Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 12
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Seventies' VsX equivalents for this round's forwards
Barney Stanley isn't much for peak, but he had a surprisingly long and consistent career. At the same time, I get the sense he just picked up points by playing on Vancouver for years.
Kerr's peak shocked me.
Gagne showing up this strong was a surprise.
Crawford was a role player. A poor man's Broadbent/Stanley/Russell/Westwick, I think.
Harry Smith's numbers include just about everything he ever did, including TPHL and WPHL, even if those numbers aren't high, by including those years in my calculations, it prevents them from just showing up as zeroes.
However, I have noticed a few things:
1) I have a mistake where the 1908 WPHL is just a repeat of the 1904 league. He tore the 1908 WPHL a new one, and would have had a score of about 80.
2) I haven't yet added the 1912 NOHL. He was the leading scorer and although I won't give a ton of credence to this league, I suspect a score of about 70 would be in order.
3) I have no idea how to account for the fact that he managed to play in 3 leagues in 1909 and amass scores of 77, 42, and 28 in each of them. Should I treat them as separate, since none of them seemed to prevent him from playing in others? Or should I add them up and give him a 147 for that season? Neither seems right.
Ignoring the third piece for now, I expect his scores would be 89, 83, 77, 66 if 1908 and 1912 were added (which I do not have the time to do). These numbers would put him right at the top of the list. Iain Fyffe's numbers love him, too. He is probably the most potent offensive forward in this round. Though, he might be exhibit A for why we shouldn't get too excited about high scoring forwards of this era.
| 3y | 5y | 7y | 10y | |
| Carson Cooper | 87 | 79 | 76 | 70 |
| Dubbie Kerr | 92 | 83 | 72 | 58 |
| Jack Adams | 86 | 81 | 74 | 58 |
| Odie Cleghorn | 84 | 77 | 72 | 66 |
| Art Gagne | 87 | 76 | 67 | 60 |
| Harry Smith | 88 | 77 | 67 | 53 |
| Harry Hyland | 84 | 75 | 68 | 58 |
| Smokey Harris | 82 | 74 | 68 | 61 |
| Eddie Oatman | 76 | 71 | 66 | 61 |
| Dolly Swift | 85 | 73 | 62 | 44 |
| Barney Stanley | 73 | 68 | 64 | 59 |
| Jack Darragh | 69 | 66 | 63 | 57 |
| Harry Westwick | 70 | 60 | 53 | 46 |
| Blair Russell | 65 | 60 | 55 | 45 |
| Harry Trihey | 82 | 53 | 38 | 27 |
| Rusty Crawford | 61 | 52 | 47 | 40 |
| Graham Drinkwater | 59 | 42 | 30 | 21 |
| Scotty Davidson | 59 | 35 | 25 | 18 |
Barney Stanley isn't much for peak, but he had a surprisingly long and consistent career. At the same time, I get the sense he just picked up points by playing on Vancouver for years.
Kerr's peak shocked me.
Gagne showing up this strong was a surprise.
Crawford was a role player. A poor man's Broadbent/Stanley/Russell/Westwick, I think.
Harry Smith's numbers include just about everything he ever did, including TPHL and WPHL, even if those numbers aren't high, by including those years in my calculations, it prevents them from just showing up as zeroes.
However, I have noticed a few things:
1) I have a mistake where the 1908 WPHL is just a repeat of the 1904 league. He tore the 1908 WPHL a new one, and would have had a score of about 80.
2) I haven't yet added the 1912 NOHL. He was the leading scorer and although I won't give a ton of credence to this league, I suspect a score of about 70 would be in order.
3) I have no idea how to account for the fact that he managed to play in 3 leagues in 1909 and amass scores of 77, 42, and 28 in each of them. Should I treat them as separate, since none of them seemed to prevent him from playing in others? Or should I add them up and give him a 147 for that season? Neither seems right.
Ignoring the third piece for now, I expect his scores would be 89, 83, 77, 66 if 1908 and 1912 were added (which I do not have the time to do). These numbers would put him right at the top of the list. Iain Fyffe's numbers love him, too. He is probably the most potent offensive forward in this round. Though, he might be exhibit A for why we shouldn't get too excited about high scoring forwards of this era.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Swift was my first last round and will be my first again. Not loving that we're bleeding voters.
We've inducted 57 players. Are we only targeting 3 this week? Are we going to 70? 80?
We've inducted 57 players. Are we only targeting 3 this week? Are we going to 70? 80?
Last edited:
The new target is 70; we will re-address this issue after 2 more rounds (which hopefully has us at 65) to see if there is still enough interest to extend the list to 80. But again- for now, the project is Top-70 Pre-Merger Players.
Participants have the option to provide an updated list of 40 names (including players eligible this round, as we won't know who will still be eligible after this one) if they so choose. This is completely voluntary- if you don't have enough time to submit an update or simply don't want to, your round 1 list of 80 players will still be used.
Participants have the option to provide an updated list of 40 names (including players eligible this round, as we won't know who will still be eligible after this one) if they so choose. This is completely voluntary- if you don't have enough time to submit an update or simply don't want to, your round 1 list of 80 players will still be used.
As usual, don't read anything into the order these are (re)posted in-
Richard ‘Dickie’ Boon
The diminutive captain of the Little Men of Iron, Dickie (sometimes seen ‘Dickey’ or ‘Dicky’) Boon was arguably the best coverpoint in Canada in the post-Grant/Young pre-Stuart era; he certainly seems to have had the most star power. Montreal HC and Montreal Wanderer game reports are littered with praise for Boon, with reporters lauding his abilities both defensively and offensively. Indeed, he was reported to have had a knack for turning good defense into offense, and was once quoted as saying “I was too small to body check the big fellows so I had to develop a poke check. After I got the puck away from them, there wasn’t much else I could do but carry it up the ice”. Jack Brannen, from the Shamrocks dynasty, was cited as stating that “the little Montreal player was the hardest defenceman in the league to pass”.
Like the other defenders (and goalies), I won’t be doing stats tables for Boon. I can pull up specific comparisons if there are any questions about how he stacked up against other coverpoints and points, however.
Selection of Quotes (and Notes):
1900 (CAHL)
“Boone was a star at cover, and it was not often that a forward got by the diminutive Dick. He always played the puck, and his work was all the more effective on this account”
Boone and Smith are credited with breaking up several of Trihey’s rushes
“For Montreal, Boon at cover and Desse Brown and Liffiton on the forward division did yeoman work. The latter, especially, deserves great credit for his persistent following up and good rushing. Boon’s work was much admired”
“Smith and Boon at point and cover respectively were rather slow and allowed too much for the goalkeeper”
Smith and Boon are credited with “great defence”
“Boon’s playing at cover was a feature of the match”
“Boone, at cover-point, is a light man, who plays always for the puck, and Saturday night he seldom missed it, although frequently his interceptions were very lucky”
“Boon and Smith played a splendid defence game for the Montreal team, and Nicholson’s work in the poles was excellent. Boone had a special apparatus for his injured wrist and a regular boxing glove covered his hand, giving him quite a pugilistic appearance”
“ Montreal’s defence was lucky too. Boone’s breaking up of Trihey’s runs within shooting range saved Montreal many times”
1901 (CAHL)
“Yuile, for instance, played a star game and will be very dangerous when his support is more to the point. Boone and Nicholson also distinguished themselves”
“Boon is willing to take a chance and so is Harry Smith. But they do not do so as often as they might”
“Nicholson had a big share in Montreal’s victory and Boone played a faultless game while Lorne Campbell graduated in senior ranks with flying colours, being directly or indirectly responsible for a majority of the goals”
“Dick Boon played a splendid game”
“In the second half Montreal seemed to totally collapse, Liffiton and Boone being about the only men who played up to their form”
“However, the great play of Liffiton and Campbell in the forward line, and M. Boon at cover point, and Nicholson at goal, almost won a victory. Liffiton and Campbell did great work together, and performed some of the prettiest plays of the match”
“For the Ottawas, Roger and Sixsmith played the most effective game, and for the Montreals Liffiton and Boone did decidedly good work”
“The Montreal defence occasionally proved themselves adept at blocking tactics. Boon was specially prominent in his work. Liffiton and Campbell played a clever and hard game on the forward line and it took a good man to get the better of them”
“R. Boon, the Montreal coverpoint, knows all the tricks of a good defence man”
“Of course, Boone, Montreal’s cover point played to win. Rather unusual is it to see so small a man placed at the first defence. Montrealers are accustomed to have bigger men there, but scarcely better ones. Quebec knew all this, and more, but they were unable to get by him, or if they did, Nicholson batted the intrusive rubber out”
“One reason for this may be the absence of Boon, the clever cover point. Through some manipulation of the executive he sat on the benches during the game, when he should have been on the ice. The result was that the Vics broke through the defence almost whenever they liked. Goalkeeper NIcholson was very badly supported. Red jerseys were so thick around him he could do but little to keep the score down”
“Boon, one of the best and most daring men the club possesses, was not playing. The action of the executive of forcing him out of his place to make room for another man, was the cause of this. It is doubtful if his presence on the team could have saved the night, but it is possible that his absence, and the realization of the other players that the executive cares but little for good work done, together with a certain amount of feeling between the members of the team themselves about the change, was responsible for last night’s nightmare”
“First and foremost Boone played cover point, and the way he broke up rushes and wormed into combinations was exhilarating to his friends, one and all of whom now feel that his place on the team cannot be disputed.”
