Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 8

[rmartin65]

I fully agree on length of careers not being apples-to-apples comparisons across eras. I penalized Frank McGee hard for that in my original list, and softened a bit on it when he came up for voting, partly due to appreciating this fact more by the time he arrived. You mentioned Dolly Swift as an example of a player with excellent longevity, and I recognize his scoring numbers, but as you said he appears to receive less praise than you'd expect. Goal scorers whose numbers outweigh their notoriety are another demographic I don't rate highly (though I actually did rank Dolly on my list).

Yeah, I've started to become a lot lower on the scorers without notoriety as well. I'm actually trying to put together a post about the early era scoring guys and how there are a couple of guys that spike before disappearing rather quickly, as I think that is something that may speak in MacDougall's favor. I don't know if I'll finish before the week's voting though.

Beyond Swift, who else from Campbell's years lasted into the mid-to-late 90s? You'd know off the top of your head faster than I could re-reading your season recaps. A comparison of Campbell's longevity with his contemporaries could be useful, to me at least, as somebody who cares about that as an important metric.

I'm going to have to double back, but from guys who debuted in the 1880s, I'm thinking of Cameron, Stewart, Paton, and Archie Hodgson from the MAAA team. Dave Brown from the Crystals, I think. There's undoubtedly more, as I keep thinking of names. None of them peaked as high as Campbell, but this is making me re-think the average career length now. Thanks!

 

[rmartin65]

Some of the stats tables @ResilientBeast has posted over the past couple weeks (edited to remove players already added to the list), plus a selection of quotes I posted about Ernie Russell-

My spreadsheets are doing some funky things, so any errors are unintentional but here are similar tables for all eligible forwards

OC% - Percent of the teams GF the player had a point on
Vs1 - Traditional percentage vs #1 league scorer
VsT - Percentage vs team scoring leager

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Bernie Morris, probably in terms of outright consistency the second best PCHA scorer ever.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1915-1916PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

32​

[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

31.68%​

[/TD]

[TD]

91.43%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1917-1918PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

32​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

28.32%​

[/TD]

[TD]

74.42%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

37​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

54​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

27.14%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

24.74%​

[/TD]

[TD]

80.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

21.74%​

[/TD]

[TD]

83.33%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

21.30%​

[/TD]

[TD]

71.88%​

[/TD]

[TD]

76.67%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]

18.44%​

[/TD]

[TD]

47.27%​

[/TD]

[TD]

92.86%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

17.42%​

[/TD]

[TD]

57.50%​

[/TD]

[TD]

67.65%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

10.75%​

[/TD]

[TD]

22.22%​

[/TD]

[TD]

37.04%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925NHL[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.86%​

[/TD]

[TD]

4.35%​

[/TD]

[TD]

8.33%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.46%​

[/TD]

[TD]

9.09%​

[/TD]

[TD]

13.64%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Bernie Morris[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.36%​

[/TD]

[TD]

6.06%​

[/TD]

[TD]

6.06%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Jack Walker, had some offensive pop but was a let down between 1914-1924 offensively

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914NHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

36​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

80.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915NHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

19.39%​

[/TD]

[TD]

55.88%​

[/TD]

[TD]

70.37%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1915-1916PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

18.81%​

[/TD]

[TD]

54.29%​

[/TD]

[TD]

59.38%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

13.07%​

[/TD]

[TD]

48.15%​

[/TD]

[TD]

48.15%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

10.87%​

[/TD]

[TD]

41.67%​

[/TD]

[TD]

50.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

13.10%​

[/TD]

[TD]

33.33%​

[/TD]

[TD]

37.93%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

9.26%​

[/TD]

[TD]

31.25%​

[/TD]

[TD]

33.33%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

12.37%​

[/TD]

[TD]

40.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

50.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.31%​

[/TD]

[TD]

41.82%​

[/TD]

[TD]

82.14%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

19.83%​

[/TD]

[TD]

74.19%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

11.11%​

[/TD]

[TD]

42.42%​

[/TD]

[TD]

46.67%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1925-1926WHL[/TD]
[TD]Jack Walker[/TD]

[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

15.74%​

[/TD]

[TD]

38.64%​

[/TD]

[TD]

70.83%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Same caveat for Noble as for Pitre, I don't know exactly when he played where so the data is presented as is. Led or was pretty close to leading his team 3 seasons while consistent production. His OC% numbers are among the lowest for eligible, just barely ahead of Jack Walker

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917NHA[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

51​

[/TD]

[TD]

15.38%​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

66.67%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917NHA[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

3.54%​

[/TD]

[TD]

8.33%​

[/TD]

[TD]

12.50%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1917-1918NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

30​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

40​

[/TD]

[TD]

35​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.32%​

[/TD]

[TD]

83.33%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

35​

[/TD]

[TD]

15.63%​

[/TD]

[TD]

45.45%​

[/TD]

[TD]

88.24%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]

52​

[/TD]

[TD]

19.53%​

[/TD]

[TD]

67.35%​

[/TD]

[TD]

91.67%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

54​

[/TD]

[TD]

18.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

62.79%​

[/TD]

[TD]

71.05%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

18.06%​

[/TD]

[TD]

60.87%​

[/TD]

[TD]

73.68%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

47​

[/TD]

[TD]

17.29%​

[/TD]

[TD]

62.16%​

[/TD]

[TD]

62.16%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

79​

[/TD]

[TD]

20.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

70.83%​

[/TD]

[TD]

89.47%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

56​

[/TD]

[TD]

26.03%​

[/TD]

[TD]

41.30%​

[/TD]

[TD]

95.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.74%​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.17%​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.17%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1925-1926NHL[/TD]
[TD]Reg Noble[/TD]

[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

96​

[/TD]

[TD]

13.53%​

[/TD]

[TD]

42.86%​

[/TD]

[TD]

42.86%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Tommy Dunderdale has strong team based production (VsT) outside of a 3 year lull when the Victoria team folded.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910NHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

