Top 10 Dman in order out of BUF, OTT, and DET altogether?

[redwings86]

Wat

Petry have in earlier in the regular season done validated seasons, but 23 and 24 he made a worse impression of 20+ with points.

Jokiharju was the same level with Petry last season with 20 points.

 

[Boud]

1. Dahlin
2. Sanderson
3. Seider
4. Chabot
5. Power
6. Zub
7. Samuelsson
8. Jensen
9. Byram
10. Maatta (Probably would've been Walman?)

Arguably the last 4 could be interchanged. Samuelsson to be is the steadiest player of the bunch. He brings the same every night. Jensen is getting a bit older but plays a reliable game and jumps in the offense. Byram has good upside but has been playing with too much inconsistency to be higher IMO.

Last one I would guess Maatta is the best. Edvinsson hasn't played enough yet. Maatta is steady eddy. I think I would've picked Walman here.

 

[redwings86]

8. Edvinsson

Lot mediocre.

 

[Boud]

Lot mediocre.

I changed it actually because he hasn't played enough but he played well when he was in the lineup.

 

[redwings86]

I changed it actually because he hasn't played enough but he played well when he was in the lineup.

More right now.

 

[HockeyWooot]

1. Dahlin
2. Seider

3. Chabot
4. Sanderson
5. Byram

6. Zub
7. Power
8. Samuelsson

9. Edvinsson
10. Jensen

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

1. Dahlin
2. Seider

3. Chabot
4. Sanderson
5. Byram

6. Zub
7. Power
8. Samuelsson

9. Edvinsson
10. Jensen

Chabot isn't above Sanderson not even remotely close. Seider did have ridiculously difficult matchups last season yes, and his partner wasn't good. However, he also did awful in said matchups. Sanderson had hard matchups even if not as hard and did have a good partner, but he absolutely excelled in them, so I have Sanderson above Seider. Byram isn't above Power. Byram is really not a good Dman.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Chiarot played 20 on a not good Wings team. I said on a good team he wouldn't play 20. Chiarot provides zero offence as well, so not sure what you are on about. Samuelsson is young and can improve, while Chiarot is already over-exposed and on the downturn.

Chiarot is 88th in scoring by d-men the last 3 years. 57th in goals.

Samuelsson is 193rd in total points, 241st in goals.

Among d-men with 100+GP the last 3 seasons, Samuelsson is 208th out of 213 players in goals scored. 188th in points. Literally less than 20 d-men in the entire NHL provide less offense.

If you set the games played at 130+, the only d-men in the NHL who scored less goals the last 3 seasons were Nemeth and Benning. Nemeth played in Switzerland last season!

Your definition of "zero offense" needs some serious adjustment if you think Chiarot and Samuelsson are the same.

Tbh I wasn't even so much going for a Chiarot vs. Samuelsson argument. I just think Edvinsson can be argued to be on the same level as Samuelsson (when factoring in Edvinsson's much superior talent), and Chiarot can be argued on the same level as Jensen. I don't see a tier difference there. Especially considering Jensen is just as old and arguably more on the downturn than Chiarot (Chiarot had a good season, Jensen had a brutal one).

Based on this thread though, Samuelsson might be one of the more overrated d-men in the league right now.

 

[biturbo19]

1. Dahlin.
2. Seider.
3. Power.
4. Sanderson.
5. Zub.
6. Byram (but it hardly counts because he's always injured).
7. Chabot.
8. Samuelsson.
9. Chiarot.
10. Jensen i guess? Or throw up a hail mary on Edvinsson?



Jeepers though. Beyond the first handful of absolute studs...it's not really much of a secret why these are teams that struggle to get over that playoff hump.

 

[Oddbob]

Chiarot is 88th in scoring by d-men the last 3 years. 57th in goals.

Samuelsson is 193rd in total points, 241st in goals.

Among d-men with 100+GP the last 3 seasons, Samuelsson is 208th out of 213 players in goals scored. 188th in points. Literally less than 20 d-men in the entire NHL provide less offense.

If you set the games played at 130+, the only d-men in the NHL who scored less goals the last 3 seasons were Nemeth and Benning. Nemeth played in Switzerland last season!

Your definition of "zero offense" needs some serious adjustment if you think Chiarot and Samuelsson are the same.

Tbh I wasn't even so much going for a Chiarot vs. Samuelsson argument. I just think Edvinsson can be argued to be on the same level as Samuelsson (when factoring in Edvinsson's much superior talent), and Chiarot can be argued on the same level as Jensen. I don't see a tier difference there. Especially considering Jensen is just as old and arguably more on the downturn than Chiarot (Chiarot had a good season, Jensen had a brutal one).

Based on this thread though, Samuelsson might be one of the more overrated d-men in the league right now.

Chiarot is a 20 pt dman and you are acting like he is good offensively or something. Samuelsson to me is much better defensively which more than makes up for the so called offence that Chiarot provides. Also, not sure why you are bringing up offence when Samuelsson is clearly a defensive defender more in the Slavvin type of player.

