Proposal: TOR / DAL + TOR/STL + TOR/??

FameFlame069

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Oct 2, 2017
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By the time he was traded, he had declined, and was not better than Zaitsev is right now at all.

There are articles around the time of the trade calling him the worst contract in the entire NHL.

Did he help the Sens in a top 4 do reach the ECF and was one goal away from making the finals with them? He was also traded for 2 or 3 cap dumps, much like Z will be without a major add or Tor's side, the CAP ERA is happening, teams won't take a dump unless it benefits them, Kadri vs Faksa adds some scoring punch but not enough for them to take a 5 year 1-1.5m over paid #4/5 dman
 

joe dirte

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Sep 28, 2017
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Better hurry up and unload him then, his modified NTC kicks in next year.
I dont think its gonna be as easy as you think. You're gonna need to offer up a fair bit to get some GM to swallow nearly $22 million for a bottom pairing guy.

Leafs haven't done much in the last 20 years so no sense throwing stones. Just find it funny Z is in literally every TOR trade offer.

Well we'll see. And I didn't say the Leafs would be adding in a late round pick. He'll get given away for that. i.e. Zaitsev for a 7th.

And I just explained it to you, the problem is not that Zaitsev is terrible, it's that the Leafs need the cap room. Did that go right over your head?
 

joe dirte

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Sep 28, 2017
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Did he help the Sens in a top 4 do reach the ECF and was one goal away from making the finals with them? He was also traded for 2 or 3 cap dumps, much like Z will be without a major add or Tor's side, the CAP ERA is happening, teams won't take a dump unless it benefits them, Kadri vs Faksa adds some scoring punch but not enough for them to take a 5 year 1-1.5m over paid #4/5 dman


I guess that's a matter of opinion. Did he help? Did he?

Phaneuf was horrendous when he was traded.
 

DingDongCharlie

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Sep 12, 2010
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These are just classic examples off the top of my head from this board. A lot of people change their stance after the deals happened.

I don't think Zaitsev will have any money retained simply because the Leafs need to be efficient with their cap, no dollar can be wasted.

I have a feeling they'll have to take back another unattractive contract (in this case, I chose Johns) and maybe add a pick or a prospect. The suggestion that it will be Kappy, Liljegren or Sandin is laughable though, those players aren't being made available for valuable players...we definitely wouldn't attach one to dump Zaitsev.

I saw a need for Dallas at the 2C position, if the Leafs take Johns back in the deal, a spot opens up at RD. Leafs (significantly) downgrade at centre to Faksa, probably stay about on par with Zaitsev-Johns swap, if Johns even comes back.

Well we’d have to agree to disagree as I believe Zaitsev has negative value and I would expect Kap or Sandin. I probably wouldn’t even touch him if the add is Liljegren, the imo lesser of those 3 assets.

I’d love to see my Oilers dump Lucic. I know the ask starts at our 1st+ or Bouchard. To think overwise would be naive on my part. I’ll give that Zaitsev isn’t as useless nor is the contract as bad, but the term isn’t pretty.
 

garyturner3

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Jun 16, 2015
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Z will cost a top prospect, just like Bickell did, yes hesh better than Bickell, but his contract is way longer, he costed TT, who would be a comparable to him? Sandin/Lilj/Kap I would say are the only candidates

Not a chance. Zaitsev's ability (or lack of) is getting so massively exaggerated on here it's not even funny anymore. He's not even close to the player people are making him out to be. You'd think he'd be lucky to crack the AHL the way people talk about him. I agree he's got essentially no value because of that contract, but if you watch the guy play he's obviously a serviceable d-man. If the Leafs decide to dump him there's zero chance they'd need to add a big time asset on top of him to do it.
 

FameFlame069

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Oct 2, 2017
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I guess that's a matter of opinion. Did he help? Did he?

Phaneuf was horrendous when he was traded.