27.45%​

[/TD]

[TD]

43.75%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911NHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]

17.86%​

[/TD]

[TD]

35.71%​

[/TD]

[TD]

88.24%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]

29.63%​

[/TD]

[TD]

88.89%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

36​

[/TD]

[TD]

29.29%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

34​

[/TD]

[TD]

21.37%​

[/TD]

[TD]

71.79%​

[/TD]

[TD]

90.32%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

29.03%​

[/TD]

[TD]

60.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1915-1916PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

45​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.04%​

[/TD]

[TD]

48.57%​

[/TD]

[TD]

58.62%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]

141​

[/TD]

[TD]

15.76%​

[/TD]

[TD]

48.15%​

[/TD]

[TD]

57.78%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1917-1918PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

57​

[/TD]

[TD]

20.62%​

[/TD]

[TD]

46.51%​

[/TD]

[TD]

95.24%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

26.47%​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]

35​

[/TD]

[TD]

35.87%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.53%​

[/TD]

[TD]

62.50%​

[/TD]

[TD]

62.50%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

37​

[/TD]

[TD]

19.59%​

[/TD]

[TD]

63.33%​

[/TD]

[TD]

76.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923PCHA[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.35%​

[/TD]

[TD]

3.64%​

[/TD]

[TD]

3.64%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.83%​

[/TD]

[TD]

5.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

6.45%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.70%​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.50%​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.50%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Because why not, here is the same data for the defensemen (I know I'm missing seasons, I didn't get every league off SIHR before I let my membership lapse)



[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Herb Gardiner, looks pretty good in this stretch but doesn't really stand out when compared to Joe Simpson IMO.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921Big 4Ab[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

10.20%​

[/TD]

[TD]

35.71%​

[/TD]

[TD]

47.62%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

6.54%​

[/TD]

[TD]

12.50%​

[/TD]

[TD]

22.58%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

9.02%​

[/TD]

[TD]

27.91%​

[/TD]

[TD]

37.50%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

7.58%​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

29.41%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925WCHL[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]

8​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

13.61%​

[/TD]

[TD]

60.61%​

[/TD]

[TD]

60.61%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1925-1926WHL[/TD]
[TD]Herb Gardiner[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

3.88%​

[/TD]

[TD]

9.09%​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Sorry all for the delay being active, finally a perfect storm kind of week.

Punch Broadbent, led his team in scoring on 4 separate occasions, but during only one of those seasons did he have a Vs1 higher than 80% (he did get close in 1915)

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]21.15%[/TD]
[TD]45.83%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914NHA[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]61[/TD]
[TD]13.00%[/TD]
[TD]28.89%[/TD]
[TD]46.43%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915NHA[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]115[/TD]
[TD]28.13%[/TD]
[TD]79.41%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]6.19%[/TD]
[TD]21.21%[/TD]
[TD]25.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]13.59%[/TD]
[TD]51.02%[/TD]
[TD]60.98%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1920-1921NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]3.45%[/TD]
[TD]11.63%[/TD]
[TD]12.82%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]26.14%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1922-1923NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]12.00%[/TD]
[TD]40.54%[/TD]
[TD]44.12%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1923-1924NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]11.40%[/TD]
[TD]54.17%[/TD]
[TD]54.17%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]27.40%[/TD]
[TD]43.48%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1925-1926NHL[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]112[/TD]
[TD]12.78%[/TD]
[TD]40.48%[/TD]
[TD]40.48%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Ernie Russell, I am also quite shook to realize he and Pitre are practically the same age. On paper his peak looks pretty decent as that transitional star between Bowie-Taylor/Lalonde but as @rmartin65 has showed in his detailed breakdown he wasn't quite the star the numbers make him look to be.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1905-1906ECAHA[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]13.00[/TD]
[TD]25.84%[/TD]
[TD]69.70%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1906-1907ECAHA[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]26.00[/TD]
[TD]36.22%[/TD]
[TD]97.87%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1907-1908ECAHA[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]37.00[/TD]
[TD]25.61%[/TD]
[TD]70.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910NHA[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]51.00[/TD]
[TD]35.16%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911NHA[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]56.00[/TD]
[TD]20.00%[/TD]
[TD]47.62%[/TD]
[TD]95.24%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912NHA[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]47.00[/TD]
[TD]22.94%[/TD]
[TD]62.50%[/TD]
[TD]80.65%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]48.00[/TD]
[TD]7.14%[/TD]
[TD]16.67%[/TD]
[TD]26.67%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]21.00[/TD]
[TD]3.68%[/TD]
[TD]13.33%[/TD]
[TD]13.64%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Tommy Smith, strong offensive peak on a team with Joe Malone. Managing to keep up in scoring with one of the best goal scorers of the era.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1905-1906ECAHA[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]12.00[/TD]
[TD]5.41%[/TD]
[TD]18.18%[/TD]
[TD]18.75%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1906-1907IHL[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]47.00[/TD]
[TD]26.99%[/TD]
[TD]68.75%[/TD]
[TD]73.33%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]30.00[/TD]
[TD]32.80%[/TD]
[TD]85.42%[/TD]
[TD]85.42%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]35.00[/TD]
[TD]30.20%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]29.00[/TD]
[TD]21.01%[/TD]
[TD]73.53%[/TD]
[TD]96.15%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]14.00[/TD]
[TD]19.39%[/TD]
[TD]55.88%[/TD]
[TD]76.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1915-1916NHA[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]30.00[/TD]
[TD]15.57%[/TD]
[TD]48.72%[/TD]
[TD]54.29%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]32.00[/TD]
[TD]10.62%[/TD]
[TD]25.00%[/TD]
[TD]37.50%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920NHL[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]11.00[/TD]
[TD]0.71%[/TD]
[TD]2.04%[/TD]
[TD]2.04%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I don't think he's a serious contender for a slot anytime soon but more on Broadbent's offense as this also touches on Dunderdale. Posting those tables earlier about their times leading their team in scoring. Here are ther 15 worst seasons (defined as lowest Vs1) by a team points leader (1917-18 Wanderers removed because they folded mid season)