Ed isn't better right now simply cause he has barely played. Hopefully he will be, but he can't be put ahead of a guy with 150 GP when Ed has played 25 and is -7 and very unproven right now. Even this year he only played 18 mins a game when up and he wasn't awesome or anything. He was solid I think is a fair description of what he did last season in Detroit.

 

[Oddbob]

Chabot isn't above Sanderson not even remotely close. Seider did have ridiculously difficult matchups last season yes, and his partner wasn't good. However, he also did awful in said matchups. Sanderson had hard matchups even if not as hard and did have a good partner, but he absolutely excelled in them, so I have Sanderson above Seider. Byram isn't above Power. Byram is really not a good Dman.

Seider was far from awful in those matchups. It was his worst season, but even still he was darn good most of the season.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Chiarot is a 20 pt dman and you are acting like he is good offensively or something. Samuelsson to me is much better defensively which more than makes up for the so called offence that Chiarot provides.

Moving goalposts much? There's room in between "zero offense" and "good offensively".

But yes, I do think scoring 5+ goals per season or 0-1 goals per season is a meaningful difference.

Again, I'd probably rather put it as an Edvinsson vs. Samuelsson and Chiarot vs. Jensen discussion, but either way I think you're overrating Samuelsson's defense. Especially when that's literally all he brings. I wouldn't be surprised if Edvinsson can be ~60% of Samuelsson defensively and ~200% of Samuelsson offensively.

Here are some comments on Samuelsson from the Sabres board btw, sure sounds like he's an incredible player:

The guy has one more year to show he is worth this contract.

Only would cost the Sabres 715k for 10 years to get out of the dog crap contract.

Samuelson is an average bottom pair guy who is overpaid. When healthy, which isn’t often, he brings no offense and the same defense as Ryjo.

No worries KA signed him to a 7 year deal despite never scoring an NHL goal.

It was a dumb contract.

I'm not happy he's injured but I'm glad there's a possible explanation for his poor form.

I view him as a 3rd pair guy.

 

[CowbellConray]

Chiarot is 88th in scoring by d-men the last 3 years. 57th in goals.

Samuelsson is 193rd in total points, 241st in goals.

Among d-men with 100+GP the last 3 seasons, Samuelsson is 208th out of 213 players in goals scored. 188th in points. Literally less than 20 d-men in the entire NHL provide less offense.

If you set the games played at 130+, the only d-men in the NHL who scored less goals the last 3 seasons were Nemeth and Benning. Nemeth played in Switzerland last season!

Your definition of "zero offense" needs some serious adjustment if you think Chiarot and Samuelsson are the same.

Tbh I wasn't even so much going for a Chiarot vs. Samuelsson argument. I just think Edvinsson can be argued to be on the same level as Samuelsson (when factoring in Edvinsson's much superior talent), and Chiarot can be argued on the same level as Jensen. I don't see a tier difference there. Especially considering Jensen is just as old and arguably more on the downturn than Chiarot (Chiarot had a good season, Jensen had a brutal one).

Based on this thread though, Samuelsson might be one of the more overrated d-men in the league right now.

1) You are taking stats of 150+ games played, when Matthias has played EXACTLY 150 games in his NHL career. Of course he will be towards the bottom of that pile, he gets 38% zone start in the offensive zone, and isn't the transition puck carrier of his pairing. Chariot over the past three seasons played 227 games, with 65 points, or roughly .29 ppg. Matthias has 150 games with 29 points, .19 PPG. That's not some extreme difference, especially when you consider that Chariot in the same period was a -49 over the past 3 seasons. Three seasons agoChariot was fed 23 minutes a night on a terrible Montreal team so he could have 18 points in 54 games, and then was traded to Florida where he was given 50% o-zone starts to put up 8 in 20. Remove that year, and with Detroit he is a small .07 better in PPG over the past two years: .25 to .18
2) Chariot has a -11 Corsi and -11 Fenwick over the past two season, worse than Matthias with a -10 and -9 respectively. He is a worse defender
3) Chariot is 33 and nearing his decline, where Matthias is coming into his prime at 24
4) The Sabres fans you picked anecdotal messages from are usually quite down on the team and organization during the season. I'm sure you can go find positive posts about players to dismiss this point, but Sabres fans are not usually fans of their team on our forum. We are quite negative frequently. Not shocking there are negative statements about Mattias. I'm sure I could find them for Chariot too.

All in all, there really isn't much separating the two players, other than +- (which is a whatever stat IMO) and age. Not shocking people like the idea of a 24 year old defensemen over a 33 year old.

 

[NyQuil]

Jeepers though. Beyond the first handful of absolute studs...it's not really much of a secret why these are teams that struggle to get over that playoff hump.

There’s still a bit of a chicken and egg thing when it comes to the goaltending on those teams over the last few years.

