Proposal: TOR-MIN

[Dr Jan Itor]

Dermott isn't anything close to a need for Minnesota, now or in the future.

 

[Dache]

Honestly, the comparison between Dermott & Greenway is probably not that far apart.

Both 2015 draft picks, Dermott's 2 months older. Greenway is a big-bodied, "middle 6" winger. Dermott is an average-sized, puckmoving 4-5 defenceman. Greenway's played 222 NHL games, Dermott, 223.

You can make the argument that Greenway is more valuable -- there's a lot less guys like him in the league. You can make the case that Dermott is more valuable given that he's got a 2-year deal at $1.5m versus 1 year at $2.1m; that defencemen generally take longer to develop, and that he hasn't necessarily had the opportunities / openings that Greenway has.

Then there's the question of Ritchie, obviously not having a great year, but he's still a guy who scores goals at a 50% higher rate than Greenway has over his career. That 2nd year may be appealing to a team that isn't necessarily the most attractive destination for UFAs. Certainly not a ton of value, but if you're the Wild, this could be a situation that is kind of a no-lose where you trade Greenway, get an equivalent value young defenceman, plus a potential Greenway replacement. Maybe instead of picks, it's Greenway & Merrill for Ritchie & Dermott.

What opportunity has Dermott not received? The leafs d isn’t bad now but it was for the majority of his time there. If he had shown any indication of being a top 4 d man he would have had top 4 minutes. Cody Ceci was given top 4 minutes for crying out loud. Them being close in games is largely due to Dermott playing in 17-18 and Greenway developing. Greenway has shown consistent upward trend the last 3 years we’re Dermott has been stagnant at best and more likely regressing. Ritchie while showing promise in promise early in his career seems to have topped out around a 40pt player. His goal scoring (8.7 shooting % .16 gpg ) being comparable to Greenway (8.8% .12 gpg) is not 50% higher unless you’re just going by raw totals and not counting that Ritchie has played more seasons. Even their ice times are comparable.

 

[heisenbergsitti]

Honestly, the comparison between Dermott & Greenway is probably not that far apart.

Both 2015 draft picks, Dermott's 2 months older. Greenway is a big-bodied, "middle 6" winger. Dermott is an average-sized, puckmoving 4-5 defenceman. Greenway's played 222 NHL games, Dermott, 223.

You can make the argument that Greenway is more valuable -- there's a lot less guys like him in the league. You can make the case that Dermott is more valuable given that he's got a 2-year deal at $1.5m versus 1 year at $2.1m; that defencemen generally take longer to develop, and that he hasn't necessarily had the opportunities / openings that Greenway has.

Then there's the question of Ritchie, obviously not having a great year, but he's still a guy who scores goals at a 50% higher rate than Greenway has over his career. That 2nd year may be appealing to a team that isn't necessarily the most attractive destination for UFAs. Certainly not a ton of value, but if you're the Wild, this could be a situation that is kind of a no-lose where you trade Greenway, get an equivalent value young defenceman, plus a potential Greenway replacement. Maybe instead of picks, it's Greenway & Merrill for Ritchie & Dermott.

I love people that know nothing about Minnesota saying it's not free agent destination. Jon Merrill is better than Dermott. Greenway is two fold better than richie. Wild also has boldy, Beckman and connor dewar along with swayney in AHL..so no , Minnesota wouldn't care one iota about the proposal, or what you thought

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I love people that know nothing about Minnesota saying it's not free agent destination. Jon Merrill is better than Dermott. Greenway is two fold better than richie. Wild also has boldy, Beckman and connor dewar along with swayney in AHL..so no , Minnesota wouldn't care one iota about the proposal, or what you thought

To be quite honest I don't see the appeal of Greenway. Hes a big body and thats about it. Hes a third or 4th line guy on a cup contender with very average numbers unless u play him much higher in the line up with better players. Hes not worth a lot and won't be in Minnesota next year. I'd pass unless he cam cheap.

 

[seanlinden]

What opportunity has Dermott not received? The leafs d isn’t bad now but it was for the majority of his time there. If he had shown any indication of being a top 4 d man he would have had top 4 minutes. Cody Ceci was given top 4 minutes for crying out loud. Them being close in games is largely due to Dermott playing in 17-18 and Greenway developing. Greenway has shown consistent upward trend the last 3 years we’re Dermott has been stagnant at best and more likely regressing. Ritchie while showing promise in promise early in his career seems to have topped out around a 40pt player. His goal scoring (8.7 shooting % .16 gpg ) being comparable to Greenway (8.8% .12 gpg) is not 50% higher unless you’re just going by raw totals and not counting that Ritchie has played more seasons. Even their ice times are comparable.