PCHA/NHA/NHL/WCHL/WHL only

Lowercase positions are vetted by me, full names are from SIHR and have not been verified season by season

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1918-1919PCHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]26.47%[/TD]
[TD]25.00%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1921-1922WCHL[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Rusty Crawford[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]16.83%[/TD]
[TD]30.36%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Harry Smith[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]20.78%[/TD]
[TD]33.33%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911NHA[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Jack McDonald[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]20.24%[/TD]
[TD]40.48%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1924-1925NHL[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]27.40%[/TD]
[TD]43.48%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910NHA[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]27.45%[/TD]
[TD]43.75%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910NHA[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Don Smith[/TD]
[TD]Rover[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD]27.45%[/TD]
[TD]43.75%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1925-1926NHL[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]Hib Milks[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]17.59%[/TD]
[TD]45.24%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913NHA[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Harry Broadbent[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]21.15%[/TD]
[TD]45.83%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917NHA[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Eddie Oatman[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]25.58%[/TD]
[TD]45.83%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913PCHA[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Ran McDonald[/TD]
[TD]F[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]20.59%[/TD]
[TD]48.28%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913PCHA[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Charles Tobin[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]20.59%[/TD]
[TD]48.28%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913PCHA[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Eddie Oatman[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]20.59%[/TD]
[TD]48.28%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1917-1918PCHA[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Eddie Oatman[/TD]
[TD]Right Wing[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]21.65%[/TD]
[TD]48.84%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Some Ernie Russell quotes/commentary (first 4 years of his career):

1905-
“Russell did excellent service on the Montreal forward line”

“The Montreal forward line showed improvement since the opening game against National, and the busiest worker of the lot was Russell, who was always after the puck"

“He made some great plays that [Ernie] Russell, for a comparatively new man"

“[Ernie] Russell kept flying about with amazing rapidity. He was here, there and everywhere, and once or twice he made most unmerciful swipes at pursuers”

“The Montreal defence was fine, Russell and Johnson, of the Montreal forward line, played a good game"

"On the forward line all worked hard, especially Johnston, Coulson, and Russell.

"Montreal gave a nice exhibition of clean, fast hockey, Russell and Sargent in particular showing up well"

1906-
“Russell was all around the best forward. His play was cool and heady and that he was effective may be seen in the fact that he came next to Johnson in the scoring line with four goals"

“Ernie Russell at centre played the all around good game, using his head in fine style and keeping free from any dirty work”

“Russell had up till then played a fast clean game and his loss was a severe one for the Wanderers"

“The Wanderers were a disappointment. Ernie Russell was missing from the centre position and his loss was apparent in the lack of cohesion in the forwards’ play”

“Ernie Russell was out again and did some very good work”

“Russell was back in his old place at centre, for the first time since he was injured in the game in Ottawa, and was easily the pick of the Wanderer forward line”

“Lester Patrick and Ernie Russell were the pick of the forwards, though when they wanted to play Pud Glass and Ernie Johnson pranced into the limelight"

“Russell and Johnston played steadily and effectively, but each moved away from his wing”

“He [Russell] had been a thorn in the Ottawa’s side for hours. He had done some of the most magnificent work in the way of shooting ever seen at a hockey match here, and they had been unable to effectually stop his shots, so there was nothing to do but to ‘put him out of business’, and Moore took it upon himself to do so. He has gained high honors as an executioner, and he did his work very well this time”

“Russell, as a rule, was waiting on the side for the puck to come his way, and shoot with admirable position almost from the very spot where it reached his stick, while Glass would walk in with it pretty well”

“Russell, that dangerous little wing…”

“Certainly Johnson and Russell moved all over the shop in that game, just as they did in previous ones, and their wanderings and failing had a considerable effect in the rising score of Ottawa”

“Russell’s strong point is that he is a dangerous shot, Johnson that he is fast and a hard worker”

"For Wanderer, Menard and Patrick were the king pins. The former staved off defeat by his marvellous stops, while Patrick was responsible for the goals scored for his team. Ernie Russell was good in his checking and following up, but rarely got away on a rush”

1907-
"Russell was speedy and seemed to be working along, but his play was then not as good as usual"

“On the other side, Blair Russell had the best of his namesake" [Blair Russell was matched up on Ernie Russell, and it sounds like Blair got the better of the contest]

“Russell performed well in the centre, and inasmuch as he captured five of the Wanderer goals, his scoring ability was no small factor in his team’s victory"

“Blachford and Johnson kept the centre supplied all through the game, and Russell and Glass were always in their place to take the expected pass"

“Blatchford played a stronger game than he has played for some time, and the two ‘Ernies’, Russell and Johnson, also did some good steady work”

"The best shot of the bunch and one of the prettiest stick handlers in the game is Ernie Russell. He was at all times very dangerous and was watched pretty closely, but scored about half of the goals for his team"

"Glass, Johnston and Blachford followed back effectively, but Russell loafed”

“Without desiring to say a word in disparagement of Ernie Russell, it is highly probably that the poor exhibition he gave last winter in Ottawa, March 17 was the day that had something to do in Saturday’s results. In the final of the famous series, Russell was a fifth wheel and his services were of little value. On Saturday Ernie Russell played a game that Bowie could well be proud of. Russell took a leaf out of Bowie’s book and jumped for the proper spot near the goal, with the result that six of the tallies are credited to him alone. Not only did Russell loom large on the score sheet, but he earned his goals, and a brace of the were taken after dashing, dodging runs.”

