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Proposal: TOR-FLA swap

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howkie said:
Reimer or Bobby Lou goes down during the season, what should they do then? Spend assets to get a new?
Berra for sparks makes more sense...
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How much depth do you need? At some point you have to trust that your guys will be mostly injury free. Because the cap (and budgets for some teams) prevent GMs from having loads and loads of insurance.
 
howkie said:
Reimer or Bobby Lou goes down during the season, what should they do then? Spend assets to get a new?
Berra for sparks makes more sense...
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sign a backup to a 2 way deal. maybe a guy like labarbera to come up and play 0 games in the event of an injury? not many teams have a 1.5 mil goalie in the AHL
 
Riptide said:
Just an FYI. If Berra is in the minors, FLA still has to pay him his full salary. So he'll have a ~500k cap hit AND still be getting paid ~1.5m.
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pretty much the reason I made this thread. Florida has no interest paying a guy 1.5 million US to ride the bus in the AHL. if they really need a vet, they can sign a guy to a 600k NHL/ 150k AHL deal. (Lindback maybe?)

Toronto probably will allow sparks/bibeau to split games this year to see who is better. If they dont sign a Ramo/Enroth they will hit the waiver wire with names like Berra, Hutchison and Berube likely available
 
Halla said:
Holland probably cracks the panthers top 9. at worst he is a 4th liner that can move up in case of injuries or terrible play by vets (bolland).
surely that is more useful than paying a guy to be in the pressbox for 70 games
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he most certainly do not.
also, why are you mentioning bolland? he most likely won't play another game as a panther.
 
spacemanatee said:
he most certainly do not.
also, why are you mentioning bolland? he most likely won't play another game as a panther.
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most certainly? you think he has 0 chance to beat out a derek mackenzie, marchessault, mckegg etc?

Hollands 27 points would have put him 7th on FLA last year among forwards. Florida has 2 opens spots on like 3 and Holland would likely grab one with mcann getting the other. certainly better than paying a plug 750k and 500k in dead space to Berra, with the owners on the hook for his full 1.5 mil salary
 
Halla said:
most certainly? you think he has 0 chance to beat out a derek mackenzie, marchessault, mckegg etc?

Hollands 27 points would have put him 7th on FLA last year among forwards. Florida has 2 opens spots on like 3 and Holland would likely grab one with mcann getting the other. certainly better than paying a plug 750k and 500k in dead space to Berra, with the owners on the hook for his full 1.5 mil salary
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It would help if you actually knew who was likely in our lineup...

Hubby - Barkov - Jagr
Jussi - Tro - Smith
McCann - Jugs - JAM
Crouse - DMack - Sceviour/Thornton

McKegg, Hawrlyuk, Rau, Hunt


Personally not interested in this trade. Not a player we need.
 
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Halla said:
most certainly? you think he has 0 chance to beat out a derek mackenzie, marchessault, mckegg etc?

Hollands 27 points would have put him 7th on FLA last year among forwards. Florida has 2 opens spots on like 3 and Holland would likely grab one with mcann getting the other. certainly better than paying a plug 750k and 500k in dead space to Berra, with the owners on the hook for his full 1.5 mil salary
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Ok, let's see: 4th liner, 4th liner, 4th liner.
 
Juggernaut27 said:
It would help if you actually knew who was likely in our lineup...

Hubby - Barkov - Jagr
Jussi - Tro - Smith
McCann - Jugs - JAM
Crouse - DMack - Sceviour/Thornton

McKegg, Hawrlyuk, Rau, Hunt


Personally not interested in this trade. Not a player we need.
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Nice lineup too. But the last names on the list are likely in the AHL (and/or should be in the AHL) as depth callups. McKegg is probably the first callup but you cant list him as being ahead of a more proven guy like Holland. I know both MacKenzie and Thornton are veteran leaders (and MacKenzie also provides strong FO abilities) so those guys are not factors in this (and Thornton is likely just a bench guy for the most part now).

The ONLY way this makes sense is if one (or possibly both) of McCann and Crouse arent making that roster. Only if to give them more time to develop though I've read that McCann has been working hard so I think he's the safer of the 2. Yes Crouse likely will be on the roster but if you dont need to rush him and let him develop more of his offensive game, then why not? Holland could fit on the bottom 6 LW and its basically only a 1 yr commitment on him too.

Berra is a nice insurance policy but then you guys do have Mike McKenna in the AHL along with Brittain and Stevens in the pipeline so there's room to move Berra and not kill the depth (McKenna is 33 so he's not a guy you need to develop further). And if you're demoting Berra, that hurts your development of Brittain and Stevens as they would lose out on valuable icetime. Also that assumes Luo is healthy to start the season which seems to be possibly in question ATM. McKenna is a fine #3 to callup to be a guy that rides the pine while one of Luo/Reimer are starting in case of injury to the other one.
 
The insurance policy rationale is pretty silly.

Luongo and Reimer are both capable starters with McKenna being a competent #3.

This is actually a deal where you can make a case that the Leafs lose the deal but it could help both teams.
 
WTFMAN99 said:
The insurance policy rationale is pretty silly.

Luongo and Reimer are both capable starters with McKenna being a competent #3.

This is actually a deal where you can make a case that the Leafs lose the deal but it could help both teams.
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How is it silly? Luongo is really old and coming off hip surgery. So having Berra has an insurance policy is great for them. I'm sure they love that he had one of the best 5v5 SV% in the league these pas few seasons. The front office is really into advance stats and Berra fit that, Holland does not.
Holland's advance stats are really bad so I don't think he would be an interesting target for them. Heck, he's on the fourth line or out of the lineup of many posters on the Leafs board, so I really don't get how Leafs fans can say that he'd fit on the Panthers' third line.