1902 (CAHL)
“Elliott and Boon managed most successfully to protect the third part of Montreal territory that lay between the goals and the centre of the rink”
“Elliott at point blocked well and lifted nice, but showed a tendency to infringe on Capt. Boon’s territory. The latter has added to his avoirdupois since last year, and his work is more finished than ever. His speed is exceptional and his lifting accurate”
“Unlike Pulford and Duval, when the Montrealers were behind, Boon and Elliott held their positions and never ventured upon the forward line, the result being there was always some one to stop the Ottawa rushes. Then both these players lifted splendidly, the returns being made very fast. On one occasion, the puck landed on Hutton’s chest with two Montrealers a few feet from him”
“Boone, the cover point man, who did a clever lot of work, was really the only one who ventured out of his place, and he did not go far. Elliott, the point player, was both a hard man to pass and did lots of relief work in nice lifts of the puck. Nicholson, the goalminder, had his eyes open always and stopped many hot shots”
“For the victors, Dickie Boone at cover point was worth two or three. His efforts were ably seconded by young Liffiton, who is certainly a small-sized wonder”
“Boon at cover point put up a splendid game. He seemed to be right on top of the Vics and to him is the credit of breaking up many good combinations by Bowie and Russell. As usual, Gardner and Liffiton, on the forwards, were always in the game. They skated and shot well, but combination play was lacking”
“Moran in the poles was a tower of strength, stopping shots that seemed almost impossible. Scott and Capt. Stuart played a most useful game, and, in fact, several times the defence took the puck down the ice to help their forwards. But Dickey Boon was there all the time and invariably broke up their pretty runs”
“Dickey Boon was easily the star of the match- he played with good judgment and it was very seldom a forward got past him. He brought the puck from his own end down to his opponents’ goal time after time, and if it had not been for his fast work there would probably have been a different story to tell today”
“For the Montrealers, Nicholson did wonders, while Elliott played his best game this season, though, like Hod Stuart, he was much too rough. Boon was the star of the entire fourteen men, and it would be hard to say whether Marshall, Liffiton, or Hooper was the more brilliant. Gardner was very poor”
The Shamrocks now start pressuring, but Boon was “generally being the stumbling block to the forwards wearing green”.
“Boon and Liffiton were the only men on the team who seemed to be playing the game, the one doing all the defence work and the other all the offensive. Liffiton was all over the ice, and was the bright particular star of the fourteen men”
“Boon, at cover point, broke up one piece of combination play after another. Then, on the forward line, Liffiton and Gardner made a number of brilliant rushes”
“Hodge at this time did not do much. Boon stole several threatening pucks and Nicholson stopped a number”
“Boon, who, by the way can stand a wonderful amount of punishment for a little fellow”
“To Winnipeggers who know already what to expect from their own men perhaps the most noticeable individual playing was that of Boon, the featherweight cover-point for the Montreals. “
“Individually Boon, cover point and captain of the team, was the best man on his side. His physique made a strong body-checking game an impossibility, but he is on to every known trick of the game, and his checking is entirely for the puck. This evening he proved very effective, and his long lifting on more than one occasion put the Vics’ goal in extreme danger”
“The two Fletts, Brown, and Gingras were the stars. Scanlan was out-matched by Liffiton. The latter and Marshall were the stars of the Montrealers. Their splendid work kept Boon somewhat in the background in the last half, but when his services were required he was never found wanting”
“Boone, at cover point, was the whole team and a spare man. What he does not know about the fine points of the game would not occupy much time in telling, and he brought into play every device he knew. The result was that very few of the young gentlemen in red and blue got any further than coverpoint. Those that did found a surprise party waiting or them. Hodge, the point on Thursday evening, had been thrown out, his place being taken by Bellingham, who showed splendid form. He seemed to give the team confidence, and his inclusion was a wise move. Nicholson, goal, touched the puck on three occasions”
“On keen ice the Montreal boys proved to be whirlwinds; even the redoubtable Tony Gingras looked slow beside them, and if by a chance his speed carried him down towards the Montreal goal, Dickey Boon was always in the way, and the puck did not remain there long. Liffiton, Boon and Hooper were the stars of the Montreals”
“But Dickey [Boon] was always doing something unexpected, and before the game closed was perhaps the most popular player on the ice”
“Boon is the bright particular star of the aggregation, but all the other players were stars also”
“Boon, the plucky captain of the team, played the game as he never played it before. He was all over the ice, checking, blocking, and clearing with speed and accuracy. Bellingham at point was steady as a rock and overlooked nothing”
“Dickey Boon was simply invincible. He seldom made an error, and was always in the right spot at the right time”
1903 (CAHL)
“Boone had a lot of work to do, but his great length of reach and speed helped him out as usual, and he seldom failed to deliver the goods in the shape of the puck. Hodge had but little to do, and Nicholson was forgotten altogether”
“Boon, at cover, had lost none of his tricks, although he lost his temper at times”
“Boon was his same of self as cover, with the speed of the fastest forward and splendid checking ability”
“Boon was not up to the old time mark, and his showing was disappointing. At times the Ottawa forwards played rag with [?] his lifting was good though. Hodge, at point, was fairly strong, but he, like Boon, allowed himself to be drawn out by the wily Ottawas”
“Great things were looked for in Boone, but this star player had too much weight against him and lacked his usual speed.”
“DIckie Boon, who has a splendid reputation for gentlemanly play, went in the air on Saturday night and slashed in all directions. His particular hobby seemed to be to put the gallant little Westwick out of business, but he got as much as he gave and in consequence it is not likely he will figure on the next match the team plays”
“’Dickey’ Boon was the particular bright star of the evening. He played out of his position, and yet while managing to make a good forward, seemed to drop back whenever he found leisure into his usual place”
“Boon played a wonderful game, stopping rush after rush, and lifting right on to the Quebec goals repeatedly”
“At point, Bellingham was almost perfect last night, and DIcky Boon, although not feeling very well, and threatened with grippe, played steadily as usual, and was all over the ice when needed”
“Hooper missed a number of comparatively easy shots, and Boon, the great, did not seem to know at times where he was at”
“The famous Dickey Boon on Saturday night was at sixes and sevens. Frank McGee scores a goal while Boon had his back to the puck. Bellingham at cover point is a wonderful improvement on Hodge but the only thing he seemed to be able to do effectively on Saturday night was to punish Frank McGee”
“Hooper was a perfect whirlwind and got by the opposing defence for four goals. Nicholson in goal was a source of confidence to the defence, and Bellingham also put up a splendid game. Boon of course was peerless, while Phillips, who formerly played with Rat Portage, made a remarkable showing for a new man”
“Nicholson, he of the generous outlines, was there whenever he was needed except once. Bellingham at point played a cool, collected game, and Boon, although he did not score, was, as alert, as swift, and as tricky as ever”
“Boon, however, at this stage of the game was putting up an excellent article of hockey under the prevailing conditions and kept rushing the puck back as fast as the Winnipeg people could bring it down”
“Scanlan was without doubt the cleanest player on the ice during the two matches, and in addition, was undoubtedly the most finished forward player of all those on the ice. Scanlan went into everything, took his medicine without making any bones about it, and not once, in spite of what must have been pretty severe provocation, did he make any effort at retaliation. It was a creditable record of a good man. Boon, too, also ought to be spoken of in this matter. He played a steady telling game in both matches, and played his game without any resort to unfair methods. The nice play and the effectiveness of this man demonstrates that tip-top hockey can be played without batting opponents to little, just because some one on the side thinks it would be a good sort of game to play”
“Boon, tricky, quick and yet collected, played a careful, steady game, and often left his position, particularly when Gardner was put out of business, to give aid wherever it was needed”
1904 (FAHL)
“Nicholson in the first half practiced fancy stops and Boon did some particularly intricate jumping, and executed some ornate twists”
“In the first half it very seldom got past Boon, and when it did it was never dangerous”
“Boon has a whole lot of tricks that fooled them time and again, and Gardner worked the fence to perfection”
“Gardner and Leahy were the only men on the forward line and on the defence Boon was the star”
1905 (FAHL)
“Whenever they did get off the man with the puck usually chose to pass the disc in the neighborhood of Dick Boon, and that was always fatal, for there is no need to tell here that no cover-point playing the game today can slip in more neatly and nap the puck on such occasions than the same Dick. Boon was a source of trouble to Cornwall’s forwards, and none of them appeared to fathom his methods, so he had a night of it. Boon was directly responsible for some of the scores, and his work generally had much to do with the result”
“Dickie Boon made half a dozen thrilling scampers toward the other chaps’ goal”
“Boon played a star game, and so did Marshall, and between the two they were responsible for most of the games scored”
“For instance ‘DIckie’ Boon started off in rousing form, but fell away badly, and at the end was like a wet rag”
“For the Wanderers DIcky Boon was easily the star. In fact he was the best player on the ice. Jack Marshall, Billy Strachan and a junior, named Glass, along with the goalkeeper also distinguished themselves”
“Combination on the Brockville line was conspicuous by its absence and the selfish individual effort counted for little against such experts at defence as the famous ‘Dicky’ Boon and ‘Billy’ Strachan. A man that succeeded in getting past Boon usually met his Waterloo on bumping against Strachan and what he could not get, Goalkeeper Baker took care of”
“ The star man of the evening was the famous Dickey Boon, at cover point, for the Montreal lads. He was a thorn in the sides of the opposing forwards, and when closely pressed relieved in a manner that elicited applause. He also started numerous combined rushes with his forwards when he got the other fellows uncovered”
“Dicky Boon in certainly one of the best hockey players in Canada, but on Saturday evening, in the dying minutes of one of the most strenuous matches ever played in this city, he made a serious mistake in playing too far out”
In the 1905 fan-voted all star team, Boon finished second to Moore among coverpoints by about 200 votes. He narrowly missed out on being named the defensive spare, as W. Strachan (a point) edged him out for the honor by less than 20 votes.