“The Wanderer forwards were steady and useful throughout; Russell sometimes rose to brilliancy, but on the whole their forte was steadiness rather than showiness. The pick of the line was Johnson, this despite the array of goals credited to Russell"

“Russell was at his best as a scorer and six of the Wanderers’ ten are notched up to his credit. His game was useful at all times; he did not mix it up like Blachford and Johnson on the wing, but he hovered around the Ottawa poles in a way that proved deadly to the Senators and Harry Smith had nothing on him tonight for ability to get rid of the disc speedily and accurately. In addition his falling back and checking in centre ice proved useful to the defence"

Originally posted in an ATD thread, so there are redactions: "The story of Russell's desertion was told and retold and garnished with much detail of circumstance. It was said that Russell had been left off the team to meet Ottawa tonight, and that UNDRAFTED (who I don't think as ever actually been selected in the ATD [I believe Cecil Blachford was the name mentioned]) had been selected to play on the wing. The reason for this move was that it was considered that Ernie Russell had failed to hold down Smith in the now famous match in Ottawa. Alf. Smith will play on the wing tonight, so UNDRAFTED [again, Blachford] was selected for the position because of his general ability, and also for the reason that he is a stiff check and more likely to break a lance with the sturdy Smith boy."

"When Russell found that he was not on the team, so it is said, he gathered up his belongings in the Wanderer room at the Arena, and removed them"

1908-
"Ernie Russell, the scoring man of the team, seemed to have an attack of stage fright and he kept well away from the Ottawa defence"

"Ernie Russell, the famous footballer, who caused all the trouble in the Interprovincial Football Union, was up against a situation he could not master. Russell was never prominent, loafing and laying back throughout. The tell-tale aggressiveness which characterized his work on the occasion of his last appearance here was missing, he could not carry the rubber and his shooting was erratic"

"Bowie and Hale as a pair were better than Ernie Russell and Glass. But Glass was steady and played consistently from end to end, while his partner was uncertain”

“The improvement in the work of Russell was the most noticeable feature to the play of the Wanderer forwards. Russell did not earn a place on the score sheet, but he played good hockey all the way, carrying the puck successfully and working close in with Stuart in Wanderer attacks"

“Russell played a lively game, endeavoring, no doubt, to overcome the growing suspicion that he is a dead one”

“On the wings, Blachford and Johnson were better than Hogan and McDonald, but in the centre, Jordan and C. Power had something on Russell and Glass”

“Jovial critics in the 50 cent seats kept asking Russell if he quit at Ottawa. That’s the kind of talk that gets on a player’s nerves”

"Russell made good too at centre, especially in the first part of the second half, when he scored four goals for Wanderers. He worked hard, and in the first half he would have had goals to his credit but for his sensational work by Robinson"

He was named to the 2nd team in a couple of all-star teams made by some fans during the halftime of a game. Marty Walsh was the first team center.

"Russell was in his best form, went in fearlessly on the Quebec nets, and took a lot of heavy checking"

"Russell’s chief claim to notice was his ability to get in with the Quebec defence”

"Ernie Russell played a game that was easily better than anything he had shown this season. He showed himself to be plucky in getting to the trouble centre and his work in getting after the puck in scuffles about the Quebec goal proved exceedingly useful for his side”

“The cup-holders had a changed line up on Saturday and that it worked out well is shown by the result. Ernie Russell, whom the M.A.A.A. expelled for joining Wanderers after promising to play with Montreal, was dropped, and Bruce Stuart, the Ottawa boy and brother of the late Hod Stuart, went on and played a star game. It must have been a very sore touch for Russell after playing all season to be dropped in the deciding game”

“The result [Russell not playing] probably justifies the club’s decision, although Russell has played such good hockey in recent games that many figured out he would be more useful to the team, on account of his scoring ability, than Glass. But Glass, although off color for a while in the first half, was a big source of strength to the champions in the second; his checking was very effective and he kept in the play all the time, although never starring. He watched Walsh, a tricky scorer, so carefully that the Ottawa centre never figured on the score sheet. Glass fairly hung to him whenever Wanderer nets were in danger”

“Wanderers’ officials explained that Russell was dropped for Stuart because of the latter’s ability to bore in on a defence. It was figured that Russell would have too much trouble getting by Taylor”

"Russell was crafty and dangerous around the nets, getting three out of his side’s six goals, but after the first quarter had little success in carrying the rubber. He was checked very hard every time he moved"

“Russell’s anxiety to prove his value was noticeable, and he did not let the smallest opportunity escape him, although the vigilance of Nicholson, Pitre and Laviolette made it difficult for him to use them to the best advantage”

Originally posted in an ATD thread, so there are some redactions: "Russell scored Wanderers one goal in the first half, but his weakness in carrying on the slow surface and indifferent checking made the change, which brought out UNDRAFTED [I don't have the quote in front of me, but I believe Bruce Stuart], work to Wanderers advantage. UNDRAFTED [again, I think it is Bruce Stuart] did not star, but he did a lot of useful work, as well as scoring twice"

Closing Thoughts

I'm glad I took the time to go back through the seasons with a focus on Russell, because there is more praise for his overall game than I had remembered, especially early in his career. It is probably more fair to say that Russell was inconsistent as an overall player as opposed to saying that he was an offense only guy.

Still, though- being benched in a couple high-profile games despite being the top scorer on the team (and his teams were successful with him not on the ice) doesn't sit well for me. In re-reading the games, he was clearly (IMO) not the top guy for his teams, not in the same way most of these other guys were for theirs.

