Proposal: TOR-MIN

[TheImpatientPanther]

He might be pushed out before then with the salary cap and the ELC's vying for forward spots.

His point total was inflated from the line he was playing on. Eriksson Ek and Foligno were doing most of the heavy lifting there, and both had crazy high shooting percentages, but Greenway is a good passer and when he's on he's great at getting and maintaining possession. He's a good skater, not great, not fast, but strong.

Don't expect 50 points from him. He can't shoot the puck to save his life. I'll be shocked if he ever eclipses the 15 goal mark. But a strong power-possession game is what you can expect from him when he's on. As others have said though, his main problem is consistency. When he's off though, he's pretty much worthless.

Even 12-15g/35-40pts is okay if contract makes sense.
But at that size, it's always the worry of decline in skating/speed.

 

[ToDavid]

with posts like this I'm sure Wild fans will fall all over themselves for Ritchie - especially in exchange for Greenway

Wheres the lie?

I never said anyone should be falling all over themselves for anyone. Just pointing out that these are two players who are very much in the same boat.

 

[Boondock]

Wheres the lie?

I never said anyone should be falling all over themselves for anyone. Just pointing out that these are two players who are very much in the same boat.

No one said anything about lies, but stats don't tell the entire picture. Over the past 3 seasons Neal Pionk has outscored Morgan Reilly by 16% while having equal defensive metrics - does this tell the whole story?

 

[AKL]

No one said anything about lies, but stats don't tell the entire picture. Over the past 3 seasons Neal Pionk has outscored Morgan Reilly by 16% while having equal defensive metrics - does this tell the whole story?

I'm glad you agree about adding context to stats outside of the scope of Boeser vs. Fiala

 

[Boondock]

I'm glad you agree about adding context to stats outside of the scope of Boeser vs. Fiala

it is context outside of stats that makes me prefer Boeser to Fiala. In the stats you provided those 3 years Minny out score Vancouver. With the high flying offense of the Wild why didn't he produce better?

 

[ToDavid]

No one said anything about lies, but stats don't tell the entire picture. Over the past 3 seasons Neal Pionk has outscored Morgan Reilly by 16% while having equal defensive metrics - does this tell the whole story?

I don't think that's all that surprising (despite your decision to ignore games played). Pionk is an excellent offensive defenseman. Regardless, there's a bit more room for context between top pairing defensemen than there is between depth forwards. If you're taking a bunch of penalties and not scoring, what are you doing?

 

[AKL]

it is context outside of stats that makes me prefer Boeser to Fiala. In the stats you provided those 3 years Minny out score Vancouver. With the high flying offense of the Wild why didn't he produce better?

The Wild outscored the Canucks as a whole by 7.7% during that time. Boeser's linemates outscored Fiala's linemates by 105%.

 

[Boondock]

The Wild outscored the Canucks as a whole by 7.7% during that time. Boeser's linemates outscored Fiala's linemates by 105%.

Fiala needs to learn how to use his teammates better...

 

[AKL]

Fiala needs to learn how to use his teammates better...

Your dedication to completely ignoring this context is admirable.

 

[saywut]

Ritchie doesn't work with our cap situation, would not claim on waivers.

Nothing really seems to align for a Dermott trade, Guerin doesn't trade picks(7th for Bjugstad is the only one where he didn't get a better pick back), there's been no urgency pushing Goligoski out of the line-up, and can probably sign a Dermott-level defender in free agency next year, age isn't a large factor with the group of LHD prospects currently in the system.

 

[Boondock]

Your dedication to completely ignoring this context is admirable.

I have said time after time, I have watched both players, I will take Boeser 10 times out of 10 over Fiala. He is the more natural goal scorer. His shot is better than Fiala's, he produces goals with a higher shot %, he is a bigger body. I like Boeser better and would not trade Fiala 1 for 1. That was the argument, I still feel the same way. Brock has 40 goal potential, Fiala does not in my opinion. I don't think you would find many people that given the chance would take Fiala over Boeser.

 

[AKL]

I have said time after time, I have watched both players, I will take Boeser 10 times out of 10 over Fiala. He is the more natural goal scorer. His shot is better than Fiala's, he produces goals with a higher shot %, he is a bigger body. I like Boeser better and would not trade Fiala 1 for 1. That was the argument, I still feel the same way. Brock has 40 goal potential, Fiala does not in my opinion. I don't think you would find many people that given the chance would take Fiala over Boeser.

Oh, I don't care if you prefer Boeser over Fiala, that part is fine, you just need to understand that you have no statistical support for most of the claims you make.

 

[Boondock]

Oh, I don't care if you prefer Boeser over Fiala, that part is fine, you just need to understand that you have no statistical support for most of the claims you make.

I would say differently. But you have your opinions, keep them.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Isn’t Greenway a 3rd liner?

A 3rd liner on one of the best lines in hockey last year

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Greenway is lost and is having a bad season because of it. He needs to be moved and would likely rebound from the change. But he's only 24 and is too good to give away. Ridiculous to think the Wild would have to add 2 picks to make this deal. Pass.

 

[LeafChief]

I'd say the value favours Toronto here. I'd do it.

Is Minnesota trying to move Greenway?

 

[Bazeek]

I'd say the value favours Toronto here. I'd do it.

Is Minnesota trying to move Greenway?