 

[Oddbob]

Moving goalposts much? There's room in between "zero offense" and "good offensively".

But yes, I do think scoring 5+ goals per season or 0-1 goals per season is a meaningful difference.

Again, I'd probably rather put it as an Edvinsson vs. Samuelsson and Chiarot vs. Jensen discussion, but either way I think you're overrating Samuelsson's defense. Especially when that's literally all he brings. I wouldn't be surprised if Edvinsson can be ~60% of Samuelsson defensively and ~200% of Samuelsson offensively.

Here are some comments on Samuelsson from the Sabres board btw, sure sounds like he's an incredible player:

Why do I care what random Sabres fans think? Fans have all kinds of opinions, like on our board where Dylan Larkin isn't a 1st line center somehow to quite a few. 5 goals isn't that meaningful if you are on the ice for more than that against.

 

[Chainshot]

Moving goalposts much? There's room in between "zero offense" and "good offensively".

But yes, I do think scoring 5+ goals per season or 0-1 goals per season is a meaningful difference.

Again, I'd probably rather put it as an Edvinsson vs. Samuelsson and Chiarot vs. Jensen discussion, but either way I think you're overrating Samuelsson's defense. Especially when that's literally all he brings. I wouldn't be surprised if Edvinsson can be ~60% of Samuelsson defensively and ~200% of Samuelsson offensively.

Here are some comments on Samuelsson from the Sabres board btw, sure sounds like he's an incredible player:

Glad you mined out a bunch of comments from the most negative of negative nancies.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Moving goalposts much? There's room in between "zero offense" and "good offensively".

But yes, I do think scoring 5+ goals per season or 0-1 goals per season is a meaningful difference.

Again, I'd probably rather put it as an Edvinsson vs. Samuelsson and Chiarot vs. Jensen discussion, but either way I think you're overrating Samuelsson's defense. Especially when that's literally all he brings. I wouldn't be surprised if Edvinsson can be ~60% of Samuelsson defensively and ~200% of Samuelsson offensively.

Here are some comments on Samuelsson from the Sabres board btw, sure sounds like he's an incredible player:

Just by quickly scanning the thread you cherry picked from - seems like the general consensus was "playing injured and that's likely why he was terrible this year"

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

1. Dahlin.
2. Seider.
3. Power.
4. Sanderson.
5. Zub.
6. Byram (but it hardly counts because he's always injured).
7. Chabot.
8. Samuelsson.
9. Chiarot.
10. Jensen i guess? Or throw up a hail mary on Edvinsson?



Jeepers though. Beyond the first handful of absolute studs...it's not really much of a secret why these are teams that struggle to get over that playoff hump.

There’s still a bit of a chicken and egg thing when it comes to the goaltending on those teams over the last few years.

Sabres actually got top 10 goaltending last season. If they didn't, they'd have been one of the bottom teams easily.

 

[Bouboumaster]

1- Lane Hutson

Deal with it

 

[Golden_Jet]

1- Lane Hutson

Deal with it

Nothing to do with thread , and no lol

 

[HaNotsri]

Moving goalposts much? There's room in between "zero offense" and "good offensively".

But yes, I do think scoring 5+ goals per season or 0-1 goals per season is a meaningful difference.

Again, I'd probably rather put it as an Edvinsson vs. Samuelsson and Chiarot vs. Jensen discussion, but either way I think you're overrating Samuelsson's defense. Especially when that's literally all he brings. I wouldn't be surprised if Edvinsson can be ~60% of Samuelsson defensively and ~200% of Samuelsson offensively.

Here are some comments on Samuelsson from the Sabres board btw, sure sounds like he's an incredible player:

So you are taking a random quote from me about his form when he was playing with multiple injuries as some sort of proof? So dumb.
The 22/23 season Samuelsson was the most important player behind Dahlin and Thompson. The way he plays he'll always miss a lot of games and you can absolutely hold that against him but poor form when playing with injuries is to be expected.

 

[Akrapovince]

1. Dahlin
2. Seider
3. Sanderson

That has to be a lock, right?

 

[norrisnick]

1. Dahlin
2. Seider
3. Sanderson

That has to be a lock, right?

For the foreseeable future. It would take quite a bit to get someone to fall out of or someone to jump into the top 3.

 

[Akrapovince]

For the foreseeable future. It would take quite a bit to get someone to fall out of or someone to jump into the top 3.

I could see one of Edvinsson or Power making their way in when it’s all said and done. Or atleast turning it into a 3-5 interchangeable situation.

 

[norrisnick]

I could see one of Edvinsson or Power making their way in when it’s all said and done. Or atleast turning it into a 3-5 interchangeable situation.

Yeah, IMO those are the only two with enough juice that could be in the conversation for the next 2-3 years. But it would also be hard for either since they have a stud #1 on their own team ahead of them. Dahlin and Seider stepped into a void. Edvinsson and Power would have to unseat someone. That's trickier.