HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Sterling Archer]

Do you think that Ylonen and Pezzetta are must keep?

The entire bottom 6 needs to be overhauled IMO. Ylonen didn’t show anything and Pezz, while contributing some toughness is easily replaceable with a higher quality player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The entire bottom 6 needs to be overhauled IMO. Ylonen didn’t show anything and Pezz, while contributing some toughness is easily replaceable with a higher quality player.

That will take it's course with the depth coming in and the vets expiring. They are not overhauling this summer.

We are talking Ylonen and Pezz when they are probably watching games while Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia are playing?

I really don't care about an improved bottom 6 at this point in time. Just don't clutter it more. We are probably going to move up the standings a bit but playoffs are not happening. Might be another 2 seasons. Until then, lets not make our bottom 6 the primarily focus. We can work on that after our top 4D, Goaltending, and top 6F are sound.

 

[Sterling Archer]

That will take it's course with the depth coming in and the vets expiring. They are not overhauling this summer.

We are talking Ylonen and Pezz when they are probably watching games while Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia are playing?

I really don't care about an improved bottom 6 at this point in time. Just don't clutter it more. We are probably going to move up the standings a bit but playoffs are not happening. Might be another 2 seasons. Until then, lets not make our bottom 6 the primarily focus. We can work on that after our top 4D, Goaltending, and top 6F are sound.

With a healthy team and younger payers pushing their way into the lineup, I don't think there's space for Ylonen, maybe some for Pezz as he brings something no other prospect brings yet.

I do think they can and will make changes to the bottom 6 this year as they want to compete and it's the easiest part of the lineup to change. Whether it's internal or external, I don' think the 4th line will look the same as it did last year. Too many mid players and not enough slots, means they should be making changes.

 

[EveryDay]

The entire bottom 6 needs to be overhauled IMO. Ylonen didn’t show anything and Pezz, while contributing some toughness is easily replaceable with a higher quality player.

I hope they clean everyone outside of Evans.

RHP-- Laval this season to help the kids
Dvorak and Armia- one last season and out
Ylonen- gone this summer
Pezzetta-- maybe as a 14th forward
Gallagher and Anderson-- I would pay to get rid of

 

[Habs Halifax]

With a healthy team and younger payers pushing their way into the lineup, I don't think there's space for Ylonen, maybe some for Pezz as he brings something no other prospect brings yet.

I do think they can and will make changes to the bottom 6 this year as they want to compete and it's the easiest part of the lineup to change. Whether it's internal or external, I don' think the 4th line will look the same as it did last year. Too many mid players and not enough slots, means they should be making changes.

I think both Ylonen and Pezz are two good pieces as depth. 1 or 2 guys are watching games.

Will Dvorak and Armia be back? Not sure. I do think Gallagher and Anderson are going nowhere. Won't be completely shocked if Anderson is moved too though.

 

[Egresch]

The entire bottom 6 needs to be overhauled IMO. Ylonen didn’t show anything and Pezz, while contributing some toughness is easily replaceable with a higher quality player.

Ylonen and Pezz are already 13/14th forward in our depth. Bottom 6 will be fixed organically. We will add one more top 6 talent in trade and one more via draft. Which means, we might have Roy, Dvorak, Armia, Anderson, Evans, Gallagher in our bottom 6 for upcoming season. Next season, that 5OA pick could join the team along with Kapanen and Beck, they could fully replace Armia, Dvorak. If we end up with Roy/Newhook- Kapanen/Beck- Iginla as our 3rd line I would be more than happy. I am not even counting Heinemann, Tuch, Xhekaj, Davidson who all seem to have solid bottom 6 potential.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ylonen and Pezz are already 13/14th forward in our depth. Bottom 6 will be fixed organically. We will add one more top 6 talent in trade and one more via draft. Which means, we might have Roy, Dvorak, Armia, Anderson, Evans, Gallagher in our bottom 6 for upcoming season. Next season, that 5OA pick could join the team along with Kapanen and Beck, they could fully replace Armia, Dvorak. If we end up with Roy/Newhook- Kapanen/Beck- Iginla as our 3rd line I would be more than happy. I am not even counting Heinemann, Tuch, Xhekaj, Davidson who all seem to have solid bottom 6 potential.

