Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Non Player Canadiens]

bumping old Confirmed With Link thread?

 

[Andrei79]

I'm good with Heineman and Mesar.

Heineman made the team out of camp. And he looked good in his role. He'll be a Bottom-6 player. But he has NHL skating and shot. And because of that shot, he could become an option on the PP. And he has used his 6'2" and 198 lbs frame to his advantage.

Mesar, for all his detractors, still is a promising prospect who was over a PPG player in regular season, playoffs, and WJC last year. He's about to start his first pro season in North America so let's wait before we start making decisions on him.

He had 5 SOG in his one preseason game with the Habs and he could've had a goal as he hit the post. He had an assist in 2 Laval preseason games. And he had an assist in 2 AHL games last year before they decided to send him to Kitchener.

I would also add that if you want the highest pick possible for a few years, you need to get rid of some players. The sum of trading Lehkonen and Toffoli also means you have more chances of picking 5 two years straight, picking up Demidov along the way. The cap space allows you to trade for Monahan.

 

[Team_Spirit]

I don't think this reflects poorly on Toffoli at all. He was traded to playoff teams (Calgary, New Jersey, and Winnipeg respectively) because they valued the player and thought he'd improve their team, and all teams sent back decent packages (including first round picks in the first two cases). Then SJ gave him a raise to support their recent No.1 overall pick. This is not a journeyman situation, Toffoli is clearly valued across the league.

Yes exactly he's valued as the pp1 designated sniper. Problem is most contenders have better option

SJ is perfect for him.

 

[HuGort]

The pick was Volokhin

 

[CaptainKirk]

I would also add that if you want the highest pick possible for a few years, you need to get rid of some players. The sum of trading Lehkonen and Toffoli also means you have more chances of picking 5 two years straight, picking up Demidov along the way. The cap space allows you to trade for Monahan.

We also had to shed salary and no one wanted the contracts of Hoffman, Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, Price or Weber.

 

[Colezuki]

We also had to shed salary and no one wanted the contracts of Hoffman, Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, Price or Weber.

we did trade weber though in the end

 

[BLONG7]

Yes it was a good deal. The key to the deal was it weakened us short term. We were able to get Slaf, Reinbacher, and Demidov by being so weak.

Heineman and Mesar are just potential depth players. The key was getting those potential core pieces. I like that Hughes has since used late 1sts to package them with a 2nd to get Newhook and Hage. In hindsight it would have been nice if he did that with the Toffoli 1st. Ironically, we may not have gotten Hutson if he had! So even that use (or misuse getting Mesar) of the late 1st was even better than the subsequent uses of late 1st that brought in Newhook and Hage. Still hope the Florida 1st is packaged. Only once in a blue moon do you get a player like Hutson with a late 2nd.

All true............not to mention without Price, we all knew we were heading to the basement no matter how we sliced it.................the extra 1st rounders were sorely needed.

 

[26Mats]

All true............not to mention without Price, we all knew we were heading to the basement no matter how we sliced it.................the extra 1st rounders were sorely needed.

Really looking forward to seeing what Hughes does with the Florida 1st. Hopefully it's packaged for a nice piece.

 

[Knuckles30]

I would also add that if you want the highest pick possible for a few years, you need to get rid of some players. The sum of trading Lehkonen and Toffoli also means you have more chances of picking 5 two years straight, picking up Demidov along the way. The cap space allows you to trade for Monahan.

Ok, for arguments sake let's say we drafted 3 spots lower in each of the next 3 drafts. So if (big if - you can argue Habs reached with Slaf and Reinbacher) the picks go in the same order we end up with Shane Wright, Ryan Leonard, and Berkley Catton instead of Slaf, Reinbacher, and Demidov. Not sure that's a huge step down.

My biggest problem with the trade was that Toffoli still had term on a great value contract. We could have gotten a late first and a B prospect when his contract was expiring. Same reason I don't understand why anyone wants to trade Matheson.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I don't think this reflects poorly on Toffoli at all. He was traded to playoff teams (Calgary, New Jersey, and Winnipeg respectively) because they valued the player and thought he'd improve their team, and all teams sent back decent packages (including first round picks in the first two cases). Then SJ gave him a raise to support their recent No.1 overall pick. This is not a journeyman situation, Toffoli is clearly valued across the league.

It doesn't reflect poorly on him at all, just indicates that he's more of a secondary player and not a core piece and that's reflected in the price. He's been traded four times in his career and Montreal is the only team to ever get a 1st for him.

We also had to shed salary and no one wanted the contracts of Hoffman, Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, Price or Weber.