If you watched the Sens during their cup run, I would definitely say Dion helped in the locker room and on the ice, he was in no way the carrier or anything, but he brought experience to a youngish team, I don't think that the Sens would have made it that far without him though, he had some key plays in the final two rounds. I'm not saying he's ten times better than Z but he was better in the role he was in
 

WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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I know Dallas’ cap situation.

They’ll have ~20M to fill 8 or so contracts and give Lindell a raise to 4.5M+. They’re not in a position to take on Zaitsevs anchor of a contract for 5 years even if it means getting Kadri on a solid contract.

Tell me if I am off base here at all but

Benn-Seguin-Radulov
Cogliano-Kadri-Comeau
Janmark(2.75Mx3)-Hanzal-Nuke
Hintz-Dickinson(1.2x2)-Pitlick
Gurionaov

Heiskanen-Klingberg
Lindell(4.5Mx5)-Zaitsev
X-Oleksiak
Carrick(1.5x1)

At 83M cap and 2 roster spots to fill, Dallas would have 7.695M in cap space.

Hanzal (4.75M and Nuke (2.95M) expire next year and the cap will go up even more. I think Dallas is set up fairly nicely. Dellandrea would likely be ready to come in as the 3C after that year, so you'd be fairly solid at centre.

Well we’d have to agree to disagree as I believe Zaitsev has negative value and I would expect Kap or Sandin. I probably wouldn’t even touch him if the add is Liljegren, the imo lesser of those 3 assets.

I’d love to see my Oilers dump Lucic. I know the ask starts at our 1st+ or Bouchard. To think overwise would be naive on my part. I’ll give that Zaitsev isn’t as useless nor is the contract as bad, but the term isn’t pretty.

Zaitsev is luckily a right handed shot and is not buy out proof due to not being a heavily bonus laden contract. It could simply be that Brown is the cap casualty and Toronto moves Zaitsev to Seattle in expansion draft.
 

FameFlame069

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Oct 2, 2017
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Not a chance. Zaitsev's ability (or lack of) is getting so massively exaggerated on here it's not even funny anymore. He's not even close to the player people are making him out to be. You'd think he'd be lucky to crack the AHL the way people talk about him. I agree he's got essentially no value because of that contract, but if you watch the guy play he's obviously a serviceable d-man. If the Leafs decide to dump him there's zero chance they'd need to add a big time asset on top of him to do it.

Yes a serviceable 4/5 overpaid player on a good team, im going to laugh at the fans when they realize that paying a team to take on bad cap costs, but keep on dreaming
 

DingDongCharlie

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Sep 12, 2010
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Not a chance. Zaitsev's ability (or lack of) is getting so massively exaggerated on here it's not even funny anymore. He's not even close to the player people are making him out to be. You'd think he'd be lucky to crack the AHL the way people talk about him. I agree he's got essentially no value because of that contract, but if you watch the guy play he's obviously a serviceable d-man. If the Leafs decide to dump him there's zero chance they'd need to add a big time asset on top of him to do it.

I’m not a Leafs fan but I’m hoping they do some damage in the playoffs and can afford to keep the core together. I disagree wholeheartedly that Zaitsev isn’t a full on cap dump.

Toronto will be seen as in a position of weakness needing to move out cap. Many understand that a serviceable defenceman on a long term slightly overpaid contract hold negative value.

No team is chopping at the bit for Zaitsev. No club is going to want to help the Leafs retain their core and depth. It’s a business. Any rival who wouldn’t exploit the situation in a Zaitsev trade should be canned
 

ConnorMcMullet

#12 Colby Cave
Jun 10, 2017
10,373
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TOR
Nazem Kadri
Nikita Zaitsev

DAL
Radek Faksa
Stephen Johns
2nd 2019 or 3rd 2019 (Looking for input)

----

Looking for an idea as to what St.Louis would be looking for from Toronto for Zach Sanford this off-season.

