Proposal: Tor/Min

[rynryn]

No way I would trade JVR for Dunba
MIN tried to trade Dumba to edm for RNH and Chia wouldn't go for it as Dumba will never be a top 3

you might say Edmonton tried to trade RNH for Dumba +, and we declined. Edmonton was shopping their player. The Wild wasn't. Its a salient point in this discussion.

 

[NotYou]

Wild fans have made it abundantly clear they don't want JVR or Kadri as a return for any of their defencemen. Whether you agree or disagree, the answer is always the same and this is coming from a Leafs fan.

thanks

This is so bad from the Wild's perspective.

I try to dump Pominville in every Wild trade proposal, and, yet, even I will have to admit Pominville has more worth to the Wild, as a right-shot, RW, than JVR, who is a completely unneeded LW to squeeze in with Parise, Granlund, Nino, and Zucker.

And that's ignoring putting Dumba in this deal.

Eh, I don't agree with that. JVR is probably a better RW than Poms despite being a natural LW

 

[rynryn]

thanks


Eh, I don't agree with that. JVR is probably a better RW than Poms despite being a natural LW

i'm curious...Are you basing that solely off this last season? Because otherwise it seems like it's mostly faith based. obviously being younger is a big mark in his favor but he isn't clearly better. Pommer is such a whipping boy.

 

[MNRube]

JVR is bad fit for Wild, but strangely enough seems like just the type of guy Fletcher would acquire. Anyways, I have no interest in trading Dumba for anyone but a young C. Not many 21 RHD have had 10G, 25PT seasons and he has an awesome offensive upside if you watch. Want to see how he does under Boudreau/Stevens.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Assuming you've watched a lot of KHL action. Give us a Zaitsev scouting report.

"KHL action" not NHL action. As of now he hasn't proven anything. Not to mention u said Marincin in your post. You are expecting too much from a bottom pairing dman

 

[NotYou]

i'm curious...Are you basing that solely off this last season? Because otherwise it seems like it's mostly faith based. obviously being younger is a big mark in his favor but he isn't clearly better. Pommer is such a whipping boy.

No, it's based off his steady decline. If he returns to 14-15 form I'd be wrong. I think he'll be somewhere between the last two seasons this year, but he's on the way down.But no, he's not better than jvr atm, not is it all that close. He's still a useful player on the ice but jvr is fantastic. I really doubt the change in sides takes him down to poms current level

 

[rynryn]

No, it's based off his steady decline. If he returns to 14-15 form I'd be wrong. I think he'll be somewhere between the last two seasons this year, but he's on the way down.But no, he's not better than jvr atm, not is it all that close. He's still a useful player on the ice but jvr is fantastic. I really doubt the change in sides takes him down to poms current level

what about JVR is fantastic? I honestly don't understand. Then again I don't think Nino is fantastic either, so maybe your scale has wider tolerances than mine. Pommer has always been streaky. He's just as likely to bounce back as not. I think they'll be roughly even again.

You seriously believe Toronto fans no matter how they want to spin it would be--daily--trying to sell off a fantastic hockey player?

 

[The Assclown]

"KHL action" not NHL action. As of now he hasn't proven anything. Not to mention u said Marincin in your post. You are expecting too much from a bottom pairing dman

I didn't say any such thing.

 

[Halla]

so basically dumba for JVR,Bracco and taking a cap dump...
terrible for the leafs

 

[Halla]

what about JVR is fantastic? I honestly don't understand. Then again I don't think Nino is fantastic either, so maybe your scale has wider tolerances than mine. Pommer has always been streaky. He's just as likely to bounce back as not. I think they'll be roughly even again.

You seriously believe Toronto fans no matter how they want to spin it would be--daily--trying to sell off a fantastic hockey player?

obviously the management team of the US saw something in him over guys like kessel and pominville. or was that a choice to "sell tickets"?

Toronto doesnt touch this with a 39 1/2 foot poll. Dumba is a nice piece, but not worth our top line LW, one of our better prospects, and taking on pominville.

 

[Currysux*]

Dumba wont return a better piece than Kadri. No one is going to trade a 1C straight up for him and in a package for a 1C, Dumba wouldnt be the main piece.

 

[rynryn]

obviously the management team of the US saw something in him over guys like kessel and pominville. or was that a choice to "sell tickets"?