“Boone was a star at cover, and it was not often that a forward got by the diminutive Dick. He always played the puck, and his work was all the more effective on this account”
Boone and Smith are credited with breaking up several of Trihey’s rushes
“For Montreal, Boon at cover and Desse Brown and Liffiton on the forward division did yeoman work. The latter, especially, deserves great credit for his persistent following up and good rushing. Boon’s work was much admired”
“Smith and Boon at point and cover respectively were rather slow and allowed too much for the goalkeeper”
Smith and Boon are credited with “great defence”
“Boon’s playing at cover was a feature of the match”
“Boone, at cover-point, is a light man, who plays always for the puck, and Saturday night he seldom missed it, although frequently his interceptions were very lucky”
“Boon and Smith played a splendid defence game for the Montreal team, and Nicholson’s work in the poles was excellent. Boone had a special apparatus for his injured wrist and a regular boxing glove covered his hand, giving him quite a pugilistic appearance”
“ Montreal’s defence was lucky too. Boone’s breaking up of Trihey’s runs within shooting range saved Montreal many times”
1901 (CAHL)
“Yuile, for instance, played a star game and will be very dangerous when his support is more to the point. Boone and Nicholson also distinguished themselves”
“Boon is willing to take a chance and so is Harry Smith. But they do not do so as often as they might”
“Nicholson had a big share in Montreal’s victory and Boone played a faultless game while Lorne Campbell graduated in senior ranks with flying colours, being directly or indirectly responsible for a majority of the goals”
“Dick Boon played a splendid game”
“In the second half Montreal seemed to totally collapse, Liffiton and Boone being about the only men who played up to their form”
“However, the great play of Liffiton and Campbell in the forward line, and M. Boon at cover point, and Nicholson at goal, almost won a victory. Liffiton and Campbell did great work together, and performed some of the prettiest plays of the match”
“For the Ottawas, Roger and Sixsmith played the most effective game, and for the Montreals Liffiton and Boone did decidedly good work”
“The Montreal defence occasionally proved themselves adept at blocking tactics. Boon was specially prominent in his work. Liffiton and Campbell played a clever and hard game on the forward line and it took a good man to get the better of them”
“R. Boon, the Montreal coverpoint, knows all the tricks of a good defence man”
“Of course, Boone, Montreal’s cover point played to win. Rather unusual is it to see so small a man placed at the first defence. Montrealers are accustomed to have bigger men there, but scarcely better ones. Quebec knew all this, and more, but they were unable to get by him, or if they did, Nicholson batted the intrusive rubber out”
“One reason for this may be the absence of Boon, the clever cover point. Through some manipulation of the executive he sat on the benches during the game, when he should have been on the ice. The result was that the Vics broke through the defence almost whenever they liked. Goalkeeper NIcholson was very badly supported. Red jerseys were so thick around him he could do but little to keep the score down”
“Boon, one of the best and most daring men the club possesses, was not playing. The action of the executive of forcing him out of his place to make room for another man, was the cause of this. It is doubtful if his presence on the team could have saved the night, but it is possible that his absence, and the realization of the other players that the executive cares but little for good work done, together with a certain amount of feeling between the members of the team themselves about the change, was responsible for last night’s nightmare”
“First and foremost Boone played cover point, and the way he broke up rushes and wormed into combinations was exhilarating to his friends, one and all of whom now feel that his place on the team cannot be disputed.”
1902 (CAHL)
“Elliott and Boon managed most successfully to protect the third part of Montreal territory that lay between the goals and the centre of the rink”
“Elliott at point blocked well and lifted nice, but showed a tendency to infringe on Capt. Boon’s territory. The latter has added to his avoirdupois since last year, and his work is more finished than ever. His speed is exceptional and his lifting accurate”
“Unlike Pulford and Duval, when the Montrealers were behind, Boon and Elliott held their positions and never ventured upon the forward line, the result being there was always some one to stop the Ottawa rushes. Then both these players lifted splendidly, the returns being made very fast. On one occasion, the puck landed on Hutton’s chest with two Montrealers a few feet from him”
“Boone, the cover point man, who did a clever lot of work, was really the only one who ventured out of his place, and he did not go far. Elliott, the point player, was both a hard man to pass and did lots of relief work in nice lifts of the puck. Nicholson, the goalminder, had his eyes open always and stopped many hot shots”
“For the victors, Dickie Boone at cover point was worth two or three. His efforts were ably seconded by young Liffiton, who is certainly a small-sized wonder”
“Boon at cover point put up a splendid game. He seemed to be right on top of the Vics and to him is the credit of breaking up many good combinations by Bowie and Russell. As usual, Gardner and Liffiton, on the forwards, were always in the game. They skated and shot well, but combination play was lacking”
“Moran in the poles was a tower of strength, stopping shots that seemed almost impossible. Scott and Capt. Stuart played a most useful game, and, in fact, several times the defence took the puck down the ice to help their forwards. But Dickey Boon was there all the time and invariably broke up their pretty runs”
“Dickey Boon was easily the star of the match- he played with good judgment and it was very seldom a forward got past him. He brought the puck from his own end down to his opponents’ goal time after time, and if it had not been for his fast work there would probably have been a different story to tell today”
“For the Montrealers, Nicholson did wonders, while Elliott played his best game this season, though, like Hod Stuart, he was much too rough. Boon was the star of the entire fourteen men, and it would be hard to say whether Marshall, Liffiton, or Hooper was the more brilliant. Gardner was very poor”
The Shamrocks now start pressuring, but Boon was “generally being the stumbling block to the forwards wearing green”.
“Boon and Liffiton were the only men on the team who seemed to be playing the game, the one doing all the defence work and the other all the offensive. Liffiton was all over the ice, and was the bright particular star of the fourteen men”
“Boon, at cover point, broke up one piece of combination play after another. Then, on the forward line, Liffiton and Gardner made a number of brilliant rushes”
“Hodge at this time did not do much. Boon stole several threatening pucks and Nicholson stopped a number”
“Boon, who, by the way can stand a wonderful amount of punishment for a little fellow”
“To Winnipeggers who know already what to expect from their own men perhaps the most noticeable individual playing was that of Boon, the featherweight cover-point for the Montreals. “
“Individually Boon, cover point and captain of the team, was the best man on his side. His physique made a strong body-checking game an impossibility, but he is on to every known trick of the game, and his checking is entirely for the puck. This evening he proved very effective, and his long lifting on more than one occasion put the Vics’ goal in extreme danger”
“The two Fletts, Brown, and Gingras were the stars. Scanlan was out-matched by Liffiton. The latter and Marshall were the stars of the Montrealers. Their splendid work kept Boon somewhat in the background in the last half, but when his services were required he was never found wanting”
“Boone, at cover point, was the whole team and a spare man. What he does not know about the fine points of the game would not occupy much time in telling, and he brought into play every device he knew. The result was that very few of the young gentlemen in red and blue got any further than coverpoint. Those that did found a surprise party waiting or them. Hodge, the point on Thursday evening, had been thrown out, his place being taken by Bellingham, who showed splendid form. He seemed to give the team confidence, and his inclusion was a wise move. Nicholson, goal, touched the puck on three occasions”
“On keen ice the Montreal boys proved to be whirlwinds; even the redoubtable Tony Gingras looked slow beside them, and if by a chance his speed carried him down towards the Montreal goal, Dickey Boon was always in the way, and the puck did not remain there long. Liffiton, Boon and Hooper were the stars of the Montreals”
“But Dickey [Boon] was always doing something unexpected, and before the game closed was perhaps the most popular player on the ice”
“Boon is the bright particular star of the aggregation, but all the other players were stars also”
“Boon, the plucky captain of the team, played the game as he never played it before. He was all over the ice, checking, blocking, and clearing with speed and accuracy. Bellingham at point was steady as a rock and overlooked nothing”
“Dickey Boon was simply invincible. He seldom made an error, and was always in the right spot at the right time”
1903 (CAHL)
“Boone had a lot of work to do, but his great length of reach and speed helped him out as usual, and he seldom failed to deliver the goods in the shape of the puck. Hodge had but little to do, and Nicholson was forgotten altogether”
“Boon, at cover, had lost none of his tricks, although he lost his temper at times”
“Boon was his same of self as cover, with the speed of the fastest forward and splendid checking ability”
“Boon was not up to the old time mark, and his showing was disappointing. At times the Ottawa forwards played rag with [?] his lifting was good though. Hodge, at point, was fairly strong, but he, like Boon, allowed himself to be drawn out by the wily Ottawas”
“Great things were looked for in Boone, but this star player had too much weight against him and lacked his usual speed.”