I actually like Gordon Roberts quite a bit amongst this group

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910Ottawa Senators[/TD]

[TD]

12​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

34​

[/TD]

[TD]

14.61%​

[/TD]

[TD]

40.63%​

[/TD]

[TD]

68.42%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

2.38%​

[/TD]

[TD]

4.76%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]

15.60%​

[/TD]

[TD]

42.50%​

[/TD]

[TD]

54.84%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.96%​

[/TD]

[TD]

39.58%​

[/TD]

[TD]

63.33%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

31​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

44​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

26.99%​

[/TD]

[TD]

97.78%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1914-1915Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

34​

[/TD]

[TD]

74​

[/TD]

[TD]

20.36%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1915-1916Montreal Wanderers[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]

64​

[/TD]

[TD]

21.01%​

[/TD]

[TD]

64.10%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1916-1917Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

43​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

53​

[/TD]

[TD]

42​

[/TD]

[TD]

25.00%​

[/TD]

[TD]

98.15%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100.00%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1917-1918Seattle Metropolitans[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

20.35%​

[/TD]

[TD]

53.49%​

[/TD]

[TD]

76.67%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1919-1920Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

16.81%​

[/TD]

[TD]

57.58%​

[/TD]

[TD]

79.17%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

He has a pretty decent run from 1914-1917 leading his team in scoring every season and just barely losing the scoring title to Morris in 1917 by a single point after playing one less game. I think Morris was better offensively but Roberts belongs amongst this group.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Vlookup Phrase[/TD]
[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1906-1907Canadian Soo Algonquins[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]4.89%[/TD]
[TD]14.06%[/TD]
[TD]14.06%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1907-1908Ottawa Hockey Club[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]29.13%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]21.35%[/TD]
[TD]59.38%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]27.27%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[TD]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]9.68%[/TD]
[TD]30.00%[/TD]
[TD]30.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Marty Walsh looks pretty good by this type of analysis, scoring leader on a strong team during his prime.

When I picked Russell in the ATD @rmartin65 in PM opined that Walsh was a better transitional star between Bowie-Taylor than Russell. I'm really curious if you could expand more (and if I missed it just say so and I'll hunt it down). Russell has more high level seasons at the top level of hockey despite only being one year older than Walsh.

Walsh led his league in scoring twice to Russell's once but Russell was tantalizingly close in 1907.

They both won multiple cups on dynasties in the early 1900s

Russell shouldered much more of the offensive load for the Wanderers than Walsh did for the Senators as shown below in the table sorted by OC% (reminder this is is Points/Team Goals For)

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1906-1907[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]36.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]35.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1907-1908[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Hockey Club[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]29.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]27.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1905-1906[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]25.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1907-1908[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]25.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]22.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1904-1905[/TD]
[TD]Montreal AAA[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]21.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1909-1910[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]21.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1910-1911[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]20.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1911-1912[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]9.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1912-1913[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]7.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1906-1907[/TD]
[TD]Canadian Soo Algonquins[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]4.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1913-1914[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Ernie Russell[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]3.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Is it an "eye test" from the newspaper scans?

I think I had the inverse reaction to looking at their results. When we talked more about Dunderdale 2 rounds (?) ago I came away deeply unimpressed by the chasm of results between 1913 & 1920. Outside of those years he looks deeply unimpressive as a candidate. Roberts has an impressive 3 year streak between 1915-1917 that Dunderdale can't really touch. And as I mentioned earlier maybe the difference here is that Roberts seems to have been an elite complimentary player (tough, capable of checking and scoring) while Dunderdale really strikes me as someone who had to be the focal point offensively. Dunderdale pretty consistently has a higher OC% than Roberts even in his more down years.


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1919-1920[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]36%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1912-1913[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]29%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1914-1915[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1916-1917[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]25%[/TD]
[TD]98%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1913-1914[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]27%[/TD]
[TD]98%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1911-1912[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]30%[/TD]
[TD]89%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1913-1914[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]21%[/TD]
[TD]72%[/TD]
[TD]90%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1915-1916[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]64[/TD]
[TD]21%[/TD]
[TD]64%[/TD]
[TD]78%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1921-1922[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[TD]63%[/TD]
[TD]76%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1920-1921[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]17%[/TD]
[TD]63%[/TD]
[TD]63%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1914-1915[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]29%[/TD]
[TD]60%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1919-1920[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]17%[/TD]
[TD]58%[/TD]
[TD]79%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1917-1918[/TD]
[TD]Seattle Metropolitans[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[TD]53%[/TD]
[TD]77%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1915-1916[/TD]
[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]16%[/TD]
[TD]49%[/TD]
[TD]59%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1916-1917[/TD]
[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]16%[/TD]
[TD]48%[/TD]
[TD]58%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1917-1918[/TD]
[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]21%[/TD]
[TD]47%[/TD]
[TD]95%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1909-1910[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Shamrocks[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]27%[/TD]
[TD]44%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1911-1912[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]16%[/TD]
[TD]43%[/TD]
[TD]68%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1909-1910[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]15%[/TD]
[TD]41%[/TD]
[TD]68%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1912-1913[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]Left Wing[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]17%[/TD]
[TD]40%[/TD]
[TD]56%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1910-1911[/TD]
[TD]Quebec Hockey Club[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]18%[/TD]
[TD]36%[/TD]
[TD]88%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1918-1919[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]26%[/TD]
[TD]25%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WCHL[/TD]
[TD]1923-1924[/TD]
[TD]Edmonton Eskimos[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[TD]6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1922-1923[/TD]
[TD]Victoria Cougars[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]4%[/TD]
[TD]4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WCHL[/TD]
[TD]1923-1924[/TD]
[TD]Saskatoon Crescents[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD]Center[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1910-1911[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

If you put it favourably, it looks like Roberts has six of the 13 best seasons posted by either player (and neither of the top two).

Less favorably, he also has just six of the best 17 seasons posted by either of them.

My way of doing it mirrors your results fairly closely:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1920[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]103[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1913[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1917[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

43​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

53​

[/TD]

[TD]98[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1914[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

31​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

44​

[/TD]

[TD]98[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1915[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]

29​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

34​

[/TD]

[TD]85[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1914[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

28​

[/TD]

[TD]80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1912[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1916[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]68[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1918[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Seattle Metropolitans[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1922[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1915[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA/CHA[/TD]
[TD]1910[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Shamrocks[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]

[TD]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1920[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1921[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1918[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

6​

[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1912[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1916[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]

[TD]

14​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1917[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Portland Rosebuds[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

22​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

26​

[/TD]

[TD]48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA/CHA[/TD]
[TD]1910[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1913[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

16​

[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

19​

[/TD]

[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1911[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Quebec Hockey Club[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

15​

[/TD]

[TD]38[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1919[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Aristocrats[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

20​

[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WCHL[/TD]
[TD]1924[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Saskatoon Crescents[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1923[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Tommy Dunderdale[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Victoria Cougars[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]

[TD]

27​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

2​

[/TD]

[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1911[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gord Roberts[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Montreal Wanderers[/TD]
[TD]LW[/TD]

[TD]

4​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



I see that his best years were 1913 and 1920, and everything in between was relatively meh. While Roberts' best 4, and best 5 years, came in consecutive spans. Still, just like Dunderdale has a huge dropoff from 2nd best to 3rd best, Roberts' drop from 3rd to 4th best is just as much.

