Top 40 Canucks of All-Time Preliminary Discussion Thread - Lists Now Being Accepted

[Captain Bowie]

So goalies are included? I assume so as there is no exclusion, just checking. Lou should make the list, otherwise I have a hard time to see anyone crack the top 40.

Yes Goalies are included, and I would expect Luongo, McLean and Brodeur to be on everyone's top 60 list.

 

[LiveeviL]

He was a pretty major part of the team. He played 7 full seasons, playing over 50 games in 6, was the team MVP 3 times and won the Molson Cup for most three star selections 4 times. He was also a huge part of the '82 team's improbable run to the finals. Maybe in an absolute list of simply best players he might not make it, but in terms of importance to the franchise, absolutely.

Well that sounds a bit better, I agree. It is good to discuss these things in this thread. When I wrote that I just had taken a glance at the wiki for him and it only lists 3 meh seasons (yes wikipedia...). The text mentions that it actually was more seasons but no stats.

Still the top 40 is a crowded place. I would for sure rank him low. I am more worried about deserving D men (especially defensive ones) who are not recent will be lost in the ranking. What to do about that? A stalwart defensive D-man in he 70's or 80's? Anyone who come to mind?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Here's a full game from the 1982 Finals, which is a pretty terrific resource for people too young to remember this time period (sounds like you and I are a similar age):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_fpubPL10

oh wow, thanks. really looking forward to watching this.

2 Guys I've love to hear about are Snepsts and Kearns. Dennis Kearns played 10 years with the Canucks, and lead the team in assists 4 times. Snepsts played 16 years, wasn't much of an offensive contributor, but more of a rugged, tough defender right?

Would there be any argument to say they are the 2 best defenceman for the first 20 years in Canucks history?

someone (was it hardy?) has reported that kearns was a whipping boy during his years here. that's all i know so far.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Still the top 40 is a crowded place. I would for sure rank him low. I am more worried about deserving D men (especially defensive ones) who are not recent will be lost in the ranking. What to do about that? A stalwart defensive D-man in he 70's or 80's? Anyone who come to mind?

Too bad we didn't get Jiri Bubla much earlier in his career. His style of play seemed to fit perfectly with the "North American style" at the time. The already mentioned Snepsts comes to mind when we're talking about stalwart defensive D men from the 70s/early 80s. Lars Lindgren was pretty solid for us as well.

 

[MS]

Still the top 40 is a crowded place. I would for sure rank him low. I am more worried about deserving D men (especially defensive ones) who are not recent will be lost in the ranking. What to do about that? A stalwart defensive D-man in he 70's or 80's? Anyone who come to mind?

Snepsts has already been mentioned and will probably be in the top 20.

Lars Lindgren, Garth Butcher, Kevin McCarthy will be other guys who might make my top-60 prelim list. Butcher for sure. McCarthy is hurt by missing the '82 Finals run through injury.

Tracy Pratt had one great defensive season and then faded. Bob Dailey probably wasn't here long enough (and went the wrong way in the 3rd-worst trade in franchise history after Neely and Vaive).

 

[Barney Gumble]

McCarthy is hurt by missing the '82 Finals run through injury.

Freak accident I recall wasn't it? Forgot who he ran into during practice.

 

[MS]

Freak accident I recall wasn't it? Forgot who he ran into during practice.

Broken ankle running into Curt Fraser.

McCarthy will be an interesting player to rate. Had a very high 4-year peak where he was the team's TOI leader and #1 defender, played in an All-Star game, and scored 40 points every year (Lumme is the only other Canuck defender with 4 40 point seasons) but only had those 4 full years as a Canuck. And missed the 1982 run.

 

[Hammer Time]

I'm assuming the following would be locks ...

Boudrias, Smyl, Tanti, Gradin, Linden, Adams, Ronning, Bure, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Mogilny, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Kesler, Burrows

Ohlund, Salo, Lumme, Jovanovski, Hamhuis, Snepsts, Edler, Reinhart, Lidster

Luongo, McLean, Brodeur

That's 28 so far. Any notables I missed?

 

[Captain Bowie]

I'm assuming the following would be locks ...

Boudrias, Smyl, Tanti, Gradin, Linden, Adams, Ronning, Bure, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Mogilny, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Kesler, Burrows

Ohlund, Salo, Lumme, Jovanovski, Hamhuis, Snepsts, Edler, Reinhart, Lidster

Luongo, McLean, Brodeur

That's 28 so far. Any notables I missed?

