Top 10 defensemen

[Galactico]

There is not a single GM in the league that would take Hugues over Makar.

 

[Regal]

Why is he their 5th or 6th option to defend leads in the final few minutes of games though? Trying to save him for the next game?

I’ve credited the guy for so many things he does well but people making excuses for him not being used in defensive situations while the game is on the line is hilarious.

If Hughes was one of Vancouver’s best defenders they’d play him in those minutes when it matters. They wouldn’t try to save his body for future games lol. They’d try to close out the game at hand and get the 2 points this team desperately needs. Rick Tocchet isn’t flirting with blowing leads to save Hughes body for more 5v5 play a few days later LOL. Hes simply picking the better defenders for those situations.

These arguments are wild lol.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

[Breakers]

There is not a single GM in the league that would take Hugues over Makar.

Hugues

He doesn’t show up on hockey DB

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Natural Statrick

Juulsen is a second behind him total but has played far fewer games. Hughes appears to be 5th in line.

 

[Mike C]

whomever has the mostest points is betters at defending

That's a fallacy. Some guys you don't want on the ice in late game lead protection or penalty kill situations no matter how many point they score

Noah Dobson IMMEDIATELY leaps to mind

 

[wasup]

Makar was a bottom 8% PKer last season. Just because he gets those minutes doesn't mean he's good at it.

Maybe just maybe goaltending has something to do with this .

 

[Rowlet]

Maybe just maybe goaltending has something to do with this .

It doesn't, the metrics track shots and attempts, as well as their danger level, not goal against.

The Avs also had the 12th best PK, while Makar was bottom 8%, so clearly it's not a team or goalie issue.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Tocchet doesn't want Hughes laying down in front of pucks when you can have Myers or Juulsen do it.

The Canucks are a lottery team when Hugues isn't on the ice, they absolutely can't risk him getting injured diving in front of pucks.

You do some serious mental gymnastics in coming to your conclusions.

 

[Rowlet]

You do some serious mental gymnastics in coming to your conclusions.

Less mental gymnastics than people trying to use 4v5 time to say that Hughes is bad defensively.

 

[kanucks25]

You do some serious mental gymnastics in coming to your conclusions.

If you think "not putting your best player in positions to potentially get injured in random regular season games" is mental gymnastics than I think that's a you problem.

It's not a very complicated or layered concept.

 

[kanucks25]

Natural Statrick

View attachment 949259


Juulsen is a second behind him total but has played far fewer games. Hughes appears to be 5th in line.

Soucy is 6'5 210
Myers is 6'8 230

I'm sure, based on the above info, you can figure out why they'd be first out in that specific situation.

Also, 8-9 minutes vs. 6 minutes. And Hronek has a whole 3 seconds over Hughes. OMG what incredibly stark differences [sarcasm].

 

[Regal]

Natural Statrick

View attachment 949259


Juulsen is a second behind him total but has played far fewer games. Hughes appears to be 5th in line.

I thought maybe there was actually something about defending leads late other than just empty net time. That’s a tiny sample to draw conclusions out of. Hughes plays a ton of minutes when they sit on leads 5v5. Not that strange that he wouldn’t be out there as often as Soucy-Myers when they’re essentially on a PK and blocking shots. It’s also one of those things that’s going to have a lot of variance. If Soucy/Myers is out there when the team pulls the goalie and they get hemmed in their end, the Canucks aren’t going to get Hughes on the ice. It’s a pretty big stretch to criticize him for that.

The Avs also seem to have a fundamental difference in strategy with the empty net, which is why their stars have racked up so many points against them. MacKinnon and Rantanen have also played a ton in those minutes, whereas the Canucks highest minute forwards are Garland, Blueger and Suter.

 

[Derailed75]

Without looking at others posts first:



HM
Slavin for actual defense

This is the thing that really confuses newcomers to hockey. So there's an award given annually to the player with the most goals, most points (IE the best offensive players) there's an award for the forward that plays the best defensive game in the league, an award for the best defensemen (that really goes to the defensemen that is the best at offense) but no award for the best defensemen that's actually good at, you know playing defense?

 

[Revansky]

If I had to make tiers.

Makar
Q.Hughes

Fox
Werenski
Dahlin
Heiskanen

Morissey
Hedman
Seider
Faber

HM : Josi, Weegar, Mcavoy

Maybe Josi and Mcavoy should be higher though as normally their top 10 D, maybe just a slow start affected by team performance.