“DIckie Boon, who has a splendid reputation for gentlemanly play, went in the air on Saturday night and slashed in all directions. His particular hobby seemed to be to put the gallant little Westwick out of business, but he got as much as he gave and in consequence it is not likely he will figure on the next match the team plays”
“’Dickey’ Boon was the particular bright star of the evening. He played out of his position, and yet while managing to make a good forward, seemed to drop back whenever he found leisure into his usual place”
“Boon played a wonderful game, stopping rush after rush, and lifting right on to the Quebec goals repeatedly”
“At point, Bellingham was almost perfect last night, and DIcky Boon, although not feeling very well, and threatened with grippe, played steadily as usual, and was all over the ice when needed”
“Hooper missed a number of comparatively easy shots, and Boon, the great, did not seem to know at times where he was at”
“The famous Dickey Boon on Saturday night was at sixes and sevens. Frank McGee scores a goal while Boon had his back to the puck. Bellingham at cover point is a wonderful improvement on Hodge but the only thing he seemed to be able to do effectively on Saturday night was to punish Frank McGee”
“Hooper was a perfect whirlwind and got by the opposing defence for four goals. Nicholson in goal was a source of confidence to the defence, and Bellingham also put up a splendid game. Boon of course was peerless, while Phillips, who formerly played with Rat Portage, made a remarkable showing for a new man”
“Nicholson, he of the generous outlines, was there whenever he was needed except once. Bellingham at point played a cool, collected game, and Boon, although he did not score, was, as alert, as swift, and as tricky as ever”
“Boon, however, at this stage of the game was putting up an excellent article of hockey under the prevailing conditions and kept rushing the puck back as fast as the Winnipeg people could bring it down”
“Scanlan was without doubt the cleanest player on the ice during the two matches, and in addition, was undoubtedly the most finished forward player of all those on the ice. Scanlan went into everything, took his medicine without making any bones about it, and not once, in spite of what must have been pretty severe provocation, did he make any effort at retaliation. It was a creditable record of a good man. Boon, too, also ought to be spoken of in this matter. He played a steady telling game in both matches, and played his game without any resort to unfair methods. The nice play and the effectiveness of this man demonstrates that tip-top hockey can be played without batting opponents to little, just because some one on the side thinks it would be a good sort of game to play”
“Boon, tricky, quick and yet collected, played a careful, steady game, and often left his position, particularly when Gardner was put out of business, to give aid wherever it was needed”
1904 (FAHL)
“Nicholson in the first half practiced fancy stops and Boon did some particularly intricate jumping, and executed some ornate twists”
“In the first half it very seldom got past Boon, and when it did it was never dangerous”
“Boon has a whole lot of tricks that fooled them time and again, and Gardner worked the fence to perfection”
“Gardner and Leahy were the only men on the forward line and on the defence Boon was the star”
1905 (FAHL)
“Whenever they did get off the man with the puck usually chose to pass the disc in the neighborhood of Dick Boon, and that was always fatal, for there is no need to tell here that no cover-point playing the game today can slip in more neatly and nap the puck on such occasions than the same Dick. Boon was a source of trouble to Cornwall’s forwards, and none of them appeared to fathom his methods, so he had a night of it. Boon was directly responsible for some of the scores, and his work generally had much to do with the result”
“Dickie Boon made half a dozen thrilling scampers toward the other chaps’ goal”
“Boon played a star game, and so did Marshall, and between the two they were responsible for most of the games scored”
“For instance ‘DIckie’ Boon started off in rousing form, but fell away badly, and at the end was like a wet rag”
“For the Wanderers DIcky Boon was easily the star. In fact he was the best player on the ice. Jack Marshall, Billy Strachan and a junior, named Glass, along with the goalkeeper also distinguished themselves”
“Combination on the Brockville line was conspicuous by its absence and the selfish individual effort counted for little against such experts at defence as the famous ‘Dicky’ Boon and ‘Billy’ Strachan. A man that succeeded in getting past Boon usually met his Waterloo on bumping against Strachan and what he could not get, Goalkeeper Baker took care of”
“ The star man of the evening was the famous Dickey Boon, at cover point, for the Montreal lads. He was a thorn in the sides of the opposing forwards, and when closely pressed relieved in a manner that elicited applause. He also started numerous combined rushes with his forwards when he got the other fellows uncovered”
“Dicky Boon in certainly one of the best hockey players in Canada, but on Saturday evening, in the dying minutes of one of the most strenuous matches ever played in this city, he made a serious mistake in playing too far out”
In the 1905 fan-voted all star team, Boon finished second to Moore among coverpoints by about 200 votes. He narrowly missed out on being named the defensive spare, as W. Strachan (a point) edged him out for the honor by less than 20 votes.
I'll try to address this in my Harry Smith post (I think I am up-to-date on the AHAC/CAHL/FAHL/ECAHA guys except for Smith and and Kerr, those should be done by Saturday morning), but in case I forget-
Harry Smith was pacing for a 4th or 5th place finish in the ECHA in 1909. Obviously pace is just that - an estimation of what would have happened - but it was shaping up to be a very strong season. I have him with 8 confirmed goals and 2 confirmed assists for 10 confirmed points in the 4 games he played with the Wanderers before jumping ship, with another 2 split credit goals. This tracks fairly well with the 9 goals that an unnamed hockey statistician published in The Montreal Star upon the conclusion of the season, and the 9 goals that The Ottawa Citizen published about 2/3 through the season. 1909 saw each team playing 12 games, so it makes a pretty easy projection- 24 goals, 6 assists, 30 points, plus another 6 split credit credit goals (so roughly another projected 3 goals/points). Those 30 points would have him in 4th after Walsh (43 points), Jordan (33 points), and Stuart (31 points), well ahead of the next scorer on the list (Kerr, with 24 points, though I believe he missed 3 games- projecting his scores out, Kerr would be at 32. The next highest scorer after Kerr was Chubby Power with 21, so I feel pretty comfortable in saying Smith would have finished 4th or 5th that year). He also produced well in the SC challenges that year, for what it is worth.
What does this do for your numbers? I don't know. Is there a way to perform a similar review of his performance in the WPHL and TPHL and kind of blend those all together to get a rough idea?
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Yes, I'd say that's probably exactly what one would need to do.
Suffice to say, without that "help", he has the strongest offensive resume of anyone in this round.
Black Gold Extractor
Registered User
- May 4, 2010
- 3,092
- 4,967
I think Ultimate Hockey had Crawford winning a couple of retro Selkes (from this old thread), so his defensive game must have been quite good, but his offense is abysmal compared to the rest of the field.
One mathematical trick is to use the median in lieu of the average if there's some uncertainty of exact numbers. At the very least, it could provide a "sanity check" if needed.
Average of top 3 ~ 2nd best score
Average of top 5 ~ 3rd best score
Average of top 7 ~ 4th best score
Average of top 10 ~ Average of 5th and 6th best score
As for how excited we should be about high-scoring forwards of the era, here are some notable VsX scores for forwards in this season's NHL (benchmark 113 points):
10th: 90.2
15th: 82.3
20th: 76.1
32nd: 69.9
48th: 64.6
64th: 58.4
96th: 49.6
Dubbie Kerr peaking at NHL superstar level is exciting. Carson Cooper peaking at not-quite NHL superstar level but also having a 10-year score in the top third of NHL 1st liners is damned impressive (at least to me).
Dr John Carlson
Registered User
- Dubbie Kerr should interest people who are big on peaks. My sense (and it could be wrong, I didn't dig deep into him) is that he wasn't quite the same after his first 'retirement' in 1912 but was still a very good scorer. I've found quite a few clippings, mostly from Ottawa papers, that considered him the best winger in the game at the time of his taking 12-13 off. And, if I'm remembering correctly, Gee Ahern, sporting editor of the Halifax Herald, voted for Kerr as LW on his submission for that 1925 MacLean's all-time team. It's not clear when Ahern would've watched Kerr play as he would've been fairly young at the time of Dubbie's peak.