I hope that our 5th pick does not make the NHL next year. Well, not with the "don't look out of place" evaluation anyways.

 

[Egresch]

I hope that our 5th pick does not make the NHL next year. Well, not with the "don't look out of place" evaluation anyways.

For upcoming season I was counting Newhook-Dach- trade acquisition as our 2nd line. I do not expect 5OA to be with team in 24-25 season, too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For upcoming season I was counting Newhook-Dach- trade acquisition as our 2nd line. I do not expect 5OA to be with team in 24-25 season, too.

At this point in time, I am not sure we are going to do another Newhook or Dach type RFA add. Maybe we take a chance on Kakko at a cheaper costs. I think there is a real chance we consider signing Toffoli or Monahan vs trading for Necas or Zegras.

Still early yet. Lots of things can happen. We all know Hughes will turn every rock over in his search to add a top 6 to this core.

 

[sampollock]

He doesn’t get traded unless you watch the videos on TSN, come on

yes that is true. TSN can't take Figs, so let's make other stuff up

 

[Egresch]

At this point in time, I am not sure we are going to do another Newhook or Dach type RFA add. Maybe we take a chance on Kakko at a cheaper costs. I think there is a real chance we consider signing Toffoli or Monahan vs trading for Necas or Zegras.

Still early yet. Lots of things can happen. We all know Hughes will turn every rock over in his search to add a top 6 to this core.

For me, I see Kakko as the most realistic option as well and I would not be angry about it if he comes cheap. Still better option than trading Reinbacher for Zegras

 

[Sterling Archer]

For me, I see Kakko as the most realistic option as well and I would not be angry about it if he comes cheap. Still better option than trading Reinbacher for Zegras

Kakko was terrible in the playoffs. Soft as hell and zero impact on the games. I was actually disappointed as I had wanted Habs to trade for him as a rec project but I don't think there's saving him. I'd hard pass as there are many, better options out there and he just re-signed with the Rags anyways.

 

[417]

Kakko was terrible in the playoffs. Soft as hell and zero impact on the games. I was actually disappointed as I had wanted Habs to trade for him as a rec project but I don't think there's saving him. I'd hard pass as there are many, better options out there and he just re-signed with the Rags anyways.

Lafreniere was awful in the playoffs for the Rags last year too.

This year, he was one of their better forwards.

Playoff performances don't necessarily always repeat themselves, it can change from year to year, from player to player.

I'm not saying we should trade for Kakko, i'm pretty lukewarm on the idea because there are other projects i'd be interested in taking instead, but his playoff performance this year shouldn't be a reason why they shouldn't.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For me, I see Kakko as the most realistic option as well and I would not be angry about it if he comes cheap. Still better option than trading Reinbacher for Zegras

That's probably what's happening. Zegras and Necas cost too much in terms of what they are asking from us and we circle to other options we can afford. Or Hughes is trying to get a 3rd team in the mix where we get the assets either the Ducks or Canes want. Dach/13th/Romanov type trade

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kakko was terrible in the playoffs. Soft as hell and zero impact on the games. I was actually disappointed as I had wanted Habs to trade for him as a rec project but I don't think there's saving him. I'd hard pass as there are many, better options out there and he just re-signed with the Rags anyways.

You could say the same thing towards Newhook with the Avs in last year's playoffs. I think Kakko is a notch behind Newhook in terms of producing but it's not far off.

This would be buy low situation with the chances of MSL giving Kakko better development/opportunity. Kakko has Dach quality (pre draft). The pedigree is still there but he has to start turning the development needle soon.

Newhook was a late 1st and early 2nd right? Kakko may be two 2nd's. Avs 2nd and maybe a B+ prospect.