--

What do you think Toronto could acquire for Connor Brown? 2.1M for another season and then RFA after this. He's been tried at at LW lately but he's more at home on the RW. Great penalty killer (good zone exit numbers as well). He's mostly been buried on the 4th line (Nylander, Marner and Kappy at RW) but given the upcoming cap crunch, he could be a casualty. He can play 3rd line well.

What would you be comfortable in offering for Brown from your own teams perspective?

Thanks.
Seems pretty fair. I think both teams actually say yes, although that depends on their confidence in Kadri/Faksa returning to their form last year.
 

TheImpatientPanther

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Jan 17, 2013
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Well we'll see. And I didn't say the Leafs would be adding in a late round pick. He'll get given away for that. i.e. Zaitsev for a 7th.

And I just explained it to you, the problem is not that Zaitsev is terrible, it's that the Leafs need the cap room. Did that go right over your head?

And I'm telling you you're gonna need to add something valuable to Z to trade him for a 7th.

I live 20mins outside Toronto, tell me more about their cap situation :cool:
 
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WTFMAN99

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Seems pretty fair. I think both teams actually say yes, although that depends on their confidence in Kadri/Faksa returning to their form last year.

Kadri is a victim of being the 3C but if he's the 2C, he's probably a sure bet for 55-60 pts, 25-30 goals. Problem is in Toronto he's less prominent now and getting the "scraps" on wing. Although it is getting better with Nylander getting better every game.

Talking about moving players like Sanford is difficult because there is no reason to move him unless there is a clear overpayment or he's a plus in a larger deal.

Fair. I knew that St.Lous was getting an influx of guys and maybe not enough roster spots to go around.
 
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Falco Lombardi

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Nov 17, 2011
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Talking about moving players like Sanford is difficult because there is no reason to move him unless there is a clear overpayment or he's a plus in a larger deal.

Yeah. He’s inexpensive and performs relatively well to that cost, as opposed to some of the bigger contracts for older guys. Unless one of the Steen/Bozak contracts get moved, having a guy like Sanford is oretty beneficial to the Blues.
 
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serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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First of all there's a chance Stephen Johns may never play again so i doubt he's included in any trade or at least in any longterm plans.

Otherwise i doubt Stars would've even traded for Oleksiak
 

WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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First of all there's a chance Stephen Johns may never play again so i doubt included in any trade

What is a reasonable substitute from Dallas if that is the case?

Hanzal? I think the overwhelming majority of Stars fans seem to be down on him.
 

Satan

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Apr 13, 2010
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Tell me if I am off base here at all but

Benn-Seguin-Radulov
Cogliano-Kadri-Comeau
Janmark(2.75Mx3)-Hanzal-Nuke
Hintz-Dickinson(1.2x2)-Pitlick
Gurionaov

Heiskanen-Klingberg
Lindell(4.5Mx5)-Zaitsev
X-Oleksiak
Carrick(1.5x1)

At 83M cap and 2 roster spots to fill, Dallas would have 7.695M in cap space.

Hanzal (4.75M and Nuke (2.95M) expire next year and the cap will go up even more. I think Dallas is set up fairly nicely. Dellandrea would likely be ready to come in as the 3C after that year, so you'd be fairly solid at centre.

That's a pretty gross looking roster, I'm sure you would agree with that. I think Dallas would be better off going fishing in free agency for depth at W and extending Polak and/or Fedun than trading for Zaitsev.
 

garyturner3

Registered User
Jun 16, 2015
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I’m not a Leafs fan but I’m hoping they do some damage in the playoffs and can afford to keep the core together. I disagree wholeheartedly that Zaitsev isn’t a full on cap dump.

Toronto will be seen as in a position of weakness needing to move out cap. Many understand that a serviceable defenceman on a long term slightly overpaid contract hold negative value.