Yeah this has kinda been memory holed because we are finally in something approaching a decent cap situation now, but we had absolutely no money back then and Price was not confirmed on LTIR yet. Until August 2021 the Habs had to operate as if Price could still potentially come back and play, and even after trading Petry, Kulak, Chiarot, Toffoli, and Lehkonen with only Matheson coming back, we were still totally capped out until Price agreed to go on LTIR that summer (which is when we did the first Monahan trade and the Dach contract). Monahan shows how expensive it would have been to dump our own bad contracts.

My biggest problem with the trade was that Toffoli still had term on a great value contract. We could have gotten a late first and a B prospect when his contract was expiring. Same reason I don't understand why anyone wants to trade Matheson.

As mentioned above the term left was a problem because we didn't have the cap to keep him around so they decided to just take the late 1st and a B prospect when it was available to avoid having to pay exorbitant prices to dump Drouin/Anderson/Gallagher/Hoffman/Armia under the flat cap.

 

[LaP]

It doesn't reflect poorly on him at all, just indicates that he's more of a secondary player and not a core piece and that's reflected in the price. He's been traded four times in his career and Montreal is the only team to ever get a 1st for him.

Here's what Toffoli returned when he was traded :

2020 : Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2nd round pick, 4th round pick
2022 : Tyler Pitlick, Emil Heineman, 1st round pick, 5th round pick
2023 : Yegor Sharangovish, 3rd round pick
2024 : 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

The best return so far is Sharangovich but he finished last year at -29 so could be a case of an overused player on a bad team i did not watch Calgary much last year.

 

[HuGort]

If we had hit on the pick been better deal. Hutson or Kulich, Minten. But yeah lost trade in a landslide. Toffoli 35 goal scorer on cheap contract with term. Flames flipped him for better return. .

 

[Natey]

If we had hit on the pick been better deal. Hutson or Kulich, Minten. But yeah lost trade in a landslide. Toffoli 35 goal scorer on cheap contract with term. Flames flipped him for better return. .

You have no idea if we hit on the pick or not yet

 

[HuGort]

You have no idea if we hit on the pick or not yet

Doesn't look good, Mesar small and soft. Last thing we need

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

"We got fleeced on the lekhonen deal!!! Fleeced on the toffoli deal!!!"


- Somebody that doesn't understand asset management and rebuilding a team

 

[MXD]

This trade doesn't look great, but most of it is because Mesar was picked. It's absolutely not bad in any meaningful sense.

 

[Andrei79]

Ok, for arguments sake let's say we drafted 3 spots lower in each of the next 3 drafts. So if (big if - you can argue Habs reached with Slaf and Reinbacher) the picks go in the same order we end up with Shane Wright, Ryan Leonard, and Berkley Catton instead of Slaf, Reinbacher, and Demidov. Not sure that's a huge step down.

My biggest problem with the trade was that Toffoli still had term on a great value contract. We could have gotten a late first and a B prospect when his contract was expiring. Same reason I don't understand why anyone wants to trade Matheson.

No, I don't think you can argue that the Habs reached with Slaf, nor that the group is in any way as enticing. Drafting just Demidov makes it worth finishing lower.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

"We got fleeced on the lekhonen deal!!! Fleeced on the toffoli deal!!!"


- Somebody that doesn't understand asset management and rebuilding a team

I guess the HuGo honeymoon is coming to an end. The Lekhy deal looks bad. At least they traded up for Hage. Barron is busting.

Heineman can turn out to be a good bottom six energy guy. There's lots of hate on Mesar. His stats are not so bad in the juniors. Let's see what he does with the Rocket.

 

[1909]

I would had try to keep Toffoli… and Danault…. and Lehkonen….. And drop the deadwood instead. But they all had new big long contracts (Gally and Armia and Anderson) thanks to Bergie !!!!

 

[MasterD]

I would had try to keep Toffoli… and Danault…. and Lehkonen….. And drop the deadwood instead. But they all had new big long contracts (Gally and Armia and Anderson) thanks to Bergie !!!!

And now you know why your so called "plan" is not even worth discussing. No way to trade those guys without taking other garbage contracts.

Also can't properly rebuild with high draft picks by keeping Danault and Toffoli.

 

[the valiant effort]

"We got fleeced on the lekhonen deal!!! Fleeced on the toffoli deal!!!"


- Somebody that doesn't understand asset management and rebuilding a team

The attachment to Lehkonen really shows just how shit the Habs have been up front for the bulk of 30 years.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The attachment to Lehkonen really shows just how shit the Habs have been up front for the bulk of 30 years.

Some people would have kept Danault Lekh and Tofu , chasing that wildcard spot and dream of getting carried by a goalie for 20 more years instead of rebuilding to have a shot at a championship like any modern day sports team does in a parity league