 

[Egresch]

Lafreniere was not awful for the Rangers in last year's playoffs. He played well and that's when he started to show signs. Just because he got 0 points, it doesn't really mean that he was awful. His puck possession and play making was noticeable IMO and I believe it was on a 3rd line with Kakko and Chytil.

Laf- Chytil- Kakko worked good last year, paradoxily Laf beeing the weak link. Laf got promoted to Panarin, Chytil was out with concussion and Kakko struggled after the injury with mediocre linemates. I do not want to advocate for him, but I think he just needs a change of scenery and it might work. This would be a "low-risk/medium to solid reward" move.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Laf- Chytil- Kakko worked good last year, paradoxily Laf beeing the weak link. Laf got promoted to Panarin, Chytil was out with concussion and Kakko struggled after the injury with mediocre linemates. I do not want to advocate for him, but I think he just needs a change of scenery and it might work. This would be a "low-risk/medium to solid reward" move.

It's certainly worth a shot depending on cost to acquire. Surely, it's cheaper than Newhook so two 2nd's or Avs 2nd and B+ prospect probably gets it done. If the Rangers ask for more than what we paid for Newhook, they are stuck with him.

I totally understand how some fans would be like meh towards this trade. However, if it's a cost we can afford, worth a shot. Kakko was highly rated like Dach (pre draft). If it don't work out, so what... The chances of 2nd rounders being better than who Kakko is today is slim.

 

[Sorinth]

It's certainly worth a shot depending on cost to acquire. Surely, it's cheaper than Newhook so two 2nd's or Avs 2nd and B+ prospect probably gets it done. If the Rangers ask for more than what we paid for Newhook, they are stuck with him.

I totally understand how some fans would be like meh towards this trade. However, if it's a cost we can afford, worth a shot. Kakko was highly rated like Dach (pre draft). If it don't work out, so what... The chances of 2nd rounders being better than who Kakko is today is slim.

I'm not really for or against Kakko but if your trading for him you are doing it because your hoping that the change of scenery unlocks that top-6 potential he had a draft day. Which means you are somewhat committed to at least starting him in the top-6 next year, which is probably fine for next year but will quickly become a problem even if he has a good year and puts up 50 points because we are just creating a log jam that will need to get cleared up. And that's even more true if we are looking to use our cap space either this year or next year on a big name forward.

 

[Miller Time]

I'm not really for or against Kakko but if your trading for him you are doing it because your hoping that the change of scenery unlocks that top-6 potential he had a draft day. Which means you are somewhat committed to at least starting him in the top-6 next year, which is probably fine for next year but will quickly become a problem even if he has a good year and puts up 50 points because we are just creating a log jam that will need to get cleared up. And that's even more true if we are looking to use our cap space either this year or next year on a big name forward.

Indeed... But that opportunity (to be supported in growing into top 6 on a team that can afford to stick with it through the growing pains) + his contract situation + his ability to be a relatively effective bottom 6 player are all well worth the risk that he doesn't unlock the top 6 potential or show enough progress to keep him there into '25-'26.

Assuming the cost of acquisition is reasonable (reclamation vs draft spot & potential)

 

[BaseballCoach]

That will take it's course with the depth coming in and the vets expiring. They are not overhauling this summer.

We are talking Ylonen and Pezz when they are probably watching games while Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia are playing?

I really don't care about an improved bottom 6 at this point in time. Just don't clutter it more. We are probably going to move up the standings a bit but playoffs are not happening. Might be another 2 seasons. Until then, lets not make our bottom 6 the primarily focus. We can work on that after our top 4D, Goaltending, and top 6F are sound.

I get your point, but a strong third linke is important. Even 4C. I agree for foirwards 11-14.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I get your point, but a strong third linke is important. Even 4C. I agree for foirwards 11-14.

Yes, I do like to talk 3rd line and top 9 a lot as well. But for now, we have to build a 2nd line before we can build the 3rd. But I do agree, when it matters (playoffs), we are going to need a very good 3rd line with a good 4th.

Teams with both skill and depth win now. Winning with top 6 and holes (Laughs/Leafs) just does not work. Leafs tried to build from the Pens model.