They are essentially equal in best 5-6 seasons. The dropoff that concerns me is Roberts' lack of anything beyond a 9th-best season. Dunderdale did the same in his 12th-best season (in just 9 games of a 16-game schedule, it should be said) and had three seasons as somewhat of a contributor beyond it as well.

So I think we're talking about different things here. I don't think it's hard at all to conclude that Dunderdale had a lot more meat on the bone when full prime and full career are looked at. I'm baffled by the idea that one would come to the inverse conclusion looking at these stats. If you're saying Roberts achieved his feats consecutively, sure, I guess, but does that matter much?

Our two PCHA defensemen, I don't think anyone is seriously considering at this point but I should at least say something about them before I accidently have to disappear again.

Frank Patrick, probably as good as Lester but focused his energy on running the PCHA instead of starring in it. He only played more than half his team's games 6 times which for the professional era is pretty bad longevity.

His best feats are probably 1912 & 1913 where he scored 85% of a Lalonde and led the Millionaires in scoring. His case for this project is going to depend heavily on the anecdotal opinions we have on him where he rates highly by observers

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CAHL[/TD]
[TD]1903-1904[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Victorias[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]6%[/TD]
[TD]63%[/TD]
[TD]17%[/TD]
[TD]17%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CAHL[/TD]
[TD]1904-1905[/TD]
[TD]Montreal Westmount[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]7%[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[TD]15%[/TD]
[TD]31%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1909-1910[/TD]
[TD]Renfrew Creamery Kings[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]8%[/TD]
[TD]92%[/TD]
[TD]25%[/TD]
[TD]35%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1911-1912[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]23%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]85%[/TD]
[TD]85%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1912-1913[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]19%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]69%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1913-1914[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]15%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]51%[/TD]
[TD]51%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1914-1915[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]24%[/TD]
[TD]9%[/TD]
[TD]9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1915-1916[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[TD]44%[/TD]
[TD]11%[/TD]
[TD]11%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1916-1917[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]12%[/TD]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]48%[/TD]
[TD]49%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1917-1918[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]6%[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1922-1923[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Maroons[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]7%[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1923-1924[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Maroons[/TD]
[TD]Frank Patrick[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1%[/TD]
[TD]13%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Art Duncan, reminder that while he "led the PCHA in 1924" they played an interlocking schedule with the WCHL and was 5th if you combined the tables (value in brackets is combined Vs1).

His scoring for a "rushing offensive D" is pretty poor outside of that one big season, Lloyd Cook strikes me as the stronger member of that pairing together. And they both have less outright star power at least out west when compared with Patrick and even Griffis depending on how charitable you are.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Teams GP[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]PIM[/TD]
[TD]OC %[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]Vs1[/TD]
[TD]VsT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1915-1916[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]10%[/TD]

[TD]

94%​

[/TD]

[TD]

31%​

[/TD]

[TD]

31%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NHA[/TD]
[TD]1916-1917[/TD]
[TD]Toronto 228th Battalion[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]6%[/TD]

[TD]

43%​

[/TD]

[TD]

10%​

[/TD]

[TD]

23%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1918-1919[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3%[/TD]

[TD]

90%​

[/TD]

[TD]

8%​

[/TD]

[TD]

8%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1919-1920[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]11%[/TD]

[TD]

82%​

[/TD]

[TD]

36%​

[/TD]

[TD]

50%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1920-1921[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6%[/TD]

[TD]

100%​

[/TD]

[TD]

25%​

[/TD]

[TD]

25%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1921-1922[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Millionaires[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]12%[/TD]

[TD]

100%​

[/TD]

[TD]

47%​

[/TD]

[TD]

47%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1922-1923[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Maroons[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]12%[/TD]

[TD]

87%​

[/TD]

[TD]

38%​

[/TD]

[TD]

53%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PCHA[/TD]
[TD]1923-1924[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Maroons[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]26%[/TD]

[TD]

100%​

[/TD]

[TD]

(78%)100%​

[/TD]

[TD]

100%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WCHL[/TD]
[TD]1924-1925[/TD]
[TD]Vancouver Maroons[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]8%[/TD]

[TD]

93%​

[/TD]

[TD]

30%​

[/TD]

[TD]

30%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WHL[/TD]
[TD]1925-1926[/TD]
[TD]Calgary Tigers[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]Art Duncan[/TD]
[TD]Defense[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]13%[/TD]

[TD]

97%​

[/TD]

[TD]

30%​

[/TD]

[TD]

52%​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[rmartin65]

Robert MacDougall​

I was hoping to be able to do a much more in-depth review of MacDougall (also referred to in the papers as McDougall), but life got in the way this week. Long story short- MacDougall was the best scorer on the best team for a good amount of time. Like a lot of other players from the era, it looks like his exit from hockey wasn’t due to declining skill, but rather MacDougall just moving on; I’ll point to the 1899 season as evidence here, as MacDougall put up 8 goals and 1 assist in just 2 season games (and, actually, those all came in one game) and another 2 goals and an assist (and a split-credit goal) against the Winnipeg Victorias in 2 Stanley Cup Challenge games (the Montreal Victorias won both, and MacDougall was arguably the reason for the victory in the second game, though not for his scoring prowess; he injured one of Winnipeg’s better players, Tony Gingras, with a brutal-sounding slash).

