Proposal: Tor-ana

[Puckstuff]

Furthermore, if we're getting Lindholm we could justify moving Carrick. I know Quality > Quantity... but that's a lot of quality in the quantity.

JVR - Big man who can score
Brown - will be 30 goal guy
Carrick - 60 point d-man potential
1st round pick - probably top 10

 

[BlueBaron]

Does anyone really see us trading our first round pick? The value is probably there regardless of what duck fans think but the Leafs would never do this type of deal at present.

To the OP, we are rebuilding, we did not rehire Brian Burke.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Furthermore, if we're getting Lindholm we could justify moving Carrick. I know Quality > Quantity... but that's a lot of quality in the quantity.

JVR - Big man who can score
Brown - will be 30 goal guy
Carrick - 60 point d-man potential
1st round pick - probably top 10

Damn that is some generous scouting

 

[anezthes]

If the contract is a problem and there gonna trade him that's top value you'll get. I could understand if you want more of a one for one, rather than quality for quantity . But that's top value for
quantity and probably makes ANA a better team

TOR
2017 1st round
2018 2nd round
JVR @ 2 mil
Connor Brown/Martin Marincin

ANA
Lindholm
Cap Dump

Discuss....

Horrible. Not in a million years. You start with Nylander/Marner and then add.

Damn that is some generous scouting

Right?

 

[Ducks in a row]

Furthermore, if we're getting Lindholm we could justify moving Carrick. I know Quality > Quantity... but that's a lot of quality in the quantity.

JVR - Big man who can score
Brown - will be 30 goal guy
Carrick - 60 point d-man potential
1st round pick - probably top 10

JVR is UFA after next season and will be demanding a lot of money we won't pay him.

Brown is 22 year old (23 in January) prospect with 2 goals in 11 NHL games. He will need to take a big step to be a 30 goal a season player.

Carrick is a defenseman something we don't need and want. Odds of him being a 60 point defenseman are very low.

Possibly top 10 pick who knows after Maple Leafs add Lindholm to their blueline.

Not trading Lindholm for that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Damn that is some generous scouting

Horrible. Not in a million years. You start with Nylander/Marner and then add.



Right?

That was too generous for Carrick & Brown, no doubt. Both look like NHL'ers, doubtful that either is an impact player - Middle 6 for Brown, Bottom 4 for Carrick with some offensive upside if he gets PP time

JVR is a top line winger on a line where he's not the best player (the James Neal to a Malkin/Crosby type), and we would have to surprise alot of people for that 1st rounder to be lower than 10th, so that poster isn't wrong on those accounts

So, top line (non-franchise) winger + top 10 pick as starting point...doesn't that come close to the value of a Marner/Nylander? I would think so

Do Ducks fans see their team as a contender or a rebuilding team? If it's a contender, doesn't it make sense to get some guys who are contributing right away with a track record if you're going to lose Lindholm?

I'm not a fan of the deal, would rather keep the top 10 pick and do more of a JVR for futures if we're getting rid of him, but value wise this doesn't seem far off, or far off of Marner/Nylander+

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

That was too generous for Carrick & Brown, no doubt. Both look like NHL'ers, doubtful that either is an impact player - Middle 6 for Brown, Bottom 4 for Carrick with some offensive upside if he gets PP time

JVR is a top line winger on a line where he's not the best player (the James Neal to a Malkin/Crosby type), and we would have to surprise alot of people for that 1st rounder to be lower than 10th, so that poster isn't wrong on those accounts

So, top line (non-franchise) winger + top 10 pick as starting point...doesn't that come close to the value of a Marner/Nylander? I would think so

Do Ducks fans see their team as a contender or a rebuilding team? If it's a contender, doesn't it make sense to get some guys who are contributing right away with a track record if you're going to lose Lindholm?

I'm not a fan of the deal, would rather keep the top 10 pick and do more of a JVR for futures if we're getting rid of him, but value wise this doesn't seem far off, or far off of Marner/Nylander+

The problem is people think we have to lose lindholm which isn't the case at all, and if were trading lindholm we might as well rebuild tbh.

We see ourselves as contenders... trading lindholm is not a move that makes any sense to us, even if we were rebuilding lindholm would be a key piece to the rebuild. If we did trade lindholm it would have to be a high quality piece, no package deals. Jvr contract is up next year and will prob price out of Anaheim so that isn't a starting point at all if we moved lindholm would be a long cost controlled legit top line winger/center like a marner Matthews or nylander but I think nylander and marner likely get a small add to get lindholm.