- Gagne, Crawford, and Stanley all featured prominently in my Dick Irvin research. I'd pick Crawford as the weakest of the bunch, though he was also nearer to the end of the relevant portion of his career than the other two were. seventies' description of him as a role player sounds about right. He was an excellent skater, to the point that he was being picked as one of the fastest in the WCHL up until his mid to late 30s, and had some positional versatility, but was not a very good scorer and it reads as though his defensive play was fine but not Ultimate Hockey Retro Selke-fine.
- Gagne was a very good offensive player, and wasn't just some product of Duke Keats, but from what I've gathered, he was let go of twice during his prime because he wasn't physical enough and/or he was too porous defensively. In the fall of 1923 he was traded from Edmonton to Regina after his first huge season in exchange for a fading Spunk Sparrow and cash. A Saskatoon paper said Gagne was believed to have "needed a change in atmosphere" while a Calgary paper noted Sparrow was brought in for being a greater defensive player. Later, in the NHL, Montreal let him go in the summer of 1929 so that they could replace him with Nick Wasnie, a bigger man who was noted in a Kingston paper as being a "worthy substitute" for Gagne as he figured to make the Habs' forward line heavier than it had been with Art.
- Stanley was a great captain, a real glue guy. The best of the bunch defensively IMO, but not the offensive talent Gagne was. I offered a few quotes in my Dick Irvin profile opining that the loss of Stanley from Regina/Portland in 1925 was a huge blow, as Irvin was considered to be a much lesser leader and playing manager than Barney was. He, like Crawford, could play multiple positions, and did so with more regularity than Rusty. For me, this bunch is something like Gagne/Stanley >> Crawford. I don't think Rusty is a great candidate for the list now that I've done more reading.
- Gagne, Crawford, and Stanley all featured prominently in my Dick Irvin research. I'd pick Crawford as the weakest of the bunch, though he was also nearer to the end of the relevant portion of his career than the other two were. seventies' description of him as a role player sounds about right. He was an excellent skater, to the point that he was being picked as one of the fastest in the WCHL up until his mid to late 30s, and had some positional versatility, but was not a very good scorer and it reads as though his defensive play was fine but not Ultimate Hockey Retro Selke-fine.
- Gagne was a very good offensive player, and wasn't just some product of Duke Keats, but from what I've gathered, he was let go of twice during his prime because he wasn't physical enough and/or he was too porous defensively. In the fall of 1923 he was traded from Edmonton to Regina after his first huge season in exchange for a fading Spunk Sparrow and cash. A Saskatoon paper said Gagne was believed to have "needed a change in atmosphere" while a Calgary paper noted Sparrow was brought in for being a greater defensive player. Later, in the NHL, Montreal let him go in the summer of 1929 so that they could replace him with Nick Wasnie, a bigger man who was noted in a Kingston paper as being a "worthy substitute" for Gagne as he figured to make the Habs' forward line heavier than it had been with Art.
- Stanley was a great captain, a real glue guy. The best of the bunch defensively IMO, but not the offensive talent Gagne was. I offered a few quotes in my Dick Irvin profile opining that the loss of Stanley from Regina/Portland in 1925 was a huge blow, as Irvin was considered to be a much lesser leader and playing manager than Barney was. He, like Crawford, could play multiple positions, and did so with more regularity than Rusty. For me, this bunch is something like Gagne/Stanley >> Crawford. I don't think Rusty is a great candidate for the list now that I've done more reading.
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Wow, this guy was a stud. What's the downside here?
My hot take as I posted the names was that I wasn't excited about any new guys aside from Boon. And this only strengthens that notion.
However, Kerr does look a lot stronger than anticipated, Stanley has some appeal and then there's the hard-to-ignore offense of Harry Smith.
Honestly, I'm not sure. He wasn't physical, but it doesn't seem to have hampered his teams. Despite the lack of physicality, he profiles exceptionally well defensively, and he reads like one of the better offensive coverpoints of the time period as well. His career was on the short side (6 seasons), but not terribly so. With Boon as captain, the Wanderers recaptured the Stanley Cup for the CAHL by defeating the Winnipeg Victorias in 1902, then successfully defended it against the same team a year later in 1903, so team success isn't a issue.
Not being named to the 1905 team kind of bothers me- Art Moore was a good coverpoint, don't get me wrong, but he's not making it anywhere close to this list. It could be a simple matter of popularity, as it was a fan-voted ballot, but the rest of that team looks good- the only other question mark is Gilmour at RW, but that is probably only due to my ignorance of the league Gilmour was playing in at the time (outside of 2 SC games with Ottawa, he spent 1905 with McGill). That said, Moore (and Gilmour) were named to the other 1905 team (from an unnamed Montreal man) we have, so that offers a little more information. The Montreal man's team came with a brief write up, and Moore's was pretty much all about his physicality, so maybe his style was more engaging/fan-friendly than Boon's?
Albert ‘Dubbie’ Kerr
I only have one season for Kerr, 1909 when he played in the ECHA for Ottawa HC, so this won’t be very long. As the numbers @seventieslord provided show, Kerr has arguably the greatest offensive peak among players eligible this round. And, as the quotes below show, Kerr appears to have been a conscientious defensive player- at least for 1909. @Dr John Carlson also noted that Kerr received consideration as being the best winger in hockey during part of his career, which is the kind of praise that weighs pretty heavily for me.Selection of Quotes:
1909 (ECHA)
“In the first half, Lesueur and Kerr were the only players whose work counted. Taylor was suffering from an injury to his back received the previous night and could not bend over to handle his stick, having to do most of his work with one hand. Lake was not as speedy as usual and failed to clear quickly, while Walsh and Gilmour were off color. Dey and Kerr worked like beavers, but Dey was watched closely and Kerr as a rule was all by himself out skating the other forwards. Walsh, who is usually the greatest scorer, missed chance after chance. Gilmour never got going”
“Albert Kerr was by all means the most effective of the Ottawa men”
“The Ottawas can thank Kerr that they were not beaten for he was there with the Stanley CUp brand of hockey from beginning to end. Kerr scored no less than four goals, being responsible for two others on passes. His speed was second only to that of Taylor, his stick-handling superb and his shooting great”
“Kerr looked small, boyish and light in comparison with the others, but he had it on them all as far as hockey went. He plays much like Steve Vair of Renfrew and was not penalized once”
“He [Kerr] has all kinds of speed, is a pretty stick-handler and goes back nicely to help out the defence. He has a wicked shot and assisted very materially in the scoring”
“Walsh and Stuart excelled both Vair and Glass in mid-ice, but on the wings the Wanderers were the equals of their covers, despite the fact that both Kerr and Gilmour played first rate hockey. They were covering two dangerous men in Gardner and Johnstone and Kerr was instructed to stick to Johnstone regardless of the puck. The Brockville boy had few chances to shone on account of the attention Johnstone merited, but he held the Wanderer man down well and managed to distinguish himself in the bargain. Kerr again demonstrated that he is worthy of the left wing position”
“Kerr showed up well, but was inclined to use his stick pretty freely for tripping and hooking”
“...the manner in which Stuart, Walsh, Kerr and Gilmour checked back was disastrous to the most heroic efforts of the Wanderers”
“Kerr at left wing had the better of Johnston, showing more speed than the Wanderer man at the finish and being more unselfish”
“Kerr put up the best game he has played since joining the Ottawas. He showed all kinds of speed, took passes nicely, and shot like a fiend”
“Kerr was not as spectacular as in the other games he has played here, showing the effects of his week’s rest, but at that he had the hardest worker on the Quebec team to handle in Chubby Power. Kerr played his wing to perfection in the latter part of the game and Power found it much harder to scoot up the right side than in the first half”
“Darragh held Kerr down well”
“Walsh, Stuart and Gilmour were always effective after they got settled down while ‘Dubbie’ Kerr was the most conspicuous man on the ice, working like a beaver. Kerr’s dashes down the sides were splendid. Taylor was the best man on the Ottawa team, on the night’s play, he doing a marvelous amount of work”
“Kerr improved as the game wore on until at the finish he was the outstanding feature of the Ottawa line. As the youngster of the team, he was dropped whenever Ottawa had to drop a player, but his play was of a class to warrant him being the last chosen for a side line position”
Kerr was listed as having scored 20 goals on the year in the postseason list published by an unnamed hockey statistician after the season. This tracks nicely with the 19.83 goals my split goal system credits Kerr with.
