Top 100 Forwards in the NHL

[ToDavid]

Matthews last 3 seasons, 21st, 22nd and 28th in ppg and yet he is number 10. What is the reason? Let me guess the Toews argument. He has secret intangibles and he can will the Leafs to victory on it's own? Or because his leadership can make the whole team better?

His secret intangibles are being a top 5 (arguably top 2) goal scorer from the moment he entered the league.

 

[ToDavid]

He must not watch Elias play, and is just basing it on the fact that he's as skinny as a twig. But being huge and laying out massive hits is not the only way to be defensive, because Pettersson is a freakin' takeaway machine. Constantly stealing the puck off opposing players sticks.

He was 147th in takeaways last season.

Defense continues to be the best way to pump up a player without pesky things like facts or evidence.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

You deal with facts yeah but old ones. Mackinnon just developed into one of the best player that is also one fact and recent one. As alot of people here love to say : development isn’t linear. Can Eichel be better than Mack? Yeah maybe but at this point this is just bunch of excuses and pace while Mack is doing the actual production. Yeah his linemates are good but so does alot of these stars, Mcdavid (Draisaitl 105pts) Kane (Debrincat 76pts), Kucherov (Point 92pts), Marner (Tavares 88pts), Barkov (Huberdeau 92pts) but hey I guess the only one overrated there is Mack leeching off Rantanen (87pts). Now that Eichel has Dahlin excuses will have to stop at some point and we should see actual results not called pace, PPG or p/60.

You clearly don’t pay attention, I’ve never once used the p/60 that’s the Matthews camp.

yeah, your right though now that dahlin isn’t ah 18 year old defensemen there will be less of the he’s all alone as far as elite goes, but still he will be a 19 year old Dman. Far cry from a power forward in your wing whos hit over 80 Pts twice in his first three seasons, a guy who lead the league in scoring for multiple months and a guy who since Mackinnon joined up with him had helped double his own production going from 53 pts on a all time awful team to totals like 97 and 99. Yet when eichels on league low offenders and teams he got 57 in 61 and 64 in 67, these aren’t excuses, these are facts. Ps that 57 in 61 is notable seeing as he returned from a sprained ankle was in his second season and STILL managed to outscore Mackinnon who was older and played a full year.

No idea why you started listing tavares and Marner and their pt totals when with each other, when did I ever state that Mackinnon was the only guy with elite help. That poor though proves mine even more showing how Eichel had to do everything. I know you’ve never watched him play more the ten times by the way you talk. I’d actually be surprised if you’ve watched him play 5-6 times. You have no clue how the game Conpletely
Changes every time he goes on the ice. Just like a Mario or a Lindros, not comparing him to them but I’m saying that’s the kind of “whoa” feeling everyone gets when he’s out there. I see shifts of people like Matthews sometimes and you can literally not even know he’s out there. Mackinnon is noticeable the last three years for sure.

I’m not using old stats either, 201 Pts in his last 203 Games the past three years isn’t a old stat when it deals with last year.

Yeah he had 82 points but he was on pace for 89, (pace matters when you play 77 games) and easily could of had ten to fifteen more Pts if his incompetent teammates like Sheary or girgensens at times when on the ice didn’t fan on tap ins.

Anyway point is I don’t rely on old numbers.
I can list about the impressive stats about Eichel from last year whether it’s being fourth in offensive zone possession before Inhury in December, the only player in the top 25 in points this year without another guy in his team to get over 65 Pts. Thats not old is it? Infact before he went down to injury he had more multi point games then any player in the league with 17 in early December not named Mackinnon or Rantanen who play together. In the past teo seasons his primary assist rate is astounding. His transition numbers were better then mcdavid a couple year ago and mcdavid remains the only player to be able to Beat him in speed skating. He was the highest scoring center not named point in he east before going down din December too, so all of these things aren’t relying on old numbers.


I get who Mackinnon is now. But he’s extremely lucky to have the line he’s on too. Eichel is destroying his production at similar ages and I get Mackinnon had a between rookie year by like 8 points. Congrats, Eichel had a higher career points per game with worse circumstances.

There is no excuses, there’s only “he has bad circumstances” and he only played 61 or 67 games. Both those things are absolutely true. You can’t score in games you don’t play. And I’m fine with his elite production as it is anyhow so yeah even with dahlin there will be no excuses any time in the future...

 

[Spilot23]

You clearly don’t pay attention, I’ve never once used the p/60 that’s the Matthews camp.

yeah, your right though now that dahlin isn’t ah 18 year old defensemen there will be less of the he’s all alone as far as elite goes, but still he will be a 19 year old Dman. Far cry from a power forward in your wing whos hit over 80 Pts twice in his first three seasons, a guy who lead the league in scoring for multiple months and a guy who since Mackinnon joined up with him had helped double his own production going from 53 pts on a all time awful team to totals like 97 and 99. Yet when eichels on league low offenders and teams he got 57 in 61 and 64 in 67, these aren’t excuses, these are facts. Ps that 57 in 61 is notable seeing as he returned from a sprained ankle was in his second season and STILL managed to outscore Mackinnon who was older and played a full year.

