Top 10 defensemen

[Cousin Eddie]

Except that you can when everything else you do is done at such a high level it outweighs the negative.

Ok that’s fair. But Makar for example leads his team in those shutdown minutes. Similar with Heiskanen.

Are you suggesting that Quinn Hughes does everything else so much better than Cale Makar that it makes up for the fact that Hughes is stapled to the bench in those defensive situations while Makar and other similar defenseman are depended on and excel in those defensive situations?

 

[Grifter3511]

Ok that’s fair. But Makar for example leads his team in those shutdown minutes. Similar with Heiskanen.

Are you suggesting that Quinn Hughes does everything else so much better than Cale Makar that it makes up for the fact that Hughes is stapled to the bench in those defensive situations while Makar and other similar defenseman are depended on and excel in those defensive situations?

Over his whole career? No, absolutely not. But this season alone i honestly think Hughes should be getting serious Hart consideration. Outside of McDavid, I can't think of another player who I see control and impact the play as drastically as he does. Granted, there are a ton of teams i don't watch outside of hilights so I only have statistics and hearsay to go off of.

 

[Svencouver]

"Player A doesnt PK and thats why hes bad defensively" is seriously one of the worst and most outdated memes on here and I'm counting down the days until it dies forever

 

[Rowlet]

Ok that’s fair. But Makar for example leads his team in those shutdown minutes. Similar with Heiskanen.

Are you suggesting that Quinn Hughes does everything else so much better than Cale Makar that it makes up for the fact that Hughes is stapled to the bench in those defensive situations while Makar and other similar defenseman are depended on and excel in those defensive situations?

Makar was a bottom 8% PKer last season. Just because he gets those minutes doesn't mean he's good at it.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Carlson won’t get the love but he has been a monster this season. I doubt there are 10 guys that have been better than him this year.

 

[dgibb10]

Get that modern thinking out of here! We're only doing 2009 levels of analysis.

Quinn Hughes short and no hit so how possibly good at defense?

 

[Idiot Stick]

Mostest?

Betterest’s*

 

[dirtydanglez]

makar

hughes
josi
fox

werenski
morrissey
heiskanen
dahlin
hedman
theodore

 

[SillyRabbit]

Predictable response from a nucks fan. You guys can’t help get off to the Hughes vs Makar debate.

I’d still take Fox over Hughes. Rangers are having their issues obv, but that’s not enough to discount what Fox has been for 4 years now. Hughes offense has greatly improved but comes at the expense of him playing actual defense. Analytics prove he receives sheltered o zone starts where Fox and Makar have upped their D zone starts in recent years.

This might be the worst post in the entire thread.

Hughes has been very clearly better than Makar defensively this season.

And this comes from someone who has had Makar above Hughes defensively in the past.

Not this season. (Or last season either).

Feel free to argue it without being an obvious Canucks fan who will make it a Makar vs Hughes thing.

I feel like I went at it objectively looking at analytics, both offense and defense, zone start %'s, this year and the previous few years, as well as hypothetically if theyre underachieving or overachieving because of the teams they are on (Dahlin on the Panthers or Hughes on the Sharks).

Please, show your work, because your post contradicts everything you just claimed.

 

[MaKarter]

Tier 1: Makar and Hughes

Tier 2: Werenski, Morrissey, Hedman, Carlson, Fox, and Josi

Tier 3: Heiskanen, Theodore, Dahlin, Dobson, and Bouchard

 

[LemonSauceD]

Its

Predictable response from a nucks fan. You guys can’t help get off to the Hughes vs Makar debate.

I’d still take Fox over Hughes. Rangers are having their issues obv, but that’s not enough to discount what Fox has been for 4 years now. Hughes offense has greatly improved but comes at the expense of him playing actual defense. Analytics prove he receives sheltered o zone starts where Fox and Makar have upped their D zone starts in recent years.

It’s incredible how factually wrong you are LOL

 

[Cousin Eddie]

"Player A doesnt PK and thats why hes bad defensively" is seriously one of the worst and most outdated memes on here and I'm counting down the days until it dies forever

That’s not what I said though. You’re putting words in my mouth to fit your sarcastic narrative.

I never claimed he’s bad defensively. I said he doesn’t play tough defensive situations like the penalty kill or defending leads late in games and used factual evidence to back it.

I didn’t say he’s bad defensively though. I just said there’s 5-6 other Canucks defenseman who have earned those tougher minutes when the game is on the line than he has earned. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s bad. He’s just not as good as the others.

You creating a fake quote and then going on to sarcastically make fun of it is what needs to die around here. Imagine going on an Internet forum to talk to yourself.

 

[Rowlet]

That’s not what I said though. You’re putting words in my mouth to fit your sarcastic narrative.

I never claimed he’s bad defensively. I said he doesn’t play tough defensive situations like the penalty kill or defending leads late in games and used factual evidence to back it.

I didn’t say he’s bad defensively though. I just said there’s 5-6 other Canucks defenseman who have earned those tougher minutes when the game is on the line than he has earned. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s bad. He’s just not as good as the others.

You creating a fake quote and then going on to sarcastically make fun of it is what needs to die around here. Imagine going on an Internet forum to talk to yourself.

Hockey isn't a meritocracy, and Hughes can't be on the ice all the time.

Hughes plays all his minutes at 5v5 and the powerplay because he's one of, if not the most effective possession players in the league.

 

[Rowlet]

a league of his own right now

 

[lionsDen]

makar vs Hughes as predictable as Mack vs McDaid.