“In the first half, Lesueur and Kerr were the only players whose work counted. Taylor was suffering from an injury to his back received the previous night and could not bend over to handle his stick, having to do most of his work with one hand. Lake was not as speedy as usual and failed to clear quickly, while Walsh and Gilmour were off color. Dey and Kerr worked like beavers, but Dey was watched closely and Kerr as a rule was all by himself out skating the other forwards. Walsh, who is usually the greatest scorer, missed chance after chance. Gilmour never got going”
“Albert Kerr was by all means the most effective of the Ottawa men”
“The Ottawas can thank Kerr that they were not beaten for he was there with the Stanley CUp brand of hockey from beginning to end. Kerr scored no less than four goals, being responsible for two others on passes. His speed was second only to that of Taylor, his stick-handling superb and his shooting great”
“Kerr looked small, boyish and light in comparison with the others, but he had it on them all as far as hockey went. He plays much like Steve Vair of Renfrew and was not penalized once”
“He [Kerr] has all kinds of speed, is a pretty stick-handler and goes back nicely to help out the defence. He has a wicked shot and assisted very materially in the scoring”
“Walsh and Stuart excelled both Vair and Glass in mid-ice, but on the wings the Wanderers were the equals of their covers, despite the fact that both Kerr and Gilmour played first rate hockey. They were covering two dangerous men in Gardner and Johnstone and Kerr was instructed to stick to Johnstone regardless of the puck. The Brockville boy had few chances to shone on account of the attention Johnstone merited, but he held the Wanderer man down well and managed to distinguish himself in the bargain. Kerr again demonstrated that he is worthy of the left wing position”
“Kerr showed up well, but was inclined to use his stick pretty freely for tripping and hooking”
“...the manner in which Stuart, Walsh, Kerr and Gilmour checked back was disastrous to the most heroic efforts of the Wanderers”
“Kerr at left wing had the better of Johnston, showing more speed than the Wanderer man at the finish and being more unselfish”
“Kerr put up the best game he has played since joining the Ottawas. He showed all kinds of speed, took passes nicely, and shot like a fiend”
“Kerr was not as spectacular as in the other games he has played here, showing the effects of his week’s rest, but at that he had the hardest worker on the Quebec team to handle in Chubby Power. Kerr played his wing to perfection in the latter part of the game and Power found it much harder to scoot up the right side than in the first half”
“Darragh held Kerr down well”
“Walsh, Stuart and Gilmour were always effective after they got settled down while ‘Dubbie’ Kerr was the most conspicuous man on the ice, working like a beaver. Kerr’s dashes down the sides were splendid. Taylor was the best man on the Ottawa team, on the night’s play, he doing a marvelous amount of work”
“Kerr improved as the game wore on until at the finish he was the outstanding feature of the Ottawa line. As the youngster of the team, he was dropped whenever Ottawa had to drop a player, but his play was of a class to warrant him being the last chosen for a side line position”
Kerr was listed as having scored 20 goals on the year in the postseason list published by an unnamed hockey statistician after the season. This tracks nicely with the 19.83 goals my split goal system credits Kerr with.
Scoring Tables (not counting the points that are disputed):
1909 (ECHA)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]League Rank[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Team Rank[/TD]
[TD]Goals[/TD]
[TD]Assists[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Herb Jordan[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Bruce Stuart[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Dubbie Kerr[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Chubby Power[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]League Rank[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Team Rank[/TD]
[TD]Goals[/TD]
[TD]Assists[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Herb Jordan[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Bruce Stuart[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Dubbie Kerr[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Chubby Power[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1909 (ECHA)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]League Rank[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Team Rank[/TD]
[TD]Goals[/TD]
[TD]Assists[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]41.33[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]49.33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Herb Jordan[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]31.5[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]36.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Bruce Stuart[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20.83[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]33.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Dubbie Kerr[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]19.83[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]26.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Chubby Power[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]3.5[/TD]
[TD]24.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]League Rank[/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Team Rank[/TD]
[TD]Goals[/TD]
[TD]Assists[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Marty Walsh[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]41.33[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]49.33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Herb Jordan[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]31.5[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]36.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Bruce Stuart[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20.83[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]33.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Dubbie Kerr[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa HC[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]19.83[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]26.83[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Chubby Power[/TD]
[TD]Quebec HC[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]3.5[/TD]
[TD]24.50[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Harry Smith
The third Smith brother to make it into consideration for our list, Harry Smith was more Tommy than Alf- he played in a bunch of different leagues and was mostly known for his scoring ability as opposed to his all around game. His Senior level hockey began in 1905 with 1 game in the FAHL (that I won’t get into here) and a handful of games in the OHA and stretched all the way to a couple of games for Ottawa in the 1913-14 NHA season. During this time, Harry Smith played for no less than (if I am counting right on the wiki page) 14 teams in 9 leagues. That’s kind of amazing, right? This team-jumping, as previously discussed, hurts his VsX equivalent scores. I feel very comfortable in stating that Smith was a better scorer than those numbers show, but I am less certain about just how much better. Selection of Quotes (1906-1907 ; 1909)
1906 (ECAHA)
“The stellar performer for Ottawa however, was Westwick. The little man is certainly a wonder and his juggling of the puck was remarkable. He was closely followed in clever work by Harry Smith who has all the qualities of a great player in his composition. He shines particularly in shooting the puck and his aim should easily entitle him to a place on the Bisley team”
“On the forward line Harry Smith, Alf. Smith and Westwick took turn in doing the forward work”
“The Smith brothers showed themselves dangerous shots, both having the knack of shooting from awkward positions at unexpected times. Gilmour did good work for his first appearance on skates”
“Harry Smith was mediocre and spent too much time at the side in the first half to merit any great recognition. He is not in the same class as his brother”
“The work of the Smiths was particularly brilliant, and the shooting of the younger brother of the highest order. He scored the majority of Ottawa’s goals after brilliant work or on a pass from A. Smith, the latter playing a hard tireless game and boring right in on the visitors’ defence regardless of the heavy checking of Strachan and Patrick”
“...yet the expert stickhandling and clever all-round work of Harry Smith and of Dion, while he was in play, makes the present aggregation the equal of the famous septette of 1906”
“...the excellent shooting of the Smith brothers”
“Harry Smith is certainly a puzzle to opposing defence men. His shots come when least expected”
“This was due particularly to the salient work of Harry Smith, who set off at a terrific pace and singled himself out at once as one of the successes of the season”
“His [Harry Smith’s] shooting was extraordinary deadly”
“On the Ottawa side, the bright particular star was Alf. Smith, though his brother did some very spectacular work, yet he has not that wonderful initiative of Alf. and the faculty for making openings for others. To Alf. belongs the credit for almost every goal Harry scores, but it is a great deal to take advantage of opportunities. Harry is a wonderful shot, but he does not feed so well as he is fed”
“The two Smiths were very reliable and always in the right place”
“Harry Smith did all the scoring for his team, but in every instance it was from a shot after receiving the puck on a pass from his brother or Westwick”
“For Victorias Bowie and Russell were the leaders in all the rushes, while for the champions Harry Smith and Westwick were the astral luminaries”
“Pulford played a great game for the champions as also did Hague in the nets while on the forward line Westwick, H. Smith, and Alf. Smith worked unselfishly and brilliantly together”
“...H. Smith and Westwick showing up particularly well. Smith proved himself an adept at shooting”
“Harry Smith has shown such for that it is unlikely he would be displaced for either of the Gilmours, and he represents the only change on the old seven”
“Strength and weight told here, too, and when Bowie and Russell began to tire the strain showed little sign on the work of the Smiths. Alf was playing under his own conditions and right to the end he succeeded rush with rush up his side of the rink”
“Harry Smith’s shooting was not up to his reputation; in fact his play was slightly off, due perhaps to his playing away from his side, and left Johnson too free a hand”
“...had H. Smith, Moore and Pulford badly outplayed”
“Alf. Smith and Westwick were putting up the star games while Harry Smith did most of the scoring as usual”
“Alf. Smith was master of the situation on his side of the rink, and Harry was not to be outdone opposite”
“The Smiths, Alf and Harry, on the wings, were the steadiest performers on their team”
“Harry Smith scored five goals and every one of them from the side, and that shows rather conclusively how he was breaking through”
“Harry Smith was doing strong execution on his side, while Alf Smith had been working well on the other, and it was apparent that the open wings were going to bother the Wanderer defence”
“Harry Smith stood out prominently among the players. While he did not do the amount of skating that Harry Westwick, McGee, and brother Alf, his dashes starting from close quarters were phenomenal, while his shooting was always fast, strong and accurate”
1907 (ECAHA)
“Westwick and Harry Smith appeared to have somewhat of an off night. Westwick missed many good chances to score, which on other nights he would have converted easily. Then Harry Smith did not bore in as he usually does, nor was he as accurate in his shooting. He redeemed himself towards the last, however, by making some pretty rushes down the ice and scored a couple of goals”
“Harry Smith had them all guessing”
“‘Rat’ Westwick was the dead one of the team with Harry Smith running a close second for the distinction”
“Alf and Harry Smith were also prominent”
“In centre ice Patrick and Glass had Harry Smith and Westwick faded”
“Harry Smith did not shine to any extent in the first half, but played like Trojans as the game went on”