Why would Reinhart be a lock? Only played here 2 years. Was essentially a 4th forward, didn't play a whole lot of D.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Why would Reinhart be a lock? Only played here 2 years. Was essentially a 4th forward, didn't play a whole lot of D.

I think Reinhart will be a lock to be on my preliminary list as will Geoff courtnall, Darcy Rota, Don Lever and someone I'm missing right now...lol

It's not only how good Paul was in his 2 seasons, it's how bad we have been and how few stars we have had over the years.

Barry Pederson is the guy I was thinking about.

When do you want the lists in BTW?

 

[Captain Bowie]

I think Reinhart will be a lock to be on my preliminary list as will Geoff courtnall, Darcy Rota, Don Lever and someone I'm missing right now...lol

It's not only how good Paul was in his 2 seasons, it's how bad we have been and how few stars we have had over the years.

Barry Pederson is the guy I was thinking about.

When do you want the lists in BTW?

Not until well into the new year, for sure.

I dunno. I definitely lean towards longevity over 1 or 2 good years for my list. Not saying Reinhart doesn't have a shot, but he is far from a lock on my list. I'll definitely have guys that were steady rocks on the blueline, even just for a few years longer than Reinhart was a "standout" on the blueline. Guys like Mitchell, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Babych come to mind. I don't know as much about earlier era guys that would fit this group, perhaps someone can shine some light on it.

I'd also be interested to hear a more in-depth analysis of Reinharts play during his time with the Canucks.

 

[Regal]

Not until well into the new year, for sure.

I dunno. I definitely lean towards longevity over 1 or 2 good years for my list. Not saying Reinhart doesn't have a shot, but he is far from a lock on my list. I'll definitely have guys that were steady rocks on the blueline, even just for a few years longer than Reinhart was a "standout" on the blueline. Guys like Mitchell, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Babych come to mind. I don't know as much about earlier era guys that would fit this group, perhaps someone can shine some light on it.

I'd also be interested to hear a more in-depth analysis of Reinharts play during his time with the Canucks.

I'm of the same mindset I think. I'm pretty sure he'll be in the top 60 list, but not sure about top 40. I would definitely put all of those other guys above him, except maybe Mitchell. I always hear about how good he was from old time Canuck fans, but I have a feeling a lot of it was based on perception from watching generally crappy defensemen for most of the team's history at that point. He was a good player, but it's not as if he was an all time great making a pit stop like say Pronger in Edmonton or Bourque in Colorado.

 

[ChilliBilly]

two guys i haven't seen mentioned are Bubla and Hlinka. Both were impressive in the short time they were with the Canucks. Certainly not top 20 but maybe top 40 and really should be in the top 60 ....

 

[LiveeviL]

Jarkko Ruutu? He has at least the seasons under his belt. He was no great producer of points, but there are other... aspects to him.

 

[Hardyvan123]

two guys i haven't seen mentioned are Bubla and Hlinka. Both were impressive in the short time they were with the Canucks. Certainly not top 20 but maybe top 40 and really should be in the top 60 ....

Hard to see Hlinka making the list say over a guy like Mike "Shaky" Walton.

Hlinka looks good in PPG but it's the early 80's and that inflates his 2 year production a bit.

bubla has a larger resume but was a bit of a black hole defensively and a bit like the Czech older version of Jovo a guy who played a rough game abut that disguised his defensive shortcomings a bit.

the weird thing is that the Canucks all time depth is alot like now really low the 60th position player sits at only 289 Games played (Darcy rota, who is going to make my top 60 list).

Aside from goalies is there anyone on page 2 on the lsit going to bump anyone from the top 50 guys or so in GP on this list (some of the guys after 60 are going to slide up like Pederson, Boldirev, Gelinas and maybe Kurtenbach and Schmautz.

I actually went to high school with Bobby's daughter and remember her as a nice girl, although her last name gave her a not so nice nickname for a girl as is apt for high school crap that went on then.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=games_played

 

[Hardyvan123]

Jarkko Ruutu? He has at least the seasons under his belt. He was no great producer of points, but there are other... aspects to him.

I like Ruttu but he is 67th in games played, did he do enough besides scoring to make a top 60 list, that I'm not sure of.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Hard to see Hlinka making the list say over a guy like Mike "Shaky" Walton.