No idea why you started listing tavares and Marner and their pt totals when with each other, when did I ever state that Mackinnon was the only guy with elite help. That poor though proves mine even more showing how Eichel had to do everything. I know you’ve never watched him play more the ten times by the way you talk. I’d actually be surprised if you’ve watched him play 5-6 times. You have no clue how the game Conpletely
Changes every time he goes on the ice. Just like a Mario or a Lindros, not comparing him to them but I’m saying that’s the kind of “whoa” feeling everyone gets when he’s out there. I see shifts of people like Matthews sometimes and you can literally not even know he’s out there. Mackinnon is noticeable the last three years for sure.

I’m not using old stats either, 201 Pts in his last 203 Games the past three years isn’t a old stat when it deals with last year.

Yeah he had 82 points but he was on pace for 89, (pace matters when you play 77 games) and easily could of had ten to fifteen more Pts if his incompetent teammates like Sheary or girgensens at times when on the ice didn’t fan on tap ins.

Anyway point is I don’t rely on old numbers.
I can list about the impressive stats about Eichel from last year whether it’s being fourth in offensive zone possession before Inhury in December, the only player in the top 25 in points this year without another guy in his team to get over 65 Pts. Thats not old is it? Infact before he went down to injury he had more multi point games then any player in the league with 17 in early December not named Mackinnon or Rantanen who play together. In the past teo seasons his primary assist rate is astounding. His transition numbers were better then mcdavid a couple year ago and mcdavid remains the only player to be able to Beat him in speed skating. He was the highest scoring center not named point in he east before going down din December too, so all of these things aren’t relying on old numbers.


I get who Mackinnon is now. But he’s extremely lucky to have the line he’s on too. Eichel is destroying his production at similar ages and I get Mackinnon had a between rookie year by like 8 points. Congrats, Eichel had a higher career points per game with worse circumstances.

There is no excuses, there’s only “he has bad circumstances” and he only played 61 or 67 games. Both those things are absolutely true. You can’t score in games you don’t play. And I’m fine with his elite production as it is anyhow so yeah even with dahlin there will be no excuses any time in the future...

Anyway there's no point arguing with you. It always come down to Rantanen being stapled to Mack and Eichel's linemates. I guess we will have to wait til Eichel gets a decent team to gauge Eichel's real value since that's always come to that. Also if you think Mack got better because of Rantanen then you too you've never watched him enough the seasons before. Just when Eichel outproduced him when he missed two months Mackinnon was dealing with a thumb injury through the season and it was clearly showing with his wrister which is his weapon. Anyway as of now basically everyone in the hockey atmosphere agrees that Mack is the better player right now it's up to Eichel to close the gap or be better than him. Don't know how many years it will take for Buffalo to get someone as good as Rantanen stapled to Eichel but I guess that is what it will take to somehow compare them according to you.

 

[flying v 604]

Just in terms of the Vancouver players I can’t put Boeser over Horvat. Whether that means Brock is too high, or Bo too low?

Bo doesn't get enough credit. Has improved points and defense every year, put up over 60 last season with a host of revovlving wingers, while taking the most faceoffs in the league. I think he explodes this season with the additions in the top 6 and hopefully stable wingers all year. Hell of a contract plus a leader on and off the ice. Hope they give him the C this year.

 

[flying v 604]

Top 5 goals. 1 behind 3rd playing 30 less
Games than the top 5.

If we go by goals per game. He is 2nd in the league. .02 gpg. Behind winger ovechkin

C who scores like ovy is a top 10 player.

Think of how good you think Peterson is.......

Then make him much better and a 40 goal scorer as a rookie.

Petey makes his wingers better, Am doesn't. A centre is supposed to be both a goal scorer and playmaker, look at all the top centres in the last 30 years, most did both. Petey actually goes into the hard areas and is very good away from the puck. AM has been called out by many for ot doing either very well.

 

[flying v 604]

Or you can watch them play the game and clearly see McDavid is better. 4 more points for Kucherov but 31 more PP points on a stacked unit. Extend it to 3 years and McDavid has 11 more points with Kucherov having 36 more PP points.

McDavid also dominates primary points.

I friggen hate the soilers. But CM is by far the best player in hockey. He is utterly dominant. If he played for TB, the amount of points he would put up would be increased prolly by about 25-30 easy. He plays for a garbage team, with mostly garbage players, and still single handedly takes over games.

 

[joe dirte]

Petey makes his wingers better, Am doesn't. A centre is supposed to be both a goal scorer and playmaker, look at all the top centres in the last 30 years, most did both. Petey actually goes into the hard areas and is very good away from the puck. AM has been called out by many for ot doing either very well.