Toronto doesnt touch this with a 39 1/2 foot poll. Dumba is a nice piece, but not worth our top line LW, one of our better prospects, and taking on pominville.

i think a lot of people were scratching their heads at some of the stuff management did. I wouldn't at all mind him on the team but i don't think he's fantastic. you can take that as a snub if you wish, but you have to admit if you regarded him as such theres no way you'd try to sell him off.

I do think there's a realistic deal to be made for JVR in there but I'm certain fans here are incapable of actually proposing it. He does fit need for us. Do you need two top four D? (counting Dumba--i think he'll be there under Stevens).

edit: i think the #1C train has left the building. I think it's about finding a top six LW now.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Dumba wont return a better piece than Kadri. No one is going to trade a 1C straight up for him and in a package for a 1C, Dumba wouldnt be the main piece.

Dumba really isn't for sale so nobody has to worry about it.

i think a lot of people were scratching their heads at some of the stuff management did. I wouldn't at all mind him on the team but i don't think he's fantastic. you can take that as a snub if you wish, but you have to admit if you regarded him as such theres no way you'd try to sell him off.

I do think there's a realistic deal to be made for JVR in there but I'm certain fans here are incapable of actually proposing it. He does fit need for us. Do you need two top four D? (counting Dumba--i think he'll be there under Stevens).

edit: i think the #1C train has left the building. I think it's about finding a top six LW now.

So Parise, Nino, Zucker isn't enough for top 9 left wingers? Coyle, Granlund, Pominville for top 9 right wingers. Koivu, Staal, Haula for top 9 centers. Everything seems pretty set.

 

[MK9]

Dumba wont return a better piece than Kadri. No one is going to trade a 1C straight up for him and in a package for a 1C, Dumba wouldnt be the main piece.

I fail to see the connection between those two things.

 

[rynryn]

Dumba really isn't for sale so nobody has to worry about it.


So Parise, Nino, Zucker isn't enough for top 9 left wingers? Coyle, Granlund, Pominville for top 9 right wingers. Koivu, Staal, Haula for top 9 centers. Everything seems pretty set.

Out of all those positions I have the least amount of faith zucker can keep his **** together. I think they like Nino on the third line and the matchups they'd been throwing him against and i don't think Zucker will fare well on 2nd line duties.

parise - staal - coyle
x - koivu - granlund
nino - haula - pominville


i just don't like the look of zucker there. But who knows what will shake out? I'm fine just seeing what we have, too, if there isn't value to be had.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I always thought Zucker played his best next to Koivu. Personally have the lines as:

Parise-Staal-Coyle
Zucker-Koivu-Granlund
Nino-Haula-Pominville
Dalpe/Graovac-Graovac/Cullen-Stewart

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Spurgeon
Reilly-Dumba (fun times haha)

Dubby
Kuemps

 

[rynryn]

I always thought Zucker played his best next to Koivu. Personally have the lines as:

Parise-Staal-Coyle
Zucker-Koivu-Granlund
Nino-Haula-Pominville
Dalpe/Graovac-Graovac/Cullen-Stewart

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Spurgeon
Reilly-Dumba (fun times haha)

Dubby
Kuemps

I have no idea whats going on on the 4th. Assuming nothing changes, that looks like pretty much what I'd expect penciled in on the coachs' office wall. Thought they did say they wanted to give Ek and Tuch a chance to earn a spot. Not sure that'd be a great idea. I do think Gabriel will get a decent look in camp too. they're not going to expect him to score or anything, but BB has had one of those guys on most of his teams.

i'm trying to imagine sliding JVR in there and taking out two of our D (replacing with Prosser and Folin?) but i don't really like that either. I kind of like the idea of Zucker on the 4th. Should be able to get quality chances there and we'd have a ready guy to bump up for injuries.

 

[Jyrki Lumme]

No way I would trade JVR for Dunba
MIN tried to trade Dumba to edm for RNH and Chia wouldn't go for it as Dumba will never be a top 3

I don't think Chiarelli should be used as an example by whom you should judge players.

 

[NotYou]

what about JVR is fantastic? I honestly don't understand. Then again I don't think Nino is fantastic either, so maybe your scale has wider tolerances than mine. Pommer has always been streaky. He's just as likely to bounce back as not. I think they'll be roughly even again.

