MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
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Ahead of Bossy by a landslide. I feel Bossy is more comparable to Ted Lindsay.
Weren't the results lost? Or you're just going by memory?
Ahead of Bossy by a landslide. I feel Bossy is more comparable to Ted Lindsay.
1915 Stanley Cup Finals
VANCOUVER MILLIONAIRES VS. OTTAWA SENATORS
Game 1: Vancouver Daily World, 23 Mar 1915 (6-2 Win)
Lineups
Vancouver-----TEAM-----Ottawa
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Patrick-----Point-----Merrill
Cook-----Coverpoint-----Ross
Taylor-----Rover-----Gerard
MacKay-----Center-----Duford
Nighbor-----RW-----Broadbent
Stanley-----LW-----Graham
Frank Nighbor was the bright and shining light of the forward line, although "Cyclone" Taylor's work is not to be underrated.The local wing displayed great speed and stick handled in a manner which brought forth expression of admiration from the fans.He was more than a match for Darragh and was especially good on defensive work.
Game 2: Vancouver Daily World, 25 Mar 1915 (8-3 Win)
Lineups
Vancouver-----TEAM-----Ottawa
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Patrick-----Point-----Merrill
Cook-----Coverpoint-----Ross
Taylor-----RW-----Broadbent
Mackay-----Centre-----Duford
Nighbor-----LW-----Gerard
Frank Nighbor again demonstrated the fact that he is about the best all-around hockey player in the business.He had speed to burn last night and he seldom allowed a man to get by him.His back checking was a marvel and he swiped the rubber with his low, sweeping hook on numerous occasions.
"Cyclone" Taylor played a grand game, his great speed and wonderful stick-handling showing to still greater advantage at the six-man game.
Game 3: Vancouver Daily World & Ottawa Citizen, 27 Mar 1915 (12-3 Win)
Lineups
Vancouver-----TEAM-----Ottawa
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Patrick-----Point-----Merrill
Cook-----Coverpoint-----Ross
Taylor-----Rover-----Gerard
Mackay-----Centre-----Darragh
Nighbor-----RW-----Broadbent
Stanley-----LW-----Graham
Vancouver Daily World
Frank Nighbor, the fastest all-around hockey player in the game today, was in the limelight all the time.His work last night was a marvel.Time and time again he would steal the puck from an opposing forward and start the forward line bustling towards Benedict.He was credited with two fine goals and assisted in the scoring four times, so that he was practically responsible for half of the goals made by his team.Frank is still one of the young players, and has ten years of good hockey in him.
Taylor was also in brilliant form and toyed with his opponents to the delight of the crowd.He was a marked man and closely checked as usual, but was too fast for his opponents.His brilliant rushes down the ice were countless and he scored twice and assisted in notching up another.
Ottawa Citizen (Special to The Citizen)
Frank Patrick and his teammates played magnificient hockey.Nighbor and Stanley were the stars with Lehman as reliable as ever.Taylor was held down, but the Ottawas paid too much attention to him and let others run loose.He took things leisurely and had the honor of scoring the last goal.Nighbor, Stanley and McKay were brilliant at all times.
VANCOUVER WINS THE STANLEY CUP!
Great summary
For reference Nighbor is 22 years old and Taylor is 30 in this season
Weren't the results lost? Or you're just going by memory?
Memory...
Though I have some of the results of the old projects available in old excel files that I really need to dig up. We were storing ALL of them in a yahoo! account (lol we're old), but I doubt anyone has been opening that account often enough to keep it from being closed.
Sakic's longevity must be considered much better than Trottier's, no?... He scored 100 pts as a 37-year old and finished 6th in points. His ten top 10 seasons in points took place between 89/90-06/07 whilst Trottier's six top 10 seasons in points all took place between 77/78-83/84. Not to say he was washed up after that but I think Sakic held up better for quite a bit longer.
8 playoff OT goals is one of those "cute" stats. It requires so many factors outside of the players control.I personally have Sakic over Trottier and that's before the 8 playoff OT goals, which puts him #1 all time.
8 playoff OT goals is one of those "cute" stats. It requires so many factors outside of the players control.
Also - I would hazard a guess OT was more common in the DPE (with lower scoring overall, ergo fewer events, which increases the likelihood of a tie at the end of regulation) than it would be prior.
Yeah, I think the fact that Taylor was a strong point/cover point (quasi rover) puts him in that poor man's Red Kelly range of 2 position stars. Just worked the opposite of Red, with Taylor's best work coming at C vs D, although he was pretty well regarded as a latter.
TheDevileMadeMe bio said:Instances of physical play
Taylor isn't remembered as a physical player, but here are three different instances of him playing "rough," two of them from earlier in his career when he played coverpoint (defenseman). I don't think these make Taylor particularly physical in an all-time sense, but he is definitely no softy.