 

[M2Beezy]

As an objective and neutral observer:

Fox
Heiskanen
Werenski
Hedman
Morrissey
Carlson
Dahlin
Seider
Chabot
Hronek

HM: Slavin, Josi, Sanderson, McAvoy, Hamilton

 

[benfranklin]

The amount of people who reach so fr to dunk on Makar makes me smile. Haters gon hate.

 

[BKarchitect]

If I had to make tiers.

Makar
Q.Hughes

Fox
Werenski
Dahlin
Heiskanen

Morissey
Hedman
Seider
Faber

HM : Josi, Weegar, Mcavoy

Maybe Josi and Mcavoy should be higher though as normally their top 10 D, maybe just a slow start affected by team performance.

Looks pretty solid.

- I think Morrissey has done everything to be in tier two though.

- Slavin is definitely still top 10ish for me…I know his usage isn’t what it is for some guys but Carolina runs a deep and evenly distributed blueline, and I still take Slavin defending a lead against a superstar forward line-up over everybody in the league.

- And I think the way he has rebounded this year, Sergachev needs a lot more love on folks lists, at least as an HM (top 15ish) range.

 

[Revansky]

Looks pretty solid.

- I think Morrissey has done everything to be in tier two though.

- Slavin is definitely still top 10ish for me…I know his usage isn’t what it is for some guys but Carolina runs a deep and evenly distributed blueline, and I still take Slavin defending a lead against a superstar forward line-up over everybody in the league.

- And I think the way he has rebounded this year, Sergachev needs a lot more love on folks lists, at least as an HM (top 15ish) range.

Great points. Slavin is clearly a top 3 d defensively. It's fair tk argue he should be in the top 10. I have him around 14-15.

Haven't seen a lot of Sergachev this year. Was always a fan, is he playing better defensively this year ?

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

I think anyone who would take McAvoy over Slavin does not watch either player very often. That is about the only strong opinion I have on top defensemen based on what I've seen in this thread.

 

[norrisnick]

Less mental gymnastics than people trying to use 4v5 time to say that Hughes is bad defensively.

Claim load management or whatever. Most good coaches play their best defenders in the situations that require the most defending. The PK being one of those situations. An ES shift against the bottom half of the opponent's lineup isn't nearly as important or impactful to the outcome of a game as a key PK.

 

[BKarchitect]

Great points. Slavin is clearly a top 3 d defensively. It's fair tk argue he should be in the top 10. I have him around 14-15.

Haven't seen a lot of Sergachev this year. Was always a fan, is he playing better defensively this year ?

He’s been good and heavily relied upon when I’ve seen Utah games, even on the PK. Looks more like 22-23 Sergachev where I really felt he might’ve been on the verge of getting the torch passed from Hedman. But he flatlined badly last season. But I think being counted on to be “the man” has really let him flourish.

Even if he is inherently an OFD who will take some risks and occasionally make mistakes, I think his physicality and all-situation usage sets him apart from the Bouchard’s and Dobson’s of the world. Pacing for 20 goals and 65 points while playing #1 PP and #1 PK units and a whopping 26 minutes a game while already tallying 3 GWG - he’s definitely a top 10 defenseman performance-wise so far this year IMO. Putting up back-to-back elite seasons might be needed to convince folks to really trust him as a top 10-ish guy though.

 

[voyageur]

For me it would be

1. Makar
2. Hughes
3. Morrissey (because he plays in Winnipeg and isn't in net, maybe overlooked, but he's a key reason why your teams are losing to Winnipeg)
4. Werenski
5. Ekholm (underrated because he doesn't get top PP, but an absolute force on defense)
6. Hedman
7. Sergachev
8. Carlson
9. Mc Avoy
10. Fox

Sanderson is making a bid too of late, since his snub. Hard to keep the impact of Bouchard off the list, but maybe just the right fit for the team in front of him.

 

[Rowlet]

Claim load management or whatever. Most good coaches play their best defenders in the situations that require the most defending. The PK being one of those situations. An ES shift against the bottom half of the opponent's lineup isn't nearly as important or impactful to the outcome of a game as a key PK.

If you want to ignore that Hughes is the best player in the league at getting the puck out of his own end, and into fhe offensive end because Tocchet doesn't play him on the PK, then there isn't much else to say.