Hlinka looks good in PPG but it's the early 80's and that inflates his 2 year production a bit.

bubla has a larger resume but was a bit of a black hole defensively and a bit like the Czech older version of Jovo a guy who played a rough game abut that disguised his defensive shortcomings a bit.

seems like if a guy like bubla is going to be a consideration, then a rock like diduck comes onto the table first.

in terms of guys who weren't here for very long, i remember diduck, gelinas, and malhotra very fondly. ehrhoff probably belongs there too but his numbers speak for themselves.

hardy, you've watched the team for longer than i've been alive. of the names bandied about -- boldirev, hlinka, bubla, reinhart, walton, schmautz, rota (and guevremont, sedlbauer, dailey, gould, blight...) -- did any of them wildly exceed what we can see retrospectively on paper the way diduck or manny did?


(and you know, i suspect thirty years from now someone's going to look and wonder who the hell jannik hansen was, the way i am right now with chris oddleifson.)

 

[kmad]

I have only heard horrible things about Kearns. Anyone who watched him play seems to think he's the worst player ever to put on the Canucks jersey.

I've got my top ** solidified. Burrows and Kesler at ** and **. I am having a hard time justifying that, though. Are Burrows' playoff heroics and his shorthanded goal against Carolina enough to put him ahead of Kesler's regular season + Nashville series heroics? I think I just don't like Kesler.

edit: not supposed to rank players outright.

 

[kmad]

Yes Goalies are included, and I would expect Luongo, McLean and Brodeur to be on everyone's top 60 list.

Gary Smith and Dan Cloutier have shots.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I have only heard horrible things about Kearns. Anyone who watched him play seems to think he's the worst player ever to put on the Canucks jersey.

I've got my top 13 solidified. Burrows and Kesler at 12 and 13. I am having a hard time justifying that, though. Are Burrows' playoff heroics and his shorthanded goal against Carolina enough to put him ahead of Kesler's regular season + Nashville series heroics? I think I just don't like Kesler.

I know what you mean. I hated Matt Cooke even when he was a Canuck. But trying to look at his time here objectively, surprised he played 566 games here, which is 18th all-time.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Gary Smith and Dan Cloutier have shots.

Definitely. But those 3 should be on everyone's list.

 

[kmad]

Definitely. But those 3 should be on everyone's list.

No question.

I've got my top 19 figured out. My top five defensemen in order are Ohlund-Snepsts-Hamhuis-Lumme-Salo. I won't slot them in yet but the next three are going to be Bieksa-Edler-Jovanovski in order.

 

[vancityluongo]

I have only heard horrible things about Kearns. Anyone who watched him play seems to think he's the worst player ever to put on the Canucks jersey.

I've got my top 13 solidified. Burrows and Kesler at 12 and 13. I am having a hard time justifying that, though. Are Burrows' playoff heroics and his shorthanded goal against Carolina enough to put him ahead of Kesler's regular season + Nashville series heroics? I think I just don't like Kesler.

Kesler has a Selke, but surprisingly they've actually played almost the same number of games as a Canuck (Kesler had about 40 more before this season).

Kesler is unquestionably the better player, but as far as importance to the franchise? I'd still have him above Burrows but it's debatable.

 

[Captain Bowie]

No question.

I've got my top 19 figured out. My top five defensemen in order are Ohlund-Snepsts-Hamhuis-Lumme-Salo. I won't slot them in yet but the next three are going to be Bieksa-Edler-Jovanovski in order.

I have my top... 5 figured out lol.

I'm having a hard time sorting out Gradin-Smyl-Tanti. What order should they be in? How much bump does Smyl get for being the captain and fan favorite?

 

[Hardyvan123]

seems like if a guy like bubla is going to be a consideration, then a rock like diduck comes onto the table first.

in terms of guys who weren't here for very long, i remember diduck, gelinas, and malhotra very fondly. ehrhoff probably belongs there too but his numbers speak for themselves.

hardy, you've watched the team for longer than i've been alive. of the names bandied about -- boldirev, hlinka, bubla, reinhart, walton, schmautz, rota (and guevremont, sedlbauer, dailey, gould, blight...) -- did any of them wildly exceed what we can see retrospectively on paper the way diduck or manny did?


(and you know, i suspect thirty years from now someone's going to look and wonder who the hell jannik hansen was, the way i am right now with chris oddleifson.)

Oddleifson, despite his warts was a much better player than Hansen is.


I don't know if any of those guys exceeded what they did on paper but I feel sort of the same way about the 4 more recent guys you mentioned as well.

for the most part the Canucks were both poorly constructed and poorly run for most of their history and it really isn't going to take that much to make it into any top 60 Canuck all time list.