Just one game, but it seems Taylor was a difference-maker defensively all game:
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive SearchThe Montreal Gazette Jan 13 said:Taylor, who was on the line the night the team was beaten in Quebec (TDMM - I assume this means at forward), was in Moore's position at cover point, increasing the efficiency of the defence about 50 percent. He was ruled off 4 times in the game, twice for heavy bodychecking and twice for slashing Wanderer forwards over the arms. His play, while on the rough side, was very effective; he was a hard man to get by and towards the end he stirred up the crowd by lightning rushes from end to end of the rink. He scored Ottawa's sixth and seventh goal on such dashes and was also responsible for the twelth, although Phillips landed the disc in the twine.
With Taylor off, the Wanderer forwards found it easier to work in on the Otttawa defence...
Taylor made it 11 to 1 on an end to end run and a pretty shot. Taylor immediately after the face repeated the run and Phillips scored from the rebound of Taylor's shot.
Taylor brought the crowd to their feet by stealing the disc from Hooper at the Ottawa end and going through the whole Wanderer team for Ottawa's sixth goal. Taylor went in and out through Glass and Ross and taking his time picked out the open corner of the net.
Taylor noted as particularly rough, even for the era. Again, just one game:
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive SearchThe Montreal Gazette March 15 1909 said:The trouble came after the referee had been obliged to order off the ice for palpably rough play Taylor, Walsh and Lake, all of the Ottawa team. Taylor had been particularly conspicuous for rough work, and Russell promptly ordered him out of the game for good.
The Calgary Daily Herald - Google News Archive SearchCalgary Daily Herald March 21 1918 said:He supplied the only "rough stuff" of the game when he made a vicious attack with his stick on Meeking as the latter was lying on the ice. The Toronto boy in checking Taylor, fell and his stick caught "Cyclone" on the back. He left the puck and twice hit the fallen player with his stick. Randall went to Meeking's rescue and both he and Taylor exchanged jabs.
The Globe Mar 21 1918 said:Note Taylor is 33, Mackay is 23
Taylor is fast, a beautiful skater and handles the puck fairly well but it is extremely doubtful if he has any more speed than Noble or Cameron. McKay who played on the forward line is a much faster skater, carries the puck better and is much more persistent than "Cyclone"
In fact it was the consensus of the opinion after the game that McKay was much the faster man and more effective than Taylor. Cook and Griffis are both fast men, but the showing of Stanley was very disappointing. He was outclassed at times and resorted to questionable tactics on several occasions.
Taylor Loses His Head
The play on the whole however was fairly clean, on;y one incident marring the game. In the final period Taylor who was ineffective all night was checked by Meeking, the latter falling to the ice after he had blocked the Westerner. Taylor angered at the persistence of Meeking in checking turned raised his stick and struck the (word) player. Randall skated over quickly to intervene and Taylor and he exchanged several punches before they were separated...
Spokane Daily Chronicle - Google News Archive SearchSpokane Daily Chronicle said:"Cyclone" Taylor, the star center of the Vancouver club of the Pacific Coast Hockey association, has been voted the all-around individual championship of the PCHA, for the 1917-18 season, according to an announcement by Frank Patrick, president of the organization.
The official scorers of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland voted on the most valuable player in the league and Taylor was the unanimous choice. "Cyclone" is far ahead of his nearest rival in scoring honors and will probably maintain an edge through the final series next week.
Taylor's defensive play was also exceptionally strong. Last season Frank Foyston of the Seattle club was voted the most valuable individual in the league. Another important point in Taylor's favor was the fact that not once during the season was the star sent from the ice for violation of rules.
The Edmonton Bulletin Jan 23 1918 said:Taylor for the first ten of twelve minutes of the game, gave one of his finest displays in the coast hockey, outplaying the entire Seattle team and having possession of the rubber for about three quarters of the time.
The Edmonton Bulletin Mar 13 1919 said:Vancouver missed Mickey MacKay its star who was crippled in a recent Seattle game. With MacKay out, Cyclone Taylor and his teammates could not stop the peppering Seattle game the Canadian basket. Taylor led his team in a great defensive fight. He had the puck for longer period than any of the visitors and helped the score.