The ability to play in the top 4 on the left side consistently; with a partner that's actually suited to match his game.

Dermott's development curve was going along more than fine until the Leafs traded for Jake Muzzin. The problem for Dermott, is that his game is too similar to a better version of him (Rielly), and younger guys with perceived higher upside in Sandin/Liljegren. You need a mix of defencemen to be successful, and the Leafs have always been (at least for the last ~5 years) too heavily weighted towards guys like that.

 

[Dache]

The ability to play in the top 4 on the left side consistently; with a partner that's actually suited to match his game.

Dermott's development curve was going along more than fine until the Leafs traded for Jake Muzzin. The problem for Dermott, is that his game is too similar to a better version of him (Rielly), and younger guys with perceived higher upside in Sandin/Liljegren. You need a mix of defencemen to be successful, and the Leafs have always been (at least for the last ~5 years) too heavily weighted towards guys like that.

If his requirements are that specific to consider it a real chance then there is an issue. Almost no teams are going to give him the ice time that requires with a custom tailored d partner for an extended period of time on a whim.

 

[Sinbad]

Isn’t Greenway a 3rd liner?

Not according to you, the Leafs are going to use him on their 2nd line with Tavares and Nylander. On top of that you want Minnesota to add a 4th round pick to equal up the exchange for Dermott who in your words is a bottom pairing d-man.

So a 2nd line winger and a 4th round pick for a bottom pair d-man. PLUS the wild get the good fortune of adding another 4th round pick for an under achieving big man just to make the deal work financially for the Leafs… damn how could Minnesota say no?

 

[EK392000]

Not according to you, the Leafs are going to use him on their 2nd line with Tavares and Nylander. On top of that you want Minnesota to add a 4th round pick to equal up the exchange for Dermott who in your words is a bottom pairing d-man.

So a 2nd line winger and a 4th round pick for a bottom pair d-man. PLUS the wild get the good fortune of adding another 4th round pick for an under achieving big man just to make the deal work financially for the Leafs… damn how could Minnesota say no?

Playing on the second line doesn't make him a second line player. Leafs just don't have depth at LW. Didn't Zack Kassian play alongside McDavid for a bit? Should you pay the price of a first liner for him?

You are simultaneously overvaluing Greenway and undervaluing Dermott. If the trade doesn't work, it doesn't work. However, acting like the value of Greenway is far superior to Dermott's is delusional and disingenuous.

 

[AKL]

Playing on the second line doesn't make him a second line player. Leafs just don't have depth at LW. Didn't Zack Kassian play alongside McDavid for a bit? Should you pay the price of a first liner for him?

You are simultaneously overvaluing Greenway and undervaluing Dermott. If the trade doesn't work, it doesn't work. However, acting like the value of Greenway is far superior to Dermott's is delusional and disingenuous.

I think the big difference here is that when Greenway is on top of his game, he's a physical force and few can match what he can do, and when Dermott is on top of his game, he's a decent bottom pairing defenseman.

Let's look no further than your "reasons why each team does it" section:

Why Minnesota does it?
They add a puck-moving d man from the same draft that would easily slot into the top 6 and top 4 if need be. Ritchie was more for cap purposes but they get a big body back.

Why Toronto does it?
Upgrade on Ritchie at LW. Greenway is a playmaking power forward and would slot in nicely on the second line beside Tavares and Nylander. They also save some cap space.

Pros for Leafs: Upgrade on LW, good fit in your top six, save cap space, get two extra draft picks
Pros for Wild: Dermott is from the same draft as Greenway, "hey at least you get a big body still"

 

[Sinbad]

Playing on the second line doesn't make him a second line player. Leafs just don't have depth at LW. Didn't Zack Kassian play alongside McDavid for a bit? Should you pay the price of a first liner for him?

You are simultaneously overvaluing Greenway and undervaluing Dermott. If the trade doesn't work, it doesn't work. However, acting like the value of Greenway is far superior to Dermott's is delusional and disingenuous.

I’m not overvaluing Greenway; I’m not the one suggesting he should be placed on the Leafs 2nd line, that was you. I’m also not suggesting the value of Greenway is far superior to Dermott, I actually think one for one that would be a pretty fair trade. What is laughable is thinking Minnesota should give up anything, not to mention two 4th round picks to take Ritchie and his contract off the Leafs hands.