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Top 10 best forwards post lockout

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gtrower said:
His individual trophy case blows away anybody not named Gretzky or Lemieux.
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That’s because certain trophies were not available to other players not mentioned.

Howe didn’t have the Rocket available to him. The Pearson didn’t show up until his 25th season, at age 42. The Conn Smythe didn’t appear until his 18th season in the league. He still won 12 trophies without those three not available at all, or well past prime winning years. Retro Rockets bring him to 17. It’s also safe to say he wins a minimum of 4 Pearsons and 1-2 Smythes. That’s a minimum of 22-23 trophies.

Esposito’s trophy count balloons from 9 to 15 if the Rocket existed, similar to what Bobby Hull might have if he enjoyed collecting extra hardware that didn’t exist at the time. Not as many Ovechkin, but significantly closes the gap.

McDavid of course is well on track to pass Ovechkin’s total after racking up 14 in his first 9 seasons.
 
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gtrower said:
How many awards do you think 4-6 are still capable of getting? Kucherov, Draisaitl, and Mackinon have combined for 10 major awards. Ovi has 18.
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Most people don't consider Richard to be equally valuable to Art/Hart/Conn. That is why Crosby and McDavid are higher on most lists.
 
keglu said:
Most people don't consider Richard to be equally valuable to Art/Hart/Conn. That is why Crosby and McDavid are higher on most lists.
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Ovi and Crosby have the same number of non-rocket major trophies. Again you have to arbitrarily ignore *NINE* golden statues from Ovi to even try to start a trophy comparison against any player from his era.
 
Video Nasty said:
That’s because certain trophies were not available to other players not mentioned.

Howe didn’t have the Rocket available to him. The Pearson didn’t show up until his 25th season, at age 42. The Conn Smythe didn’t appear until his 18th season in the league. He still won 12 trophies without those three not available at all, or well past prime winning years. Retro Rockets bring him to 17. It’s also safe to say he wins a minimum of 4 Pearsons and 1-2 Smythes. That’s a minimum of 22-23 trophies.

Esposito’s trophy count balloons from 9 to 15 if the Rocket existed, similar to what Bobby Hull might have if he enjoyed collecting extra hardware that didn’t exist at the time. Not as many Ovechkin, but significantly closes the gap.

McDavid of course is well on track to pass Ovechkin’s total after racking up 14 in his first 9 seasons.
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That’s a solid point. Should have limited it to his current era for “blows away.”

“Well on track” is a tricky assertion to make the way trophy accumulation declines in the back half of careers. This will be two consecutive seasons without a trophy for McDavid. Could very well get to 18 and pass it. Not a foregone conclusion though. He’s certainly the only player since the lockout that belongs in the same conversation.

This argument was mainly focused on the guy claiming MacKinnon / Kucherov / Draisaitl could pass Ovi if they “stick around and win some more trophies.” Yeah, just tack on about 10-15 more each and they’re right there lol.
 
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gtrower said:
That’s a solid point. Should have limited it to his current era for “blows away.”

“Well on track” is a tricky assertion to make the way trophy accumulation declines in the back half of careers. This will be two consecutive seasons without a trophy for McDavid. Could very well get to 18 and pass it. Not a foregone conclusion though. He’s certainly the only player since the lockout that belongs in the same conversation.

This argument was mainly focused on the guy claiming MacKinnon / Kucherov / Draisaitl could pass Ovi if they “stick around and win some more trophies.” Yeah, just tack on about 10-15 more each and they’re right there lol.
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McDavid added the Conn Smythe last season though and we’ll have to wait and see if he does it again in a few months.

Other than that, I understand your overall assertion more now.
 
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authentic said:
Pavel Datsyuk. I don’t see how someone has Matthews ahead of him already, and I would still take 10 years of Datsyuk over Kane and Draisaitl.
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I loved Dats, but I can understand the omissions. He simply doesn’t have the individual hardware that some of the other players have.

Matthews has a Hart and Rocket
Drat has a Hart and Ross (+ likely Rocket, possibly more this season)
Kane had a Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe.

Obviously Datsyuk was a different kind of player, but his lack of awards is pretty conspicuous in comparison.

All that being said, guys like Thornton and H. Sedin also had a Ross and Hart each and don’t make my top-10.
 
Zenos said:
I loved Dats, but I can understand the omissions. He simply doesn’t have the individual hardware that some of the other players have.

Matthews has a Hart and Rocket
Drat has a Hart and Ross (+ likely Rocket, possibly more this season)
Kane had a Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe.

Obviously Datsyuk was a different kind of player, but his lack of awards is pretty conspicuous in comparison.

All that being said, guys like Thornton and H. Sedin also had a Ross and Hart each and don’t make my top-10.
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Well I mean judging players by trophy cases is the conspicuous part really, your examples at the end just prove it. No one is taking Thornton or one of the Sedin’s over Datsyuk. He’s a top 10 forward since 2005 based on actual ability and impact on the game. He was Kopitar or Bergeron with offense closer to the top scorers than those types of players at his best.
 
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Also if this is a “best” players since the lockout and not greatest then Stamkos belongs nowhere near Datsyuk
 
NVious said:
1.Matthews
2.Marner
3.Nylander
4.Kessel
5.Kadri
6.Sundin
7.JVR
8.Lupul
9.Komarov
10.Clarkson
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Unreal how you can’t find a single thread that doesn’t talk about the leafs

No wonder they are the centre of the hockey universe, even the haters can’t stop thinking about toronto
 
villacco said:
As a big Datsyuk Fan.
Shame on me

But Kopitar and Bergeron played like 20 years instead of 10.
Thats why I "forgot" him
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Title of the thread is best, that’s why I was confused. Does Lidstrom playing another 10 years make him better than Orr?

This wasn’t directed at only you btw, even though I quoted you.
 
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After reading this thread. My final list

Sure fire top ten picks due to obvious elite talent. I am not debating position, but thats my personal ranking and it is very close from position to position

1.) Crosby
2.) McDavid
3.) Ovechkin
4.) Kucherov
5.) Malkin
6.) MacKinnon
7.) Draisaitl
8.) Kane
9.) Matthews

I only have 9 guys, who clearly belong in Top 10

For the 10th place I suggest following guys:

Kopitar, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Thornton and Barkov
All 5 guys have a solid case in my opinion. I cannot decide, which one I choose

For me clearly not in the Top 10:
Stamkos: He was the third best goal scorer of his generation, but all other guys are way better line drivers or bring much more to the table. His broken foot hurt his legacy.
 
villacco said:
After reading this thread. My final list

Sure fire top ten picks due to obvious elite talent. I am not debating position, but thats my personal ranking and it is very close from position to position

1.) Crosby
2.) McDavid
3.) Ovechkin
4.) Kucherov
5.) Malkin
6.) MacKinnon
7.) Draisaitl
8.) Kane
9.) Matthews

I only have 9 guys, who clearly belong in Top 10

For the 10th place I suggest following guys:

Kopitar, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Thornton and Barkov
All 5 guys have a solid case in my opinion. I cannot decide, which one I choose

For me clearly not in the Top 10:
Stamkos: He was the third best goal scorer of his generation, but all other guys are way better line drivers or bring much more to the table. His broken foot hurt his legacy.
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Winning I think matters. That gets rid of Joe. Barkov hasn't done enough yet to join this list. And I think at the end of the day, people value offense more than defence. I'd go with Kopitar
 
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