No team is chopping at the bit for Zaitsev. No club is going to want to help the Leafs retain their core and depth. It’s a business. Any rival who wouldn’t exploit the situation in a Zaitsev trade should be canned

I'm obviously not saying teams are lining up to take Zaitsev; I fully understand he's got no value and it may require adding something to get rid of him. But those thinking he's bad enough or overpaid enough to warrant getting a guy like Sandin or Liljegren just to dump him are living in a fantasy world. That would be true maybe if Zaitsev wasn't a serviceable player, but he still is. He's just overpaid. People act like he's locked into a 8x8M contract the way they talk about him.
 

serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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What is a reasonable substitute from Dallas if that is the case?

Hanzal? I think the overwhelming majority of Stars fans seem to be down on him.

Hanzal's career is likely done too . Even more likely than Johns imho. He had spinal fusion last year and when he came back he looked awful . Hanzal was never a fast skater but jesus f***ing christ he was so much slower when he came back this year and his comeback didn't even last 10 game. He made Roman Polak look really fast in comparison.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
34,136
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That's a pretty gross looking roster, I'm sure you would agree with that. I think Dallas would be better off going fishing in free agency for depth at W and extending Polak and/or Fedun than trading for Zaitsev.

They could probably fish still....

Would including Nuke or Hanzal in the deal be more reasonable or more appealing?

Hanzal's career is like done too . Even more likely than Johns imho. He had spinal fusion last year and when he came back he looked like awful . Hanzal was never a fast skater but jesus ****ing christ he was so much slower when he came back this year and his comeback didn't even last 10 game. He made Roman Polak look really fast in comparison.

Polak is an underrated skater to be honest but yea, I remember reading about the injury.

Okay, how about Nuke? I think the word "useless" has been bandied about quite a bit in regards to Nichushkin.
 

Satan

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They could probably fish still....

Would including Nuke or Hanzal in the deal be more reasonable or more appealing?



Polak is an underrated skater to be honest but yea, I remember reading about the injury.

Okay, how about Nuke? I think the word "useless" has been bandied about quite a bit in regards to Nichushkin.

Jim Nill's done a good job at managing the cap. Dallas has long term flexibility even after paying JB14 and TS91 big contracts- something that Toronto could a thing or two about.

Taking on a 5 yr deal for a guy who is basically a Russian Marc Staal isn't a smart thing to do when internal options provide better value.

0 goals is pretty useless, no?
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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Jim Nill's done a good job at managing the cap. Dallas has long term flexibility even after paying JB14 and TS91 big contracts- something that Toronto could a thing or two about.

Taking on a 5 yr deal for a guy who is basically a Russian Marc Staal isn't a smart thing to do when internal options provide better value.

0 goals is pretty useless, no?

Zaitsev has 2 goals ;)
 

serp

Registered User
Jan 17, 2016
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They could probably fish still....

Would including Nuke or Hanzal in the deal be more reasonable or more appealing?



Polak is an underrated skater to be honest but yea, I remember reading about the injury.

Okay, how about Nuke? I think the word "useless" has been bandied about quite a bit in regards to Nichushkin.

I'm not in love with the money coming back for Zaitsev and i don't know if Kadris decent contract alone make up for it. 5 years of Zaitsev is a very long time and he's paid like something he just isn't.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
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I'm obviously not saying teams are lining up to take Zaitsev; I fully understand he's got no value and it may require adding something to get rid of him. But those thinking he's bad enough or overpaid enough to warrant getting a guy like Sandin or Liljegren just to dump him are living in a fantasy world. That would be true maybe if Zaitsev wasn't a serviceable player, but he still is. He's just overpaid. People act like he's locked into a 8x8M contract the way they talk about him.
Every GM in the NHL knows the Zaitsev contract may make a player like Kapanen this summer available for futures. The NTC, which kicks in this summer, only makes things even worse, as he will have to be protected in the expansion draft. An other GM, who solves this riddle for Toronto, should be fired immediately.
 

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