“Harry Smith scored one goal as the result of a beautiful rush through the Shamrock defence”
“The two Smiths, the men who were singled out for arrest for their work in the Wanderer match, were the two most brilliant men on the ice”
“The Ottawas were greatly handicapped by the loss of Harry Smith, and their combination was not as good as usual”
“Harry Smith arose from his sick bed and put up a phenomenal article of hockey. He didn’t work as hard as the others, but played a shrewd game. Always in his position Harry shot true every time. He scored six goals and effected three or four spectacular rushes”
“Harry Smith’s shots fooled Frye every time”
“For the Ottawas Alf. Smith played the best game, and he and Harry Smith worked in several two-men combinations which usually resulted in a score. Alf. worked like a trojan and would repeatedly make a beautiful rush down the ice to find no one there to assist him. Wanderers knew he was the most dangerous man on the ice and checked him closely”
“Harry Smith was there with his star shooting, but got little opportunity to get near the nets. He and Alf. did some nice passing and rained many hard shots at Hern”
“Harry Smith’s shooting resulted in three goals, and next to Alf., he was the most effective of the Ottawa forwards”
“Harry Smith, while he did some scoring, with Alf’s assistance, was a weakness to his team in the first half by being off for a total of twelve minutes”
“The blow came as a surprise to the Senators, and when they saw defeat creeping nearer and near as the match progressed, so did they lose their confidence. Harry, of the Smith’s was not the least of these and he slid about the ice as if the team did not need his services, and Pulford following his lead considerably weakened the line up of the visitors”
1909 (ECHA)
“Ross was in dine form on the defence, also Hern and Smaill, while of the forwards Johnston and Smith were the pick. Johnston covered and immense amount of ice”
“Taylor and Lake were fine as defence on the other side. When it comes to forwards there was little to choose. Marty Walsh is very quick but Harry Smith in a more quiet way is quite as effective”
“There was bad blood between the Stuarts and Smiths in the old Ottawa days, and the feud is one of long standing”
“Smith shone through his scoring ability, achieving the remarkable feat of netting for goals in a time that totalled 93 seconds”
“Smith and Glass bored in on the Ottawa cage with a persistence that told on the evening’s play”
“Harry Smith also proved his claims to be one of the scorers of the team by netting three of the goals”
“Smith and Glass not playing to recent form, while Johnston and Gardner did a lot of hard, useful work. Johnston solved the Quebec defence better than any of the others, and, scoring four times himself, assisted with the pass that gave Wanderers a fifth”
“Glass and Smith did not show up as well as in recent matches on the general play. Smith was watched closely”
“Smith’s work was not as good his last few times out, as when he came to Montreal for the cup series with Edmonton”
“Steve Vair at centre was not the scorer that Harry Smith was, but his work was equally as valuable for he was always on hand to take a pass and in addition to scoring one goal he did a lot of other useful work”
“Wanderers missed the shooting of Smith very much”
“He [Vair] is speedy, a good stick handler, and has everything to make him useful to a first class team. He is a better mid-ice player than Smith, although not as good as Smith, when the latter is going right, at taking advantage of chances in front of a goal net”
“The stellar performer for Ottawa however, was Westwick. The little man is certainly a wonder and his juggling of the puck was remarkable. He was closely followed in clever work by Harry Smith who has all the qualities of a great player in his composition. He shines particularly in shooting the puck and his aim should easily entitle him to a place on the Bisley team”
“On the forward line Harry Smith, Alf. Smith and Westwick took turn in doing the forward work”
“The Smith brothers showed themselves dangerous shots, both having the knack of shooting from awkward positions at unexpected times. Gilmour did good work for his first appearance on skates”
“Harry Smith was mediocre and spent too much time at the side in the first half to merit any great recognition. He is not in the same class as his brother”
“The work of the Smiths was particularly brilliant, and the shooting of the younger brother of the highest order. He scored the majority of Ottawa’s goals after brilliant work or on a pass from A. Smith, the latter playing a hard tireless game and boring right in on the visitors’ defence regardless of the heavy checking of Strachan and Patrick”
“...yet the expert stickhandling and clever all-round work of Harry Smith and of Dion, while he was in play, makes the present aggregation the equal of the famous septette of 1906”
“...the excellent shooting of the Smith brothers”
“Harry Smith is certainly a puzzle to opposing defence men. His shots come when least expected”
“This was due particularly to the salient work of Harry Smith, who set off at a terrific pace and singled himself out at once as one of the successes of the season”
“His [Harry Smith’s] shooting was extraordinary deadly”
“On the Ottawa side, the bright particular star was Alf. Smith, though his brother did some very spectacular work, yet he has not that wonderful initiative of Alf. and the faculty for making openings for others. To Alf. belongs the credit for almost every goal Harry scores, but it is a great deal to take advantage of opportunities. Harry is a wonderful shot, but he does not feed so well as he is fed”
“The two Smiths were very reliable and always in the right place”
“Harry Smith did all the scoring for his team, but in every instance it was from a shot after receiving the puck on a pass from his brother or Westwick”
“For Victorias Bowie and Russell were the leaders in all the rushes, while for the champions Harry Smith and Westwick were the astral luminaries”
“Pulford played a great game for the champions as also did Hague in the nets while on the forward line Westwick, H. Smith, and Alf. Smith worked unselfishly and brilliantly together”
“...H. Smith and Westwick showing up particularly well. Smith proved himself an adept at shooting”
“Harry Smith has shown such for that it is unlikely he would be displaced for either of the Gilmours, and he represents the only change on the old seven”
“Strength and weight told here, too, and when Bowie and Russell began to tire the strain showed little sign on the work of the Smiths. Alf was playing under his own conditions and right to the end he succeeded rush with rush up his side of the rink”
“Harry Smith’s shooting was not up to his reputation; in fact his play was slightly off, due perhaps to his playing away from his side, and left Johnson too free a hand”
“...had H. Smith, Moore and Pulford badly outplayed”
“Alf. Smith and Westwick were putting up the star games while Harry Smith did most of the scoring as usual”
“Alf. Smith was master of the situation on his side of the rink, and Harry was not to be outdone opposite”
“The Smiths, Alf and Harry, on the wings, were the steadiest performers on their team”
“Harry Smith scored five goals and every one of them from the side, and that shows rather conclusively how he was breaking through”
“Harry Smith was doing strong execution on his side, while Alf Smith had been working well on the other, and it was apparent that the open wings were going to bother the Wanderer defence”
“Harry Smith stood out prominently among the players. While he did not do the amount of skating that Harry Westwick, McGee, and brother Alf, his dashes starting from close quarters were phenomenal, while his shooting was always fast, strong and accurate”
1907 (ECAHA)
“Westwick and Harry Smith appeared to have somewhat of an off night. Westwick missed many good chances to score, which on other nights he would have converted easily. Then Harry Smith did not bore in as he usually does, nor was he as accurate in his shooting. He redeemed himself towards the last, however, by making some pretty rushes down the ice and scored a couple of goals”
“Harry Smith had them all guessing”
“‘Rat’ Westwick was the dead one of the team with Harry Smith running a close second for the distinction”
“Alf and Harry Smith were also prominent”
“In centre ice Patrick and Glass had Harry Smith and Westwick faded”
“Harry Smith did not shine to any extent in the first half, but played like Trojans as the game went on”
“Harry Smith scored one goal as the result of a beautiful rush through the Shamrock defence”
“The two Smiths, the men who were singled out for arrest for their work in the Wanderer match, were the two most brilliant men on the ice”
“The Ottawas were greatly handicapped by the loss of Harry Smith, and their combination was not as good as usual”
“Harry Smith arose from his sick bed and put up a phenomenal article of hockey. He didn’t work as hard as the others, but played a shrewd game. Always in his position Harry shot true every time. He scored six goals and effected three or four spectacular rushes”
“Harry Smith’s shots fooled Frye every time”
“For the Ottawas Alf. Smith played the best game, and he and Harry Smith worked in several two-men combinations which usually resulted in a score. Alf. worked like a trojan and would repeatedly make a beautiful rush down the ice to find no one there to assist him. Wanderers knew he was the most dangerous man on the ice and checked him closely”
“Harry Smith was there with his star shooting, but got little opportunity to get near the nets. He and Alf. did some nice passing and rained many hard shots at Hern”
“Harry Smith’s shooting resulted in three goals, and next to Alf., he was the most effective of the Ottawa forwards”
“Harry Smith, while he did some scoring, with Alf’s assistance, was a weakness to his team in the first half by being off for a total of twelve minutes”
“The blow came as a surprise to the Senators, and when they saw defeat creeping nearer and near as the match progressed, so did they lose their confidence. Harry, of the Smith’s was not the least of these and he slid about the ice as if the team did not need his services, and Pulford following his lead considerably weakened the line up of the visitors”
1909 (ECHA)
“Ross was in dine form on the defence, also Hern and Smaill, while of the forwards Johnston and Smith were the pick. Johnston covered and immense amount of ice”
“Taylor and Lake were fine as defence on the other side. When it comes to forwards there was little to choose. Marty Walsh is very quick but Harry Smith in a more quiet way is quite as effective”
“There was bad blood between the Stuarts and Smiths in the old Ottawa days, and the feud is one of long standing”
“Smith shone through his scoring ability, achieving the remarkable feat of netting for goals in a time that totalled 93 seconds”
“Smith and Glass bored in on the Ottawa cage with a persistence that told on the evening’s play”
“Harry Smith also proved his claims to be one of the scorers of the team by netting three of the goals”
“Smith and Glass not playing to recent form, while Johnston and Gardner did a lot of hard, useful work. Johnston solved the Quebec defence better than any of the others, and, scoring four times himself, assisted with the pass that gave Wanderers a fifth”
“Glass and Smith did not show up as well as in recent matches on the general play. Smith was watched closely”
“Smith’s work was not as good his last few times out, as when he came to Montreal for the cup series with Edmonton”
“Steve Vair at centre was not the scorer that Harry Smith was, but his work was equally as valuable for he was always on hand to take a pass and in addition to scoring one goal he did a lot of other useful work”
“Wanderers missed the shooting of Smith very much”
“He [Vair] is speedy, a good stick handler, and has everything to make him useful to a first class team. He is a better mid-ice player than Smith, although not as good as Smith, when the latter is going right, at taking advantage of chances in front of a goal net”
Scoring Tables (not counting the points that are disputed):
1906 (ECAHA)
1907 (ECAHA)
1909 (ECHA)- Harry Smith only played 4 games, so he’s pretty far down in the charts. However, he was pacing for a 4th or 5th place finish.
