Toggle sidebar

Top 10 best forwards post lockout

gtrower said:
His individual trophy case blows away anybody not named Gretzky or Lemieux.
Click to expand...

That’s because certain trophies were not available to other players not mentioned.

Howe didn’t have the Rocket available to him. The Pearson didn’t show up until his 25th season, at age 42. The Conn Smythe didn’t appear until his 18th season in the league. He still won 12 trophies without those three not available at all, or well past prime winning years. Retro Rockets bring him to 17. It’s also safe to say he wins a minimum of 4 Pearsons and 1-2 Smythes. That’s a minimum of 22-23 trophies.

Esposito’s trophy count balloons from 9 to 15 if the Rocket existed, similar to what Bobby Hull might have if he enjoyed collecting extra hardware that didn’t exist at the time. Not as many Ovechkin, but significantly closes the gap.

McDavid of course is well on track to pass Ovechkin’s total after racking up 14 in his first 9 seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gtrower
gtrower said:
How many awards do you think 4-6 are still capable of getting? Kucherov, Draisaitl, and Mackinon have combined for 10 major awards. Ovi has 18.
Click to expand...
Most people don't consider Richard to be equally valuable to Art/Hart/Conn. That is why Crosby and McDavid are higher on most lists.
 
keglu said:
Most people don't consider Richard to be equally valuable to Art/Hart/Conn. That is why Crosby and McDavid are higher on most lists.
Click to expand...

Ovi and Crosby have the same number of non-rocket major trophies. Again you have to arbitrarily ignore *NINE* golden statues from Ovi to even try to start a trophy comparison against any player from his era.
 
Video Nasty said:
That’s because certain trophies were not available to other players not mentioned.

Howe didn’t have the Rocket available to him. The Pearson didn’t show up until his 25th season, at age 42. The Conn Smythe didn’t appear until his 18th season in the league. He still won 12 trophies without those three not available at all, or well past prime winning years. Retro Rockets bring him to 17. It’s also safe to say he wins a minimum of 4 Pearsons and 1-2 Smythes. That’s a minimum of 22-23 trophies.

Esposito’s trophy count balloons from 9 to 15 if the Rocket existed, similar to what Bobby Hull might have if he enjoyed collecting extra hardware that didn’t exist at the time. Not as many Ovechkin, but significantly closes the gap.

McDavid of course is well on track to pass Ovechkin’s total after racking up 14 in his first 9 seasons.
Click to expand...

That’s a solid point. Should have limited it to his current era for “blows away.”

“Well on track” is a tricky assertion to make the way trophy accumulation declines in the back half of careers. This will be two consecutive seasons without a trophy for McDavid. Could very well get to 18 and pass it. Not a foregone conclusion though. He’s certainly the only player since the lockout that belongs in the same conversation.

This argument was mainly focused on the guy claiming MacKinnon / Kucherov / Draisaitl could pass Ovi if they “stick around and win some more trophies.” Yeah, just tack on about 10-15 more each and they’re right there lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Video Nasty
gtrower said:
That’s a solid point. Should have limited it to his current era for “blows away.”

“Well on track” is a tricky assertion to make the way trophy accumulation declines in the back half of careers. This will be two consecutive seasons without a trophy for McDavid. Could very well get to 18 and pass it. Not a foregone conclusion though. He’s certainly the only player since the lockout that belongs in the same conversation.

This argument was mainly focused on the guy claiming MacKinnon / Kucherov / Draisaitl could pass Ovi if they “stick around and win some more trophies.” Yeah, just tack on about 10-15 more each and they’re right there lol.
Click to expand...

McDavid added the Conn Smythe last season though and we’ll have to wait and see if he does it again in a few months.

Other than that, I understand your overall assertion more now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gtrower
895 said:
1. McDavid
2. Crosby
3. Ovechkin
4. Malkin
5. Kucherov
6. MacKinnon
7. Matthews
8. Draisaitl
9. Kane
10. ?
Click to expand...

Pavel Datsyuk. I don’t see how someone has Matthews ahead of him already, and I would still take 10 years of Datsyuk over Kane and Draisaitl.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TkachukNorris79
authentic said:
Pavel Datsyuk. I don’t see how someone has Matthews ahead of him already, and I would still take 10 years of Datsyuk over Kane and Draisaitl.
Click to expand...
I loved Dats, but I can understand the omissions. He simply doesn’t have the individual hardware that some of the other players have.

Matthews has a Hart and Rocket
Drat has a Hart and Ross (+ likely Rocket, possibly more this season)
Kane had a Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe.

Obviously Datsyuk was a different kind of player, but his lack of awards is pretty conspicuous in comparison.

All that being said, guys like Thornton and H. Sedin also had a Ross and Hart each and don’t make my top-10.
 
Zenos said:
I loved Dats, but I can understand the omissions. He simply doesn’t have the individual hardware that some of the other players have.

Matthews has a Hart and Rocket
Drat has a Hart and Ross (+ likely Rocket, possibly more this season)
Kane had a Ross, Hart, Conn Smythe.

Obviously Datsyuk was a different kind of player, but his lack of awards is pretty conspicuous in comparison.

All that being said, guys like Thornton and H. Sedin also had a Ross and Hart each and don’t make my top-10.
Click to expand...

Well I mean judging players by trophy cases is the conspicuous part really, your examples at the end just prove it. No one is taking Thornton or one of the Sedin’s over Datsyuk. He’s a top 10 forward since 2005 based on actual ability and impact on the game. He was Kopitar or Bergeron with offense closer to the top scorers than those types of players at his best.
 
Last edited:
1. Ovi
2. Crosby
3. McDavid
4. Malkin
5. MacKinnon
6. Draisaitl
7. KucherovMatthews
8. Kane
9. Matthews
10. Stamkos
 
Also if this is a “best” players since the lockout and not greatest then Stamkos belongs nowhere near Datsyuk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
adding hide avatars option

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom