Proposal: TOR-CAR

[Americanadian]

Liljegren for Drury

4C for 3RD. Both RFA. Both players could theoretically be playing higher in the lineup. Carolina could lose Chatfield, Pesce, TDA this off-season and they will have Morrow/Burns going forward. Liljegren fills out that 3rd hole. Leafs currently have Matthews-Tavares-X-Kampf as NHL C depth. Drury could theoretically fill the 3C role or 4C role if/when Kampf is moved. There doesn't appear to be any room up the lineup in Carolina with Staal signed until Drury's UFA year (2027).

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[Nikishin Go Boom]

While I don’t hate the idea, it will be hard for us afford lilj on the third pairing next year with our cap issues next year. We would have to save cap in other important areas to afford the contract

 

[Americanadian]

While I don’t hate the idea, it will be hard for us afford lilj on the third pairing next year with our cap issues next year. We would have to save cap in other important areas to afford the contract

I'd assume Orlov-Liljegren would be 2nd pair until Morrow takes that job. I'd also assume the delta between Liljegren and Drury's contracts to be ~1M (2M vs 3M).

 

[Fatass]

Don’t the Leafs need D men?

 

[Americanadian]

Don’t the Leafs need D men?

It depends on what they get in return for a Marner deal and what they do in UFA. They have enough defenseman under contract as is, they need an overhaul.

 

[Fatass]

It depends on what they get in return for a Marner deal and what they do in UFA. They have enough defenseman under contract as is, they need an overhaul.

Marner would need to return a Dman who is better than Lilgegrin though. That’s not likely.

 

[Americanadian]

Marner would need to return a Dman who is better than Lilgegrin though. That’s not likely.

Depends how you view Liljegren I suppose.

 

[Chan790]

Liljegren for Drury

4C for 3RD. Both RFA. Both players could theoretically be playing higher in the lineup. Carolina could lose Chatfield, Pesce, TDA this off-season and they will have Morrow/Burns going forward. Liljegren fills out that 3rd hole. Leafs currently have Matthews-Tavares-X-Kampf as NHL C depth. Drury could theoretically fill the 3C role or 4C role if/when Kampf is moved. There doesn't appear to be any room up the lineup in Carolina with Staal signed until Drury's UFA year (2027).

I don't hate it, even as Drury is a guy I'd like to keep.

It's the other chaff from our Cs we'd like to lose. Drury also plays fine on the wing. Necas wants to be a C but won't be here. I'm firmly in the Kotkaniemi needs to just go away camp. I'm wary to see if an offseason to get back in shape and exposure to RBA can turn Kuzy around.

The biggest issue with Liljegren as a RHD is the same one we have with Hronek in the Necas trade proposals...we really actually specifically need a top-4 defensive RHD to play on a shutdown pair. Burns, Lil, Morrow down the right side leaves us without a good defensive pairing. Orlov-Lil isn't terrible but they're not handling the tough minutes Skjei-Pesce took.

 

[HockeyVirus]

4C is not a need. They have Kampf, Dewar, and Holmberg

 

[Americanadian]

4C is not a need. They have Kampf, Dewar, and Holmberg

Unless you play Drury at 3C.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Unless you play Drury at 3C.

I just don't see the fit to be honest. We could use a RD a lot more than a bottom 6 C as I mentioned the names we have to fill those roles.

Of all the spots on the roster that need to be addressed, bottom 6 centers are near the bottom along with LW. Leafs need goaltending, defenders, and top 6 forwards.

 

[Americanadian]

I just don't see the fit to be honest. We could use a RD a lot more than a bottom 6 C as I mentioned the names we have to fill those roles.

Of all the spots on the roster that need to be addressed, bottom 6 centers are near the bottom along with LW. Leafs need goaltending, defenders, and top 6 forwards.

The Leafs have 5 defenseman under contract and 1 RFA, they don't need defenseman, they need different defenseman.

Liljegren isn't returning a 1G or top 6F in a trade.

The Leafs also have no C depth beyond the NHL. The reason for this proposal is Drury is better than all of Kampf, Dewar and Holmberg and I believe he can play an elevated role on the Leafs roster in a world where Nylander drives the 3rd line.

 

[HockeyVirus]

The Leafs have 5 defenseman under contract and 1 RFA, they don't need defenseman, they need different defenseman.

Liljegren isn't returning a 1G or top 6F in a trade.

The Leafs also have no C depth beyond the NHL. The reason for this proposal is Drury is better than all of Kampf, Dewar and Holmberg and I believe he can play an elevated role on the Leafs roster in a world where Nylander drives the 3rd line.

Well first of all, when did I say Liljegren is who I am shopping for those pieces?

Secondly, they do need defenders. Brodie declined badly this year and is gone, he was a top pairing D for us for years. Of the D who played in round 1 for us, only Rielly, McCabe, Liljegren, and Benoit are returning and only 2 of those guys are top 4 D.

3rd, they have lots of center depth. Matthews, Tavares, potentially Domi if the rumors are true and he re-signs, then Dewar / Holmberg / Kampf and in the system Minten is likely NHL ready.

So you are wrong. They have tons of centers. The areas worth upgrading are top 4 D, An upgrade on Samsonov, and an upgrade on Jarnkrok in the top 9 assuming Domi and Bertuzzi return

 

[Americanadian]

Well first of all, when did I say Liljegren is who I am shopping for those pieces?

You're commenting on a Liljegren thread - that's why I assume you're discussing Liljegren.

Secondly, they do need defenders. Brodie declined badly this year and is gone, he was a top pairing D for us for years. Of the D who played in round 1 for us, only Rielly, McCabe, Liljegren, and Benoit are returning and only 2 of those guys are top 4 D.

They also have Webber and Timmins under contract. While I agree neither will be regulars, I don't see Liljegren playing for the Leafs next season either. I think a complete overhaul on the right side is far more likely.

3rd, they have lots of center depth. Matthews, Tavares, potentially Domi if the rumors are true and he re-signs, then Dewar / Holmberg / Kampf and in the system Minten is likely NHL ready.

If Domi returns it is more likely he plays on Matthews wing than at C. There's also no good linemates to shelter him at C if Marner is gone. Dewar/Holmberg/Kampf are all fine but I don't want any playing 3C with Nylander next season, that's fine if you disagree.

If you think Minten is NHL ready that is fine but I just don't see it. He was awesome in the preseason but underwhelming in his 4 games, underwhelming at the world juniors and frankly underwhelming in the WHL (50 points in 43 games, <P/GP in the playoffs). He's not going to play over any of the 3 4C's you mentioned and he doesn't have enough offense to play up the lineup (yet).

So you are wrong. They have tons of centers. The areas worth upgrading are top 4 D, An upgrade on Samsonov, and an upgrade on Jarnkrok in the top 9 assuming Domi and Bertuzzi return

They have no C's beyond Tavares and Matthews that are better than Drury.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

I'm fine with it. But Marner deal takes precedence. Need to know what holes we are filling first if we trade one of our top guns.

 

[Fatass]

I'm fine with it. But Marner deal takes precedence. Need to know what holes we are filling first if we trade one of our top guns.

Takes two clubs to agree on the trade though. Canes likely value Drury a lot more than Liljigren.

 

[HockeyVirus]

You're commenting on a Liljegren thread - that's why I assume you're discussing Liljegren.

As I said in my OP, it is not a need so I thought it was implied I was saying I would rather save assets for what matters.

They also have Webber and Timmins under contract. While I agree neither will be regulars, I don't see Liljegren playing for the Leafs next season either. I think a complete overhaul on the right side is far more likely.

They are trying to win a cup. Come on now these are not NHL players next season. Webber is a prospect who likely play for the Marlies for a year or two and Timmins at best is a #7.

If Domi returns it is more likely he plays on Matthews wing than at C. There's also no good linemates to shelter him at C if Marner is gone. Dewar/Holmberg/Kampf are all fine but I don't want any playing 3C with Nylander next season, that's fine if you disagree.

If you think Minten is NHL ready that is fine but I just don't see it. He was awesome in the preseason but underwhelming in his 4 games, underwhelming at the world juniors and frankly underwhelming in the WHL (50 points in 43 games, <P/GP in the playoffs). He's not going to play over any of the 3 4C's you mentioned and he doesn't have enough offense to play up the lineup (yet).

Nylander is not going to be on the 3rd line. Marner is being dealt, he will be in the top 6.

They have no C's beyond Tavares and Matthews that are better than Drury.

And yet, there is a hard cap and marginally upgrading #4C is not a good use of it. Even 3C, they have their own players as I said who fit. By the end of the year, they had found something with the rookie line of Robertson - Holmberg - Knies and it is cheap enough they likely continue that.

If anything, they are likely to trade away a center in Kampf due to that logjam.


Not sure why you are getting so worked up about an objective fact that RD is a bigger need than bottom 6 C and even if you want to argue they could make an upgrade there, it just doesn't make any sense in context of all the holes needed to be filled.

 

[CanadienShark]

Seems like a reasonable offer.

 

[Americanadian]

They are trying to win a cup. Come on now these are not NHL players next season. Webber is a prospect who likely play for the Marlies for a year or two and Timmins at best is a #7.

I acknowledged as much in my post.

Nylander is not going to be on the 3rd line. Marner is being dealt, he will be in the top 6.

I think Nylander/Tavares/Matthews will all be on separate lines. Call Tavares' line the 3rd line if you wish.

And yet, there is a hard cap and marginally upgrading #4C is not a good use of it. Even 3C, they have their own players as I said who fit. By the end of the year, they had found something with the rookie line of Robertson - Holmberg - Knies and it is cheap enough they likely continue that.

We watched the same games - do you really think that line is a solution for a cup winning team? I think it's far more likely we see Domi-Matthews-Bertuzzi, Knies-X-Nylander, McMann-Tavares-Jarnkrok/X, Holmberg-Dewar-Reaves/X.

If anything, they are likely to trade away a center in Kampf due to that logjam.

Agree - I think this is a given.

Not sure why you are getting so worked up about an objective fact that RD is a bigger need than bottom 6 C and even if you want to argue they could make an upgrade there, it just doesn't make any sense in context of all the holes needed to be filled.

RD is a need because Liljegren isn't the answer. Liljegren isn't solving the RD issue in a trade. Hopefully that helps.

 

[HockeyVirus]

RD is a need because Liljegren isn't the answer. Liljegren isn't solving the RD issue in a trade. Hopefully that helps.

We need more out of Lilly than he can give. Basically we're asking him to be a top pair RD which he isn't although he has played the role excellently but only for stretches of 20 games here and there. He hasn't found the consistency but has the toolset.

As an NHL player on a cup team he absolutely does have a place with the right coach. Why does he get no PP time but whenever Rielly is out and he runs the first unit it suddenly is awesome? Last time when Rielly was suspended Lilly ran a 50% PP. Rielly comes back and he is sat again and the PP struggles rest of the season with no adjustment back.

There is this stat which backs it up that he is absolutely a top 4 dman when he actually gets used as such.

Since the start of the 2022-2023 season Timothy Liljegren has 17 points in 21 games where he plays at least 21 minutes. The Leafs are 17-3-1 during that time.

I suspect you know all of this which is why you are trying to get him cheaply because there is a player there under the right guidance.

 

[Americanadian]

We need more out of Lilly than he can give. Basically we're asking him to be a top pair RD which he isn't although he has played the role excellently but only for stretches of 20 games here and there. He hasn't found the consistency but has the toolset.

As an NHL player on a cup team he absolutely does have a place with the right coach. Why does he get no PP time but whenever Rielly is out and he runs the first unit it suddenly is awesome? Last time when Rielly was suspended Lilly ran a 50% PP. Rielly comes back and he is sat again and the PP struggles rest of the season with no adjustment back.

There is this stat which backs it up that he is absolutely a top 4 dman when he actually gets used as such.

I suspect you know all of this which is why you are trying to get him cheaply because there is a player there under the right guidance.

I am a Leafs fan, I know all of this.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

Marner would need to return a Dman who is better than Lilgegrin though. That’s not likely.

LOL this is becoming ridiculuos already.. MARNER is a star the nhl haters can say what they want..playoffs choker ok, there are 14 teams who would love him to help them get at least to te playoffs..

 

[Fatass]

LOL this is becoming ridiculuos already.. MARNER is a star the nhl haters can say what they want..playoffs choker ok, there are 14 teams who would love him to help them get at least to te playoffs..

I guess the Kings could give up Doughty for Marner so yes Marner could return a high end right shot D. But the Leafs still need Lilly on their right side too. And the Canes have Chatfield. Don’t see why they trade for Lilly.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

4C is not a need. They have Kampf, Dewar, and Holmberg

No, but 3C is

 

[Americanadian]

I guess the Kings could give up Doughty for Marner so yes Marner could return a high end right shot D. But the Leafs still need Lilly on their right side too. And the Canes have Chatfield. Don’t see why they trade for Lilly.

I didn’t realize they re-signed him.