You seem to like McKenna, I'm sure an AHL deal could be made between the teams for him.
 
klabob said:
How is it silly? Luongo is really old and coming off hip surgery. So having Berra has an insurance policy is great for them. I'm sure they love that he had one of the best 5v5 SV% in the league these pas few seasons. The front office is really into advance stats and Berra fit that, Holland does not.
Holland's advance stats are really bad so I don't think he would be an interesting target for them. Heck, he's on the fourth line or out of the lineup of many posters on the Leafs board, so I really don't get how Leafs fans can say that he'd fit on the Panthers' third line.

You seem to like McKenna, I'm sure an AHL deal could be made between the teams for him.
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I see a spot on the 3rd line for Holland with the Panthers...I've seen a lot of people put Crouse on the team and while you can make a case he's ready physically, he could still benefit from development time to refine his offensive game.

In terms of not having Holland on the team it's just a matter of us having like 16-17 forwards you could realistically put on the roster....most guys are so expensive they are on the team or fans would rather absorb the Holland AHL cap hit to get a guy like Nylander or Brown on the team.

AHL goaltending we're actually set. We have a nice starter, no viable NHL back up and like 3 AHL goalies.
 
WTFMAN99 said:
I see a spot on the 3rd line for Holland with the Panthers...I've seen a lot of people put Crouse on the team and while you can make a case he's ready physically, he could still benefit from development time to refine his offensive game.

In terms of not having Holland on the team it's just a matter of us having like 16-17 forwards you could realistically put on the roster....most guys are so expensive they are on the team or fans would rather absorb the Holland AHL cap hit to get a guy like Nylander or Brown on the team.

AHL goaltending we're actually set. We have a nice starter, no viable NHL back up and like 3 AHL goalies.
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So you would like to shove your problem over to us?

Crouse is on the 4th, plays LW, and we have plenty of other options for his spot if he doesn't stay.
 
Juggernaut27 said:
So you would like to shove your problem over to us?

Crouse is on the 4th, plays LW, and we have plenty of other options for his spot if he doesn't stay.
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Yep, a guy who would have been the 7th best scorer on your team (admittedly he did go through waivers recently) and should be able to contribute on your 3rd line for a #3 goalie (who also passed through waivers last year) - You're getting such a terrible deal...
 
WTFMAN99 said:
Yep, a guy who would have been the 7th best scorer on your team (admittedly he did go through waivers recently) and should be able to contribute on your 3rd line for a #3 goalie (who also passed through waivers last year) - You're getting such a terrible deal...
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He got those points playing for a tire fire of a team, defensivley. Who cares how many points he gets as a C playing for a team that picked first this year? Not a great, or even good, argument.

More importantly, we got Berra for a reason, if we must trade him at some point it's not likely to be for a player we do not need and can replace internally. They'd want pick(s) or maybe a prospect.

No one wants him with Jugs and McCann. No one wants to trade Berra. There's no reason to think Panthers management would feel differently.
 
WTFMAN99 said:
Yep, a guy who would have been the 7th best scorer on your team (admittedly he did go through waivers recently) and should be able to contribute on your 3rd line for a #3 goalie (who also passed through waivers last year) - You're getting such a terrible deal...
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Value wise it probably is fair, but with what the team is trying to build I don't see the point of pushing Holland into the roster for a year.
 
Juggernaut27 said:
He got those points playing for a tire fire of a team, defensivley. Who cares how many points he gets as a C playing for a team that picked first this year? Not a great, or even good, argument.

More importantly, we got Berra for a reason, if we must trade him at some point it's not likely to be for a player we do not need and can replace internally. They'd want pick(s) or maybe a prospect.

No one wants him with Jugs and McCann. No one wants to trade Berra. There's no reason to think Panthers management would feel differently.
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Everything is fine said:
Value wise it probably is fair, but with what the team is trying to build I don't see the point of pushing Holland into the roster for a year.
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Holland can actually play wing too, he's kind of a utility player like that.

The great thing is if one of your really good top 3 centres were to go out, he actually provides insurance and the ability to fill in as a centre for you.

I dunno, I think if this deal went through I could see you guys being happy with the deal BUT, rather then beat a dead horse at this point, it's pretty clear that while the value is likely fair, fan bases are disagreeing on doing the deal.
 
Well this one is clearly one that can get closed out now (with Enroth signing with the Leafs) :laugh:
 
yup. go ahead and shut er down mods. leafs are out of the backup goalie market. I think the panthers have a hard time moving Berra now
 
mocranks said:
We're not looking to, they want him for the AHL and an emergency callup.
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I disagree. He was brought in to be a backup to Lou, then Reimer fell into their laps. I have a hard time believing owners are gonna cough up 1.5 million for a Plan C in the AHL.
 
Halla said:
I disagree. He was brought in to be a backup to Lou, then Reimer fell into their laps. I have a hard time believing owners are gonna cough up 1.5 million for a Plan C in the AHL.
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Do you know who the Panthers owners are? 1.5 million is not a big concern. They don't want to waste money, sure, but they want to win at every level and depth in goal is a great place to start.

If Lou was not coming off surgery then maybe we don't trade for Berra.
 
Halla said:
yup. go ahead and shut er down mods. leafs are out of the backup goalie market. I think the panthers have a hard time moving Berra now
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There are these things called injuries. There's always a team or two scrambling for an NHL goalie of middling quality.
 
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