Matthews is far far better than petterson.

 

[DFF]

Matthews is far far better than petterson.

Not true

 

[joe dirte]

Not true

An understatement if anything.

 

[DFF]

An understatement if anything.

It's more of pulling Matthews down to Peterson level than anything. Matthews is way overrated in the op ranking

 

[Saltcreek]

It's more of pulling Matthews down to Peterson level than anything. Matthews is way overrated in the op ranking

It is hard to take anything you say seriously when you put a rookie who had an unsustainable shooting % AND also significantly dropped off over the second half of the season above Matthews. Pettersson has a lot of potential but lets be a bit realistic.

 

[DFF]

It is hard to take anything you say seriously when you put a rookie who had an unsustainable shooting % AND also significantly dropped off over the second half of the season above Matthews. Pettersson has a lot of potential but lets be a bit realistic.

Sure but it's equally hard to put a guy who never put more than 70s pts in the top 10..... without taking his potential into account but let's be realistic

 

[Saltcreek]

Sure but it's equally hard to put a guy who never put more than 70s pts in the top 10..... without taking his potential into account but let's be realistic

I agree, Matthews is not top 10 but I think he will get there if he can stay healthy, however he is still ahead of Pettersson at this time.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

I’m not sure how Matthews cracks the top 10 if you ignore potential. He’s a PPG type player right now. That’s not top 10 imo. If you take into account potential then I can see it.
For example, how is he ahead of Drai and Tavares who are the two guys right after him on the list. To me it looks like you’re taking into account potential.

How about. What have you done for me lately. That's a good enough reason why. Also look at lifetime +\-

 

[Blueboy]

Not a bad list.

Not sure how Crosby over Kucherov could possibly be justified.

7 game series in the playoffs, choice of adding Crosby or Kucherov, who’s your choice?

I think a lot of people would choose Crosby (I’m one of them) because I value his position, experience and all around ability more than Kuch.

Not a bad list, not the perfect list. Good job putting it together.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

Nice list, well done. Impossible to make everyone happy. I like Mantha a lot, very good player by the way. As for Austin Mathews, he is easily a top ten player. His TOI is probably the lowest of everyone on this top 100 list. He is Toronto's #1 Center, yet the guy they have centering the second line plays more minutes.

 

[JenniferH]

You obviously put a lot of time and effort into this and I think that's awesome. I'm not going to argue with your choices overall, these are your opinions and that's great. I do have one thing to say though...

Nicklas Bäckström not even in the top 20? Man, talk about a player that is underrated. Massively so. That is one that I do mightily disagree with.

 

[Ctrain2k]

70 points...Matthews played with 40 point guys.

Yea Ovies linemates are trash.

Is that supposed to be impressive? Nuge got 70 with 20 points linemates ffs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is that supposed to be impressive? Nuge got 70 with 20 points linemates ffs.

It's also funny how those players become "trash" when the topic is Matthews, but if the discussion is "which team has the best forward depth", those same players (Kapanen, Johnsson, etc.) suddenly become much more valuable.

 

[Ctrain2k]

It's also funny how those players become "trash" when the topic is Matthews, but if the discussion is "which team has the best forward depth", those same players (Kapanen, Johnsson, etc.) suddenly become much more valuable.

Yeah, he plays with 2nd line wingers on the 2nd line and it’s used as praise for carrying inferior players.

 

[Yackiberg8]

Is that supposed to be impressive? Nuge got 70 with 20 points linemates ffs.

Maybe try looking into the context of the conversation before replying with nonsense.

 

[Yackiberg8]

It's also funny how those players become "trash" when the topic is Matthews, but if the discussion is "which team has the best forward depth", those same players (Kapanen, Johnsson, etc.) suddenly become much more valuable.

Couldn’t me more wrong. There is an arrow in the posts where you can go back to read the conversation, people need to do that more before commenting.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Couldn’t me more wrong. There is an arrow in the posts where you can go back to read the conversation, people need to do that more before commenting.

I was just making a general statement about how these secondary wingers seem to range from "not much to work with" to "provide tremendous depth" depending on what the actual discussion is about.

I didn't quote your post, so I don't need to know what the specific context is in this particular case. It's just something I've noticed (and not even just with regards to the Leafs) on HF where fanbases will argue different values of certain players depending on whether or not it hurts or helps their argument.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Since you cannot prove that Matthews would play like Drai can with McDavid I will go on to say that Matthews is being over rated in this list.

Lemme just try and get this straight Oiler fans...

Linemates don't matter when...Drai plays with McDavid, Matthews plays with inferior players
Linemates matter when...Drai plays on his own line with inferior players, discussing Kucherov/McDavid

Obviously an actual evaluation on Drai lies somewhere between how he plays with McDavid and how he plays on his own. He's a fantastic elite player but he's not better than Matthews, full stop. I honestly am not sure if deep down you earnestly believe he is.