Not imminently, especially when he's had a rough start to the season and they're trying to keep prospects in Iowa for the time being.

He'll need an extension this summer though and the team will want to start opening up top-9 spots for guys like Boldy and Beckman. That plus the Wild's cap situation make it pretty clear that he'll be traded by the 2022 draft.

 

[LeafChief]

Not imminently, especially when he's had a rough start to the season and they're trying to keep prospects in Iowa for the time being.

He'll need an extension this summer though and the team will want to start opening up top-9 spots for guys like Boldy and Beckman. That plus the Wild's cap situation make it pretty clear that he'll be traded by the 2022 draft.

Boldy looks like a solid piece. Great draft pick. There was a Minnesota draftee on St. Cloud last year that looked pretty good as well. I remember seeing him while watching Miettinen.

Minnesota is building a nice squad. Do you know what the plans are with McBain and his potential to walk to UFA?

 

[AvroArrow]

Ritchie sucks ass, I don't know why anyone would want him to be quite honest. Dermott + cap dump for Greenway and two 4th rounders. I don't know much about Greenway, but he's a big boy. Leafs aren't in a position to trade Dermott though. It would mean Holl becomes a regular, and I dunno who our 7th D would be. Dermotts contract is nice for what he brings. Greenway is probably the best player in the deal but our blue line situation would be f***ed. Not sure Minny would do it anyways.

 

[Bazeek]

Boldy looks like a solid piece. Great draft pick. There was a Minnesota draftee on St. Cloud last year that looked pretty good as well. I remember seeing him while watching Miettinen.

Minnesota is building a nice squad. Do you know what the plans are with McBain and his potential to walk to UFA?

Might've been Sam Hentges. He's had some strong showings with St Cloud, but the production cooled off last year.

I assume they'll offer McBain a contract and I hope he'll sign it. They've got several of his teammates either signed (Boldy) or in the system (Warren, Nesterenko) and they do need a center prospect with some size, so even as a free agent Minnesota should be pretty appealing. We'll see, though.

 

[LeafChief]

Might've been Sam Hentges. He's had some strong showings with St Cloud, but the production cooled off last year.

I assume they'll offer McBain a contract and I hope he'll sign it. They've got several of his teammates either signed (Boldy) or in the system (Warren, Nesterenko) and they do need a center prospect with some size, so even as a free agent Minnesota should be pretty appealing. We'll see, though.

Yes - I think it was Hentges!

Thanks for the info.

 

[Dache]

Greenway+4th= Dermott
4th= Ritchie

Ritchie has negative value at this point. And I’d say Greenway > Dermott. Especially if he’s being called a 2nd liner

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I'm a huge greenway fan and a fan of the Leafs and Minnesota doesn't do this trade. Take the picks out and maybe, but even then I wouldn't trade greenway for that package.

 

[seanlinden]

Ritchie has negative value at this point. And I’d say Greenway > Dermott. Especially if he’s being called a 2nd liner

Honestly, the comparison between Dermott & Greenway is probably not that far apart.

Both 2015 draft picks, Dermott's 2 months older. Greenway is a big-bodied, "middle 6" winger. Dermott is an average-sized, puckmoving 4-5 defenceman. Greenway's played 222 NHL games, Dermott, 223.

You can make the argument that Greenway is more valuable -- there's a lot less guys like him in the league. You can make the case that Dermott is more valuable given that he's got a 2-year deal at $1.5m versus 1 year at $2.1m; that defencemen generally take longer to develop, and that he hasn't necessarily had the opportunities / openings that Greenway has.

Then there's the question of Ritchie, obviously not having a great year, but he's still a guy who scores goals at a 50% higher rate than Greenway has over his career. That 2nd year may be appealing to a team that isn't necessarily the most attractive destination for UFAs. Certainly not a ton of value, but if you're the Wild, this could be a situation that is kind of a no-lose where you trade Greenway, get an equivalent value young defenceman, plus a potential Greenway replacement. Maybe instead of picks, it's Greenway & Merrill for Ritchie & Dermott.

 

[Bazeek]

Honestly, the comparison between Dermott & Greenway is probably not that far apart.

Both 2015 draft picks, Dermott's 2 months older. Greenway is a big-bodied, "middle 6" winger. Dermott is an average-sized, puckmoving 4-5 defenceman. Greenway's played 222 NHL games, Dermott, 223.

You can make the argument that Greenway is more valuable -- there's a lot less guys like him in the league. You can make the case that Dermott is more valuable given that he's got a 2-year deal at $1.5m versus 1 year at $2.1m; that defencemen generally take longer to develop, and that he hasn't necessarily had the opportunities / openings that Greenway has.

Then there's the question of Ritchie, obviously not having a great year, but he's still a guy who scores goals at a 50% higher rate than Greenway has over his career. That 2nd year may be appealing to a team that isn't necessarily the most attractive destination for UFAs. Certainly not a ton of value, but if you're the Wild, this could be a situation that is kind of a no-lose where you trade Greenway, get an equivalent value young defenceman, plus a potential Greenway replacement. Maybe instead of picks, it's Greenway & Merrill for Ritchie & Dermott.

For whatever it's worth I more or less I agree on Greenway vs Dermott right now. Overall I just think Minnesota would rather keep Greenway around for the year and trade him for futures over the summer than swap him for a LD they don't really have immediate or long term room for.