bullshit” then have at it.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

you say that, but look around the league this year and see how many guys are riding numbers higher than his, this year has been an anomaly

also, this is a Habs fan proposal

Ya, a Habs fan who I don’t believe has returned to this thread since creating it. I think he got what he wanted.