The Edmonton Bulletin Apr 8 1912 said:The Easterners scored three goals in this period and westerns one and with the scored tied in the final the excitement was intense. Shore (cover) was benched for tripping in the thd and Taylor, who took his place was mainly responsible for the victory. He came on the ice in time to stop a dangerous western rush and went right through the opposing defense single handily before passing back to Ross for the leading goal. Right after this he went down again and gave Darragh another chance which was accepted.
http://books.google.com/books?id=geu3FrdUBaYC&pg=PA135&dq=cyclone+taylor&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f7UCUb2KMMm30AGWioGIDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=cyclone taylor&f=falseGreat Centremen: Stars of Hockey's Golden Age by Paul White said:His blazing speed dazzled both players and fans alike, and when he used it to dominate the game, scoring five goals in his very first game in the league, it was reported that the governor general turned to his aide and commented, "They should call that man the Cyclone-his speed blew the other team out of the rink."
The rover's place on the ice wasn't clearly defined, but like a centreman, his responsibilities encompassed essentially the entire sheet of ice. Cyclone Taylor was truly one of the best. In fact, some long time sportswriters consider Taylor to be hockey's first superstar. From 1900 to 1918, he was named to the First All Star Team of every league in which he played.
Vancouver-----TEAM-----Ottawa
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Patrick-----Point-----Merrill
Cook-----Coverpoint-----Ross
Taylor-----Rover-----Gerard
MacKay-----Center-----Duford
Nighbor-----RW-----Broadbent
Stanley-----LW-----Graham
No wonder Ottawa got crushed, look at that depth discrepancy. Angus Duford and Leth Graham against MacKay/Stanley? P-lease.
In my initial top 120 I had Trottier two ahead of Sakic. However, upon further review of their resumes, I may have erred. I think I gave too much credence to Trottier's one Art Ross over Sakic's steadier top 10 finishes. I also always liked Trottier's physical play, but I also liked Sakic's clutch play and coolness under pressure.I personally have Sakic over Trottier and that's before the 8 playoff OT goals, which puts him #1 all time.
8 playoff OT goals is one of those "cute" stats. It requires so many factors outside of the players control.
Also - I would hazard a guess OT was more common in the DPE (with lower scoring overall, ergo fewer events, which increases the likelihood of a tie at the end of regulation) than it would be prior.
No wonder Ottawa got crushed, look at that depth discrepancy. Angus Duford and Leth Graham against MacKay/Stanley? P-lease.
It is one element that can point to clutch players. Being the hero when it counts the most.8 playoff OT goals is one of those "cute" stats. It requires so many factors outside of the players control.
The thing I'll say about Roy's OT record is (while I think it is insanely overrated), the goalie is much more in a position to control the outcome of an OT than a random skater.Yeah. Clutchiness is a great thing - and very valuable trait - but this is still only 8 goals.
Someone has to be #1 all time - i personally never found the OT playoff goal leader thing to be all that significant. It's not a bad thing - i just don't consider it as big a positive as I expect others do/will.
Roy's playoff OT record? Sure - much more than 8 games worth. If you want to talk about Sakic's overall impact in OT playoff games outside of just goals scored? Sure - that might be a very strong point if there's enough data. 8 goals is still 8 goals though.
Only if he lets in a weak goal. Goaltenders are very dependent on the defensive play of their entire team.The thing I'll say about Roy's OT record is (while I think it is insanely overrated), the goalie is much more in a position to control the outcome of an OT than a random skater.
Then compare to the finals in 1921 Game 3
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Cook-----Point-----Gerard
Duncan-----Coverpoint-----Boucher
Mackay-----Rover-----Cleghorn
Taylor-----Center-----Nighbor
Adams -----RW-----Denneny
Harris -----LW-----Darragh
The pendulum had firmly swung the other way, hard
Agreed, it's hardly Sakic's most valuable bullet point on his CV. However, when the voting gets tough, and we get into the minutia (and man, do we ever get into minutia), that is another half point going Sakic's way.Yeah. Clutchiness is a great thing - and very valuable trait - but this is still only 8 goals.
Someone has to be #1 all time - i personally never found the OT playoff goal leader thing to be all that significant. It's not a bad thing - i just don't consider it as big a positive as I expect others do/will.
Sakic is a great playoff performer and has a reputation as such. The 8 OT goals are just incidental. Positive, sure, but if we're talking about the balance of their resumes, it would be like the 43rd tiebreaker.It is one element that can point to clutch players. Being the hero when it counts the most.
And since it's a team game, played against another team, most players usually have to rise to the occasion using the cards dealt to them on any particular shift.
The pendulum had firmly swung the other way, hard
Those were all excellent players on Vancouver though. No dead weight.Then compare to the finals in 1921 Game 3
Lehman-----Goalie-----Benedict
Cook-----Point-----Gerard
Duncan-----Coverpoint-----Boucher
Mackay-----Rover-----Cleghorn
Taylor-----Center-----Nighbor
Adams -----RW-----Denneny
Harris -----LW-----Darragh
The pendulum had firmly swung the other way, hard