I get Toronto fans wont want to pay that price but honestly #1s don't come cheap specially 22 year olds that still have a ton of room to grow and play. Seth jones got a 1c, Larsson got a top 5 winger... lindholm is > both those players so expect to pay a bit more, and do to the fact we don't want to move him and consider him untouchable you should expect a further over pay.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

And for the record if JVR + your first was able to get a top young dmen, you guys likely would have already pulled that trigger, unfortunately for you guys its not what would be asked for.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The problem is people think we have to lose lindholm which isn't the case at all, and if were trading lindholm we might as well rebuild tbh.

We see ourselves as contenders... trading lindholm is not a move that makes any sense to us, even if we were rebuilding lindholm would be a key piece to the rebuild. If we did trade lindholm it would have to be a high quality piece, no package deals. Jvr contract is up next year and will prob price out of Anaheim so that isn't a starting point at all if we moved lindholm would be a long cost controlled legit top line winger/center like a marner Matthews or nylander but I think nylander and marner likely get a small add to get lindholm.

I get Toronto fans wont want to pay that price but honestly #1s don't come cheap specially 22 year olds that still have a ton of room to grow and play. Seth jones got a 1c, Larsson got a top 5 winger... lindholm is > both those players so expect to pay a bit more, and do to the fact we don't want to move him and consider him untouchable you should expect a further over pay.

I get the want to keep Lindholm, I think he's only moved if the cap part doesn't fit.

My question was why does anyone think that the OP deal is less valuable than Marner/Nylander+? JVR+a top 10 pick isn't trash at all, And Brown/Carrick/2nd are all decent, affordable secondary pieces. Value-wise, if you see Nylander/Marner+ as fair value for Lindholm then the OP deal is very similar value in a different configuration

Also, should not use the Hall/Larsson trade as a benchmark, universally condemned as a terrible trade for Edm immediately.

If a "Hockey Trade" is more along the lines of what Ana is after IF Lindholm was available, then fair enough, Toronto isn't your dance partner if you're looking for a 22-24 year old star player

 

[Randy Randerson]

And for the record if JVR + your first was able to get a top young dmen, you guys likely would have already pulled that trigger, unfortunately for you guys its not what would be asked for.

and for the record, I don't believe this is true. The leafs fanbase and very likely management has a dman in mind with that pick

For Dmen, or players in general of Lindholm's age and skill level, its rare that they become available to be able to make any offer

What would be asked for is very much case-specific to the needs of the team with that young player

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I get the want to keep Lindholm, I think he's only moved if the cap part doesn't fit.

My question was why does anyone think that the OP deal is less valuable than Marner/Nylander+? JVR+a top 10 pick isn't trash at all, And Brown/Carrick/2nd are all decent, affordable secondary pieces. Value-wise, if you see Nylander/Marner+ as fair value for Lindholm then the OP deal is very similar value in a different configuration

Also, should not use the Hall/Larsson trade as a benchmark, universally condemned as a terrible trade for Edm immediately.

If a "Hockey Trade" is more along the lines of what Ana is after IF Lindholm was available, then fair enough, Toronto isn't your dance partner if you're looking for a 22-24 year old star player

I think Larsson is the type of player that Edmonton needed to help their back end... he puts up lindholm type #s in his own end, only issue with Larsson is his offensive side is a bit lacking, hall was expendable but likely wasn't going to get a lindholm type player so they settled on Larsson I personally think it was a great move as far as trying to make yourself into a contender.

Value wise its prob okay or close, the problem is most pieces of lindholms caliber are going to be sold for a 1 for 1 type deal not a package. If we were rebuilding(even then lindholm fits what wed want in a rebuild) then a package might work.

You have to give to get, if you are unwilling to part with 1 of your 4 best players for our best player, we are prob not very good trade partners.

Ritchie + our 1st + Montour for nylander ... deal?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

and for the record, I don't believe this is true. The leafs fanbase and very likely management has a dman in mind with that pick

For Dmen, or players in general of Lindholm's age and skill level, its rare that they become available to be able to make any offer

What would be asked for is very much case-specific to the needs of the team with that young player

I actually think that pick will be a 10-15 range pick... idk what dmen are available at that spot but the likely hood they become lindholm is pretty slim and likely 2-3 years away from being an impactful player to the leafs team.


I feel like you guys are more or less out of the rebuild phase and are looking to make that 1 move to make you a playoff team .... the oilers did that with Larsson and honestly I think they will compete for a playoff spot and even make it... and I think if the leafs make a move to get a top 4 dmen they could be knocking on that door too.

Lindholm isn't available so all these posts/threads are just wishful thinking/speculation

 

[Randy Randerson]

I think Larsson is the type of player that Edmonton needed to help their back end... he puts up lindholm type #s in his own end, only issue with Larsson is his offensive side is a bit lacking, hall was expendable but likely wasn't going to get a lindholm type player so they settled on Larsson I personally think it was a great move as far as trying to make yourself into a contender.