You seriously believe Toronto fans no matter how they want to spin it would be--daily--trying to sell off a fantastic hockey player?

Yeah, I think a .68-.76ppg winger is very good. Maybe fantastic was a hair strong, whatever. Nino has topped .5 ppg once...by 2 points over 82 games. No he's not fantastic or even very good. That's obvious. I hope you aren't trying to equate the two.

Nearly all wingers are streaky. Poms more so, fine. But, over the prime of his career, he was pretty consistent season to season. Except last year. He's the age (33, turning 34 Nov 30) where nearly all forwards drop of if they haven't already. Given one year of steep decline, your even bet of him returning to form is one I'd put a lot of money against. I'm sure as hell not along in that assessment either.

 

[blueberrie]

I fail to see the connection between those two things.

He's not calling Kadri a #1 C. He's saying a Kadri level player is the best return you're going to get for Dumba.

 

[NotYou]

He's not calling Kadri a #1 C. He's saying a Kadri level player is the best return you're going to get for Dumba.

Indications are we could've added enough to get RNH for him but decided not to. So yeah, a deal with him as the centerpiece can return better than Kadri. He's a good piece to keep and his value could skyrocket pretty quickly. It's unlikely to decrease significantly for the next year or two. We can wait on a trade

 

[rynryn]

Yeah, I think a .68-.76ppg winger is very good. Maybe fantastic was a hair strong, whatever. Nino has topped .5 ppg once...by 2 points over 82 games. No he's not fantastic or even very good. That's obvious. I hope you aren't trying to equate the two.

Nearly all wingers are streaky. Poms more so, fine. But, over the prime of his career, he was pretty consistent season to season. Except last year. He's the age (33, turning 34 Nov 30) where nearly all forwards drop of if they haven't already. Given one year of steep decline, your even bet of him returning to form is one I'd put a lot of money against. I'm sure as hell not along in that assessment either.

Nino vs JVR? not really comparing them in anything other than my difference of opinion on how awesome they are from most wild fans here. Also Nino has quite a few more prime years left in him than JVR and he plays 3 minutes a night fewer. If you want to talk career points per game Nino here has averaged .48 ppg playing mostly on the third line. I'm farily sure Nino will be as good as JVR or better when he's 27, and probably more durable. Want to win now? Probably JVR (if he's healthy). long term? Nino.

 

[TaLoN]

far as the second part. Whether we trade one of our young Dmen, we will still be at risk of losing one anyway. At least based on the general consensus of what the expansion protection list will look like. Unless we get lucky and LV grabs Staal or Zucker.

Exactly... why trade one and then possibly lose another in the expansion draft when we can keep them all now and maybe ONLY lose one in the expansion draft? Possibly none if Staal has a good year or the Wild can convince Vegas to take the hometown kid Zucker.

 

[NotYou]

Nino vs JVR? not really comparing them in anything other than my difference of opinion on how awesome they are from most wild fans here. Also Nino has quite a few more prime years left in him than JVR and he plays 3 minutes a night fewer. If you want to talk career points per game Nino here has averaged .48 ppg playing mostly on the third line. I'm farily sure Nino will be as good as JVR or better when he's 27, and probably more durable. Want to win now? Probably JVR (if he's healthy). long term? Nino.

Then why are you comparing them? The point you responded to was the comparision between Pomminville and JVR. FWIW, bold are the only things I agree with. I don't think they're particularly close short or long term. A poll would probably wind up closed before the 2 page mark. Nino has failed to play his was into a consistent top 6 role thus far. He doesn't get credit or a boost in value from that.

 

[MarryMarner]

Nino vs JVR? not really comparing them in anything other than my difference of opinion on how awesome they are from most wild fans here. Also Nino has quite a few more prime years left in him than JVR and he plays 3 minutes a night fewer. If you want to talk career points per game Nino here has averaged .48 ppg playing mostly on the third line. I'm farily sure Nino will be as good as JVR or better when he's 27, and probably more durable. Want to win now? Probably JVR (if he's healthy). long term? Nino.

You clearly know nothing about JvR. How is he not durable? Cause he was hurt for 40 games last season? Do the previous 3 seasons of playing basically every game not count for anything?