The narratives always change. Have fun boys

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I feel like Makar got this insane reputation after his huge Norris + Conn Smythe season and now people think it's unfathomable that anyone could be better.

In reality, Makar hasn't been quite at that level since that season, and he's historically suffered major dips in his play when MacKinnon is out. Hughes meanwhile has only gotten better over the past few seasons, and is driving the play on that Canucks team. I'm not a fan of either of these teams but I feel Hughes is the better player at the moment.

 

[Breakers]

Yeah a guy who won the Norris recently and Vancouver fans live in their own world

So all the PWHA voters are all Vancouver fans.

Got it

 

[a mangy Meowth]

makar vs Hughes as predictable as Mack vs McDaid.

The narratives always change. Have fun boys

It's a rich tapestry of shitposting

 

[Grifter3511]

There's honestly just zero point in even responding to Vancouver fans on here. They truly live in their own world when it comes to Hughes.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[kanucks25]

I can’t believe people have Hughes 1. How can you be the best “defenseman” in the NHL yet your defensive qualities aren’t good enough to kill penalties for your team. Same thing when the Canucks are defending leads late in the game. He legit doesnt play.

Among Canucks defenseman, Hughes is behind Soucy, Myers, Hronek and Juulsen on the TOI depth chart time played defending against a team with the goalie pulled.

7 Canucks defenseman have played more PK minutes than Hughes this year.

He’s beyond talented. He deserves plenty of accolades. But he isn’t the best defenseman in the NHL lol. It’s beyond laughable for anyone to say he is. Perhaps he’s the best defenseman in the NHL when factoring in his retrieval game, transition game and things he does with the puck on his stick. But thats not the topic at hand.

You cannot be the best defenseman in the NHL when you’re option 6 out of the gate for your own team when it comes to defensive situations.

Hughes doesn't PK so he can play more minutes 5-on-5 because the team gets absolutely buried 5-on-5 when he isn't on the ice.

The rest of their defense is composed of big, defensive D-men. It's composed this way to maximize Hughes' impact.

Besides, Hughes has developed into a very good defender 5-on-5. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise other than anecdotes from people who don't even watch him regularly.

-

Also, the guy in this thread who had Hughes at 5 is an obvious troll that runs away from threads once actual evidence is provided that buries his "opinion".

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Hockey isn't a meritocracy, and Hughes can't be on the ice all the time.

Hughes doesn't PK so he can play more minutes 5-on-5 because the team gets absolutely buried 5-on-5 when he isn't on the ice.

The rest of their defense is composed of big, defensive D-men. It's composed this way to maximize Hughes' impact.

Besides, Hughes has developed into a very good defender 5-on-5. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise other than anecdotes from people who don't even watch him regularly.

-

Also, the guy in this thread who had Hughes at 5 is an obvious troll that runs away from threads once actual evidence is provided that buries his "opinion".

Why is he their 5th or 6th option to defend leads in the final few minutes of games though? Trying to save him for the next game?

I’ve credited the guy for so many things he does well but people making excuses for him not being used in defensive situations while the game is on the line is hilarious.

If Hughes was one of Vancouver’s best defenders they’d play him in those minutes when it matters. They wouldn’t try to save his body for future games lol. They’d try to close out the game at hand and get the 2 points this team desperately needs. Rick Tocchet isn’t flirting with blowing leads to save Hughes body for more 5v5 play a few days later LOL. Hes simply picking the better defenders for those situations.

These arguments are wild lol.

 

[Rowlet]

Why is he their 5th or 6th option to defend leads in the final few minutes of games though? Trying to save him for the next game?

I’ve credited the guy for so many things he does well but people making excuses for him not being used in defensive situations while the game is on the line is hilarious.

If Hughes was one of Vancouver’s best defenders they’d play him in those minutes when it matters. They wouldn’t try to save his body for future games lol. They’d try to close out the game at hand and get the 2 points this team desperately needs. Rick Tocchet isn’t flirting with blowing leads to save Hughes body for more 5v5 play a few days later LOL. Hes simply picking the better defenders for those situations.

These arguments are wild lol.

Tocchet doesn't want Hughes laying down in front of pucks when you can have Myers or Juulsen do it.

The Canucks are a lottery team when Hugues isn't on the ice, they absolutely can't risk him getting injured diving in front of pucks.

 

[Regal]

Feel free to argue it without being an obvious Canucks fan who will make it a Makar vs Hughes thing.

I feel like I went at it objectively looking at analytics, both offense and defense, zone start %'s, this year and the previous few years, as well as hypothetically if theyre underachieving or overachieving because of the teams they are on (Dahlin on the Panthers or Hughes on the Sharks).

If you’re looking at analytics and decide that Werenski is vastly better than Hughes defensively, then you’re misinterpreting the data. But I’m not surprised because you’ve done that repeatedly with zone starts

 

[Regal]

View attachment 948739
Guys who recieve the most ozone starts.

That poster believes that because Hughes had more offensive zone starts without Pettersson or Miller on the ice last year than he did in 22-23, and more than Fox and Makar did last year, that he “can’t be trusted defensively without his star centers” despite starting less in the offensive zone without them. It’s not worth trying to argue anything with them.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

The second you start talking about ozone starts and quality of competition and use in very specific situations, you've really lost the plot. We're talking about two elite defensemen here, small specific differences like that don't matter at all when comparing the two. Both of these guys are leaned on heavily by their teams.