Value wise its prob okay or close, the problem is most pieces of lindholms caliber are going to be sold for a 1 for 1 type deal not a package. If we were rebuilding(even then lindholm fits what wed want in a rebuild) then a package might work.

You have to give to get, if you are unwilling to part with 1 of your 4 best players for our best player, we are prob not very good trade partners.

Ritchie + our 1st + Montour for nylander ... deal?

What I'm saying is, value-wise, JVR+our 1st is very similar value to Nylander or Marner. To me it seems like JVR+1st is more in line with Ana's current needs as a contending team, so I didn't understand the "this is terrible value, start with Marner/Nylander and add" sentiment because I see those as similar packages unless you think that Marner/Nylander are better than JVR this year which they could be, but that's a gamble without the track record to support

That package for Nylander is actually pretty appealing to me, I would think long and hard on it and probably do it....so, sure?

I actually think that pick will be a 10-15 range pick... idk what dmen are available at that spot but the likely hood they become lindholm is pretty slim and likely 2-3 years away from being an impactful player to the leafs team.


I feel like you guys are more or less out of the rebuild phase and are looking to make that 1 move to make you a playoff team .... the oilers did that with Larsson and honestly I think they will compete for a playoff spot and even make it... and I think if the leafs make a move to get a top 4 dmen they could be knocking on that door too.

Lindholm isn't available so all these posts/threads are just wishful thinking/speculation

I don't actually want the leafs to do the OP deal, I want our pick. Being a 15-20 team for the leafs is better than most analysts have us, and better than Vegas has us (opening odds as tied for last place at 100-1). So that may be your opinion but its not a popular one, and there's a real chance that its a top 5 pick which could mean Liljegren who's upside certainly is in Lindholm's range

The first 20 games will be telling, but at best I'd say we're on the upswing with a few holes still to fill with long term solutions, noteably top pair RHD. The kids have looked good so far, but its just 4 games and they could slump easily...and we're 1-1-2 so its not like the results have been that good

and yes, these threads are speculation, but its a fantasy hockey forum where that's explicitly stated in the title. Our teams have been favourite trade partners of eachother in real life, and we're in opposite stages of the cap/competitiveness cycle so to me it makes a lot of sense that they would continue dealing

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What I'm saying is, value-wise, JVR+our 1st is very similar value to Nylander or Marner. To me it seems like JVR+1st is more in line with Ana's current needs as a contending team, so I didn't understand the "this is terrible value, start with Marner/Nylander and add" sentiment because I see those as similar packages unless you think that Marner/Nylander are better than JVR this year which they could be, but that's a gamble without the track record to support

That package for Nylander is actually pretty appealing to me, I would think long and hard on it and probably do it....so, sure?



I don't actually want the leafs to do the OP deal, I want our pick. Being a 15-20 team for the leafs is better than most analysts have us, and better than Vegas has us (opening odds as tied for last place at 100-1). So that may be your opinion but its not a popular one, and there's a real chance that its a top 5 pick which could mean Liljegren who's upside certainly is in Lindholm's range

The first 20 games will be telling, but at best I'd say we're on the upswing with a few holes still to fill with long term solutions, noteably top pair RHD

and yes, these threads are speculation, but its a fantasy hockey forum where that's explicitly stated in the title

Well I think you guys will make a move for a Decent dmen that will improve the back end a lot, there no doubt you guys have a lot of forward talent.. young but still talented and explosive if you can add a dependable dmen to go along with gardnir and rielly + Andersen things could very easily start clicking, you also have a great coach, and I like Lou because he seems like the kinda guy that will make the moves necessary to make you guys a contender.

Current roster that pick might be earlier, but I fully expect a solid move for a dmen sometime this season.

I think the problem with the jvr and a 1st idea, is if you put Lindholm on torontos D... chances are you guys are fighting for a playoff spot if not making the playoffs, so the value of that pick lowers quickly, and the fact that Jvr is UFA in 2 years means we likely wont be able to keep him after that, so if we move lindholm we were to move lindholm wed likely want someone we can control for a while.

 

[Aintboutdatlyfe*]

Nope. You dont get a player like Lindholm w/o giving up 1 of the big 3

You don't get the big 3, period

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You don't get the big 3, period

And that's okay... the thread was again originally made by Leaf fans... I don't think you can find a thread where ducks fans have offered lindholm to the leafs cause guess what hes not available.

 

[BlueBaron]

I actually think that pick will be a 10-15 range pick... idk what dmen are available at that spot but the likely hood they become lindholm is pretty slim and likely 2-3 years away from being an impactful player to the leafs team.