I think our prospect depth and expiring contracts are timed well in terms of how we shape our bottom 6F. I'm not worried about that part. But I am concerned with not enough top 6 like so many of us are.

Two key areas. Dach and who we pick in this draft. Dach has to be the center we think he can be and our 5th pick needs to be a real hit. Top 6F stud at a min or top line asset. I feel comfortable we can get one of Demidov, Iggy, Lindstrom.

 

[1909]

Anderson for Laine. Nothing more.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not really for or against Kakko but if your trading for him you are doing it because your hoping that the change of scenery unlocks that top-6 potential he had a draft day. Which means you are somewhat committed to at least starting him in the top-6 next year, which is probably fine for next year but will quickly become a problem even if he has a good year and puts up 50 points because we are just creating a log jam that will need to get cleared up. And that's even more true if we are looking to use our cap space either this year or next year on a big name forward.

Here is a question. What context or resume did Newhook have over Kakko? Newhook last summer vs Kakko this summer? Seems to me that both the Rangers and Avs tried both in their top 6 and it didn't work out.

Newhook had slightly better stats. Is Newhook more valued because he is the better skater? Without making this a derail, think about the fair differences between these two and why Newhook has a much better forecast vs Kakko (well it appears anyways)?

I'm not advocating for us to trade for Kakko. I'm meh on this. I just think this is the type of move we end up doing (vs the Zegras/Necas talks).

Anderson for Laine. Nothing more.

Most teams will offer a contract like Anderson. If you don't add on top of Anderson, you won't get Laine. Might not have to be the Jets 1st. Could be Mesar.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes, I do like to talk 3rd line and top 9 a lot as well. But for now, we have to build a 2nd line before we can build the 3rd. But I do agree, when it matters (playoffs), we are going to need a very good 3rd line with a good 4th.

Teams with both skill and depth win now. Winning with top 6 and holes (Laughs/Leafs) just does not work. Leafs tried to build from the Pens model.

I think our prospect depth and expiring contracts are timed well in terms of how we shape our bottom 6F. I'm not worried about that part. But I am concerned with not enough top 6 like so many of us are.

Two key areas. Dach and who we pick in this draft. Dach has to be the center we think he can be and our 5th pick needs to be a real hit. Top 6F stud at a min or top line asset. I feel comfortable we can get one of Demidov, Iggy, Lindstrom.

Berkly Catton is the best F after maybe Celebrini.

 

[Sorinth]

Here is a question. What context or resume did Newhook have over Kakko? Newhook last summer vs Kakko this summer? Seems to me that both the Rangers and Avs tried both in their top 6 and it didn't work out.

Newhook had slightly better stats. Is Newhook more valued because he is the better skater? Without making this a derail, think about the fair differences between these two and why Newhook has a much better forecast vs Kakko (well it appears anyways)?

I'm not advocating for us to trade for Kakko. I'm meh on this. I just think this is the type of move we end up doing (vs the Zegras/Necas talks).

It's an irrelevant question because we are not in the same position as a team anymore. We're no longer content to have a bad year and draft high again which we were last year. So putting an unproven guy in our top-6 has more downside then it did 1 year ago. On top of that last year there wasn't really any young internal options for that top-6 spot, which is not true today. Acquiring and playing Newhook in the top-6 last year meant pushing a guy like Gallagher out of the top-6, this year with Kakko it's pushing a guy like Roy or Newhook out of the top-6. Those aren't at all equal.

Indeed... But that opportunity (to be supported in growing into top 6 on a team that can afford to stick with it through the growing pains) + his contract situation + his ability to be a relatively effective bottom 6 player are all well worth the risk that he doesn't unlock the top 6 potential or show enough progress to keep him there into '25-'26.

Assuming the cost of acquisition is reasonable (reclamation vs draft spot & potential)

That's just it, we probably aren't really in a position to stick with it through growing pains anymore. So sure if it's basically free then why not, but that seems unlikely to me.