A selection of quotes (mostly in chronological order, but not always)-

Spoiler

“Davidson, McDougall and Capt. Grant of the Vics were conspicuous for their good work”

“Davidson and R. Macdougall played a superb forward game for the Vics., their dashes seeming irresistible”

The Montreal papers greatly lamented that McDougall was unable to play this game, saying that the Vics’ “will have a very hard row to hoe if he is not soon able to take his place on the team”, and saying that his absence negatively impacted the combination play among the forwards. The Vics’ defenders were also not up to their usual abilities.

“Vics were short of the services of Bob MacDougall, and that may help to account for their defeat”

McDougall was described as “doing great work, but of no avail”.

McDougall makes “one of his noted rushes up the ice” and scores

Shirley Davidson, Macdougall and Drinkwater were in good trim and played well

“MacDougall and Grant were seeming to do all the aggressive work for their side”

A Montreal paper described McDougall’s rushes as “famous”

McDougall goes on “one of his great rushes”

“The Vics won by their superb and utterly unselfish team play. Nearly every goal of the seven they took was made from splendid passes from the wings to the centre, where McLea or McDougall was always ready for the puck”

“McLea, Macdougall and Davidson played a rattling game”

“MacDougall and Grant were seeming to do all the aggressive work for their side”

“Macdougall’s snaky runs and some of McLea’s shots were very serviceable indeed”

“The Victoria’s played their usual combination game, but the major part of the forward game was done by Macdougall, who was in fine form”

“the forwards did not play the combination game that one expects from men like MacDougall, Davidson and McLea”

“Shirley Davidson, Bob Macdougall, McLea, and Drinkwater worked unceasingly and kept up a continual attack that told in the end”

“Bob Macdougall did all the hard work of the line, and when he went down toward the enemy’s goal it was always safe to prophesy trouble for the other people”

“Bob Macdougall was in fine fettle, and played a superb game”

“McDougall, on the forward line, and Grant and Drinkwater, and point and cover, were in perfect fettle and invincible”

“On the Victorias there did not seem to be a weak spot, and Davidson and Bob McDougall certainly played star games on the forward line”

“Drinkwater should make a great point. McLea and Bob McDougall are both well known to the Winnipeg men. McDougall, in shape, McCulloch considers the best forward playing. Cam. Davidson and Bowie are new men”

‘Bob’ McDougall of the Montreal Victorias was the most talked about hockeyist in Canada this week, consequent upon his fouling of Gingras. McDougall is the oldest player on the forward line, and one if its stars”

“MacDougall’s runs and Drinkwater’s checking were features of this part of the game”

“The Vics missed the reliability of MacDougall”

“One man was looked after in great style, and that was Bob Macdougall. Whenever Macdougall got into the vicinity of the Winnipeg goal, something happened that spoiled his chances. He was either sandwiched, or bodied, or his stick went flying into space, but whatever it was he got but slight chance to distinguish himself. But for all that he managed to be on hand at all times and got around in time to score one of the goals”

“ Bob McDougall was a disappointment, but it is hardly his fault, he has not had very much practice”

“Bob McDougall, another Montrealer born, is only 20 years of age. He is 5 feet 6 ½ inches and weighs 158 pounds… but in the meantime he is putting up just such a game of hockey as the gods delight to see. He is quick as a flash, and is very sure footed. His shooting is accurate and he perhaps scores more often in a season than any man on the Victoria team. He has played for three years with the seniors, and has always retained his place on the team”

“McDougall made the star run of the match”

“MacDougall of Montreal is playing a star game”

Scoring Tables (using my reconstructed stats; maybe points are included, as they denote that a player scored either the goal or an assist on the goal (and so I’m just putting them in the points column, so goals + assists may not add up to the total points), split-credit points are awarded .5 or .3 points, depending on just how many players are mentioned)-

Spoiler

1894

Rank	Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
1	B. Russell	Ottawa HC	9.5	4	13.5
2	H. Routh	Montreal HC	8.5	4	12.5
3	D. Swift	Quebec HC	10	2	12
4	C. Kirby	Ottawa HC	6.83	4	10.83
5	Barlow	Montreal HC	7	1	8
T-10	R. MacDougall	Victorias	5	0	5

1895

Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
H. Routh	Montreal HC	17.5	1	18.5
R. MacDougall	Victorias	11	1	12
G. Drinkwater	Victorias	9.5	2	11.5
D. Swift	Quebec HC	9	1	11
N. Rankin	Victorias	9	2	11

1896

Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
MacDougall	Victorias	12	1	14
Swift	Quebec	8.5	2.5	11
S. Davidson	Victorias	6.17	4.5	10.67
Smith	Ottawa	7.33	2	10.33
Kirby	Ottawa	3	4.5	9.5

1897

Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
Barlow	Montreal HC	10	3	15
McKerrow	Montreal HC	12.5	1	13.5
MacDougall	Victorias	10.5	2	13.5
McLea	Victorias	7.5	4.5	12
Smith	Ottawa	10.34	1	11.34

1898

Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
C. McKerrow	Montreal HC	11	4	16
D. Brown	Shamrocks	10	0	10
R. MacDougall	Victorias	8	2	10
H. Hutchison	Ottawa HC	9.5	0	9.5
G. Drinkwater	Victorias	8	1	9

1899 (only played two games)

Name	Team	Goals	Assists	Points
H. Trihey	Shamrocks	17.5	0	18.5
C. Davidson	Victorias	7	5	13
C. McKerrow	Montreal HC	11	0	11
R. Bowie	Victorias	10.5	0	10.5
R. MacDougall	Victorias	8	1	9

I don’t know about you all, but this kind of takes the shine off of MacDougall’s scoring prowess- by what I’ve been able to piece together from the primary sources, Robert MacDougall was actually only able to lead the league in total points once over the length of his career. Now- and I think this is important- the amount of goals that were scored without a listed goal scorer really hurts the Victorias’ players here. During this time period, I believe that I’m missing the following quantity of goals per team (team not listed means I think I have them all). 1897 and 1898 in particular hurt MacDougall, and I believe that it is quite likely that MacDougall would have scored a decent amount of those 39 goals… but until we come across more sources, we won’t really know for sure.