I feel like you guys are more or less out of the rebuild phase and are looking to make that 1 move to make you a playoff team .... the oilers did that with Larsson and honestly I think they will compete for a playoff spot and even make it... and I think if the leafs make a move to get a top 4 dmen they could be knocking on that door too.

Lindholm isn't available so all these posts/threads are just wishful thinking/speculation

We are still rebuilding or we would have been more aggressive in the summer with Free agents and would not be putting out 6-7 rookies every night. We are going to be an exciting Team that can score this year but we will also give up a lot of goals.

I think next year we will change our approach.

 

[Sojourn]

You don't get the big 3, period

And you don't get a Hampus Lindholm without giving up something that would hurt.

Period.

See how this works? There are two sides in a trade, not just the one.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I'm curious how does adding Lindholm keep the Leafs a bottom 5 team? You add Lindholm and either put him with Rielly or Gardiner, then that top 4 becomes one of the best if not the best in the league. Bottom 6 isn't the worst either. You lose JVR, sure, but with Mathews, Nylander, Marner (who some Leafs fans seem to think he's already the next Gretzky), and the rest of the forward core isn't too bad (even without JVR).

Didn't realize Lindholm somehow turned into Bobby Orr during the offseason.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We are still rebuilding or we would have been more aggressive in the summer with Free agents and would not be putting out 6-7 rookies every night. We are going to be an exciting Team that can score this year but we will also give up a lot of goals.

I think next year we will change our approach.

Was there really any Free agents that were available that would have helped you guys this year, your biggest need is a dmen(obviously expierence amongst your young players)... I don't recall any really good dmen in the FA market last summer, and usually they don't make it there, you'll likely have to hope for 1 through the draft which will take a lil time or make a move, and honestly I could see the leafs making a move for a dmen if something comes available... id be shocked if they wernt at least asking bout guys like fowler and trouba.


Guess well see but if you guys stay competitive and in the race for a while, I def can see you guys moving in on a dmen if any are available... and like I said its hard to fix defense without making a trade or drafting well, and drafting takes bit of time before you even see those players.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Didn't realize Lindholm somehow turned into Bobby Orr during the offseason.

Having lindholm rielly and gardnir is pretty impressive from a defense stand point, lindholm is a huge upgrade basically over all your dmen(with exception of rielly), if you add lindholm you arnt drafting in the top 5 I can tell you that much unless he gets injuried.

 

[Willy Styles]

A lot of people don't like quantity for quality deals because many people believer the team that gets the best player wins the deal. I sure as hell wouldn't trade any of the big three for anything other than an equivalent stud at a position of need and not a package of a lesser players and picks

 

[CamelToews]

Would you guys trade Rielly for any of these packages? I wouldn't, so Anaheim won't do that for Lindholm either.

 

[Willy Styles]

Would you guys trade Rielly for any of these packages? I wouldn't, so Anaheim won't do that for Lindholm either.

The difference is Reilly is signed long term, if the contract issue does not resolve I can't see Anaheim holding out for the whole season

 

[Randy Randerson]

Well I think you guys will make a move for a Decent dmen that will improve the back end a lot, there no doubt you guys have a lot of forward talent.. young but still talented and explosive if you can add a dependable dmen to go along with gardnir and rielly + Andersen things could very easily start clicking, you also have a great coach, and I like Lou because he seems like the kinda guy that will make the moves necessary to make you guys a contender.

Current roster that pick might be earlier, but I fully expect a solid move for a dmen sometime this season.

I think the problem with the jvr and a 1st idea, is if you put Lindholm on torontos D... chances are you guys are fighting for a playoff spot if not making the playoffs, so the value of that pick lowers quickly, and the fact that Jvr is UFA in 2 years means we likely wont be able to keep him after that, so if we move lindholm we were to move lindholm wed likely want someone we can control for a while.

Zaitsev has looked really good in the early stages as well, so it looks like we have one upgrade. I think I would be more interested in a deal around Manson from Anaheim than Lindholm because of the price difference and that we need RHD. Lindholm is probably the building block there for the version of the ducks after the Getz/Perry era so I do think he ends up staying

I think the prices for JVR comparables actually fell last year - Ladd/Okposo/Lucic all got $6mil and Bobby Ryan got $7.5mil in 2014. It seems like these guys all tier together, even though there's a bit of a difference in talent IMO. Not sure if that kind of commitment would fit in Ana, but he's on a very team friendly contract for the next 2 seasons which I think should be a big focus for the ducks with Getz and Perry in their early 30's. You guys should be a championship caliber team now - focus on winning a cup kind of thing

I could see JVR as a fit for Ana if we decide that we won't be competitive in time, probably not as part of a Lindholm trade