| League Rank | Name | Team | Team Rank | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 1 | 29 | 6 | 35 |
| 2 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 1 | 29 | 1 | 30 |
| 3 | Frank McGee | Ottawa HC | 2 | 23 | 2 | 25 |
| 4 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 3 | 10 | 14 | 24 |
| 5 | Joe Power | Quebec HC | 1 | 20 | 2 | 22 |
| 6 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 1 | 20 | 1 | 21 |
| 7 | Herb Jordan | Quebec HC | 2 | 15 | 5 | 20 |
| 8 | Walter Smaill | Montreal HC | 1 | 18 | 0 | 18 |
| 9 | Lester Patrick | Wanderers | 2 | 14 | 1 | 15 |
| 10 | Ernie Johnson | Wanderers | 3 | 12 | 1 | 13 |
| T-11 | Grover Sargent | Montreal HC | 2 | 8 | 3 | 11 |
| T-11 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 4 | 7 | 4 | 11 |
1907 (ECAHA)
| League Rank | Name | Team | Team Rank | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 1 | 37 | 11 | 48 |
| 2 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 1 | 38 | 2 | 40 |
| 3 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 1 | 16 | 15 | 31 |
| T-4 | Blair Russell | Victorias | 2 | 21 | 2 | 23 |
| T-4 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 2 | 20 | 3 | 23 |
| 6 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 3 | 12 | 10 | 22 |
1909 (ECHA)- Harry Smith only played 4 games, so he’s pretty far down in the charts. However, he was pacing for a 4th or 5th place finish.
Scoring Tables (counting disputed points; split points worth .5 (or .33) points, maybe points given full credit but not added to goals or assists):
1906 (ECAHA)
1907 (ECAHA)
| League Rank | Name | Team | Team Rank | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 1 | 29.5 | 6 | 35.5 |
| 2 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 1 | 32 | 1 | 33 |
| 3 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 2 | 12.5 | 16.5 | 30 |
| 4 | Frank McGee | Ottawa HC | 3 | 26 | 2 | 28 |
| 5 | Joe Power | Quebec HC | 1 | 24.5 | 2 | 26.5 |
| T-6 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 1 | 20.5 | 1 | 21.5 |
| T-6 | Herb Jordan | Quebec HC | 2 | 16.5 | 5 | 21.5 |
| T-8 | Walter Smaill | Montreal HC | 1 | 18 | 0 | 18 |
| T-8 | Lester Patrick | Wanderers | 2 | 16 | 1 | 18 |
| 10 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 4 | 7.5 | 7 | 14.5 |
1907 (ECAHA)
| League Rank | Name | Team | Team Rank | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 1 | 38.5 | 11.5 | 50 |
| 2 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 1 | 38.5 | 2.5 | 41 |
| 3 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 1 | 17.33 | 16 | 34.33 |
| T-4 | Blair Russell | Victorias | 2 | 22 | 3 | 27 |
| T-4 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 2 | 21 | 4 | 27 |
| 6 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 3 | 12.83 | 10.5 | 23.33 |
Scoring tables, if we assign players a proportional percentage of the unknown goals, rounded to the hundredth (first table for each year is without the split credit points, the second table includes them):
1907 (ECAHA)- Quebec HC had 24 UNK goals, Wanderers 10, Montreal HC 5, and Shamrocks 5. Because there are some discrepancies in scores (I have Montreal scoring either 105 or 107 goals, and Quebec HC scoring 60, 62, or 65 depending on the source) and I don’t want to run the numbers multiple times when it wouldn’t make all that much of a difference, I’m splitting the difference; I’m running the Wanderers’ players’ numbers against a total of 106 and the Quebec players against a total of 62.
1909 (ECHA)- Harry Smith only played 4 games, so he’s pretty far down in the charts. However, he was pacing for a 4th or 5th place finish.
| Rank | Name | Team | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 37 | 11 | 48 |
| 2 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 41.96 | 2 | 43.96 |
| 3 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 16 | 15 | 31 |
| T-4 | Blair Russell | Victorias | 21 | 2 | 23 |
| T-4 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 20 | 3 | 23 |
| 6 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 12 | 10 | 22 |
| Rank | Name | Team | Goals | Assists | Points |
| 1 | Russell Bowie | Victorias | 38.5 | 11.5 | 50 |
| 2 | Ernie Russell | Wanderers | 42.51 | 2.5 | 46.01 |
| 3 | Alf Smith | Ottawa HC | 17.33 | 16 | 34.33 |
| T-4 | Blair Russell | Victorias | 22 | 3 | 27 |
| T-4 | Harry Smith | Ottawa HC | 21 | 4 | 27 |
| 6 | Rat Westwick | Ottawa HC | 12.83 | 10.5 | 23.33 |
1909 (ECHA)- Harry Smith only played 4 games, so he’s pretty far down in the charts. However, he was pacing for a 4th or 5th place finish.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Dickie Boon and Dubbie Kerr are the names that stick out amongst newcomers.
Jack Adams will be ranked for me this week. He seems to have a real star for the Millionaires and a mean player to play against. His VsX stands out very strongly and he was competent defensively. There's a lot to like when we're down to the 60th spot.
Jack Adams will be ranked for me this week. He seems to have a real star for the Millionaires and a mean player to play against. His VsX stands out very strongly and he was competent defensively. There's a lot to like when we're down to the 60th spot.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Okay so that didn't work out.
I will start posting at least on the weekend try and give this thread some juice
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
- 12,225
- 6,716
"Dicky Boon" sounds a bit dirty to my ears, but I would still vote him in this round alongside Rat Westwick. I've also always liked Jack Darragh's penchant for big game scoring. Darragh, despite not having a junior background in hockey, was still a rover early on in his career (before the NHA abandoned the position) which means he was probably a pretty good and natural skater.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Wow, I mean, if these were the only three quotes we had about how Alf Smith and Harry Smith played, we would still have a pretty good idea of what kind of players they were, wouldn't we?
I have both Boon and Westwick ranked for this round- I think we as a group underestimated Boon in our preliminary lists, and he probably should be ranked higher (if we re-do this list in 10 years, I hope he gets some more love there). I mean, I'm pretty sure we can trace the best coverpoint in Canada from 1887-1909, and I'd have Boon there (we could probably even do worldwide, and while Stuart would eat into Boon's run a bit, I'd still have Boon on the list there in the early 1900s).
Westwick I struggle with in that he has a lot of name recognition, but he was on some stacked teams. Was he ever even the 3rd best guy on his team? I don't know that he was, I'd always have McGee and Alf Smith over him. Walsh the year they overlapped. Phillips the year they overlapped. Pulford. LeSueur when they overlapped. Taylor. Young. Billy Gilmour (another player we did dirty here- reading through the scans and what people were writing when all these players started being inducted into the HHoF and/or dying, Billy Gilmour was a very well respected player). So... yeah. I like Westwick, I'm just not sure if he name recognition is warranted. But, like I said, I ended up ranking him this round, so IDK.
I feel like Darragh kind of suffers from the same thing as Westwick, right? Man, Ottawa had a lot of talent roll through over the 40-odd years we are looking at here.
Yeah, I think so too. Probably two of the players I can visualize the best from this era.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
- 12,225
- 6,716
Right, but I think we can find pros and cons for all these guys, as with most modern players as well. It's the same type of exercise. As for playing on stacked teams, I know he's long gone at this point regarding this list, and I never made that argument when it was up in the air, but Sprague Cleghorn for instance didn't accomplish much in terms of team success when he played with Renfrew and the Wanderers, and those teams bled some pretty serious goals against in some years over a 7-year period, then he's on that Ottawa team for a fairly short period of time, a team that won yet another Cup in 1923 shortly after he had left.
Westwick was probably more of a hockey player than say Pulford. Pulford was a great all-round athlete and a physical specimen, but I doubt he was much of a hockey player in terms of actual puck and stick skills, for what it's worth. I guess it depends a bit on how you want to value or interpret the role of the rover as well. Ds (especially the point) and centres during this era weren't really two-way players until the 1910s/late 1910s, that's what made guys like (Hod) Stuart and Nighbor special.