1894

Team	Goals with No Known Scorer
Montreal Victorias	3
Montreal Crystals	1

1895
N/A

1896
N/A

1897

Team	Goals with No Known Scorer
Montreal Victorias	17
Montreal Shamrocks	5
Quebec HC	4
Ottawa HC	1

1898

Team	Goals with No Known Scorer
Montreal Victorias	22
Quebec HC	13
Montreal HC	7
Montreal Shamrocks	7
Ottawa HC	2

1899

Team	Goals with No Known Scorer
Ottawa HC	2
Montreal HC	1

All numbers are compiled in good faith; I'll gladly correct any errors that are pointed out.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The reputation vs. on ice performance of MacDougall is hard to reconcile.

If you were to ask me 5 years ago to name the best 1890s player off the top of my head I would probably say Bain or MacDougall. We've already inducted Bain, but I'm left with this idea that MacDougall has a sizeable legend that outweighs his on-ice performance.

Maybe that's my own bias. He's not in the HHOF. He's not praised by Fyffe. The contemporary reports are good, not great. I don't know where I got the idea that MacDougall was a superstar, but I'm growing to think that he just wasn't.

 

[sr edler]

I did have Cully on my list, actually. Lots of players were labelled as being the 'Bad Man' of a particular team or league, but if I had to pick one player as the 'Bad Man' of the pre-consolidation era, that's my guy.

I think if I had a list of 80 names I might have included Wilson too, possibly, somewhere at the tail-end of it. I think he could be somewhat underrated still as an actual quality player, due to his shenanigans over-shadowing the fact that he was actually a pretty good scorer and energy guy. He also had pretty decent length to his career. I think I would take him in front of someone like Alf Skinner, at least. Though, you obviously wouldn't want him as your best player, or even second best player.

Dunderdale is another guy who had a 'bad man' reputation, but in his case I think it was more Keith Tkachuk style, with a lot of stupid non-offsetting penalties. I remember reading some Vancouver paper where they even mocked Dunderdale after a game where he hadn't had any PIMs, it was pretty funny.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Dunderdale is another guy who had a 'bad man' reputation, but in his case I think it was more Keith Tkachuk style, with a lot of stupid non-offsetting penalties. I remember reading some Vancouver paper where they even mocked Dunderdale after a game where he hadn't had any PIMs, it was pretty funny.

Agreed on Dunderdale. His weird 1917 season with an amazing 141 PIM is inexplicable, and really seemed to hurt his team. I read a lot on that season and one of the biggest reasons the Rosebuds went from a Cup finalist to missing the playoffs was at the rover position, which Dunderdale could've filled had he not been sidelined so often. As it was, Charley Tobin and a few others tried to fill in at rover instead, to little success.

 

[seventieslord]

In my opinion....

- Jack Campbell and Jack Walker are musts. Paddy Moran too.
- Bernie Morris and Tommy Smith merit strong consideration. So does Joe Hall.
- Gardiner and then Duncan, right?
- What to do about Frank Patrick, who might have been the best defenseman on the board when he played, but he played so infrequently?
- Bob MacDougall is in a bit of a Tommy Smith/Tommy Dunderdale/Smokey Harris zone, where his perception doesn't seem to match the stats, but he's a better version of that, isn't he? Considering he's the top "one of those" of his era, and Smith/Dunderdale are behind quite a few in theirs
- Dunderdale>Roberts=Oliver>>>>Harris
- Walsh>Russell
- Noble>Broadbent>Darragh among the elite supporting cast-type guys

this reminds me of one of those logic puzzles you'd find in a mixed-bag mind games book at a grocery store. It tells you a little about how some of the subjects relate to each other, and you're supposed to use that info to put together how they all rank or where they're all sitting at the table or whatever.

Tough vote because I think I have about a dozen I want to give at least some credit to.

 

[seventieslord]

...I submitted my vote. In a project where we have 19 names in one round, it's quite easy to be a big fan of a player who just came up this round, and simultaneously leave them off your ballot.

 

[Habsfan18]

My top 80 ballot would look drastically different now due to the great research work you guys have provided and my own research and reading since the start of this. I almost feel silly about that initial ballot but it’s certainly been a nice learning experience. This is my first time being involved in a project like this and I feel like I jumped immediately into hard mode with this one. Ranking players from this era is just as difficult as I figured it would be.

Seriously though, I haven’t had the time to participate the conversations, but I’ve read it all and you guys are fantastic.

 

[jigglysquishy]

My top 3 is Campbell, Walker, and Moran. I've been stuck on who to put at 4, as my 4-12ish are kind of bunched together.

I'm settling on Tommy Smith. He's the clear best offensive player left. He has strong star-power for 1910s NHA, and managed to play quality hockey for a long time in a variety of leagues. His 1912-13 and 1914-15 seasons are a strong peak, showing he's probably the best pure goal scorer left.

We've ragged on his defense play, but I think that can be attributed to the back half of his career. The ATD quotes are pretty stark in that 1905-~1913 he's a noted two-way forward, while afterwards the quotes talk about him being a lazy backchecker.

All in all, I think he stands out as a strong candidate after the clear top 3.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Voted.

 

[rmartin65]

Voting for this round is open; please try to get your ballots in by 9:00 PM EST tomorrow.

 

[Professor What]

Voted. If I'm honest, the bottom half felt like a crap shoot.

 

[rmartin65]

We are still waiting on a couple of ballots; once we get those, we can move on to the next round. There is some competition between a handful of players for the last couple spots, so these additional ballots do matter; if you haven't already, please submit your votes as soon as possible so we can get started on the next set. Thank you!