Player Discussion Tocchet What Is/How He Doing?

[kanucks25]

To clarify: You're saying that the personnel issue here is not actually the DFDs but the two 100 point centres not being able to make a play? And that they are offered free reign in the system that teaches high-low hockey without east-west movement (which risks turnovers)?

One point to reiterate: They are still converting more than their xGF suggests this year, as they did last year. They're just not getting into the Ozone as often, nor are they generating enough shots when there.

No, I think the defenders or the lack thereof is a major reason why the offense is struggling. Not getting the puck out of the zone fast enough and not getting it out cleanly enough on a consistent basis means the team has less opportunity to create offense, especially off the rush. And then there's the issue of the D-men trying to handle the puck on the blueline which either leads to a turnover or a blocked shot or something.

But I think the forwards, especially our top forwards, not making enough plays on their own is also a big issue that has little to do with coaching. I don't think Tocchet is telling them it's mandatory that they have to retrieve the puck and pass it up to one of the AHLers on the blueline for them to create a scoring chance. I think if Pettersson or Miller want to make an east/west pass or a pass into the slot or drive the net themselves, Tocchet would encourage that. They simply aren't making these kinds of plays because they are not playing well enough game in and game out.

I imagine guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Kucherov, Kaprizov, etc. don't feel like they need to pass up to the point when they have the puck because they're constantly beating a defender and making a pass, or beating a defender and driving the net, or beating a defender and getting a good shot off, or skating well enough with the puck to put the defenders in a spin cycle and create havoc (again, Hughes is the only Canuck who is doing these things).

 

[Bleach Clean]

No, I think the defenders or the lack thereof is a major reason why the offense is struggling. Not getting the puck out of the zone fast enough and not getting it out cleanly enough on a consistent basis means the team has less opportunity to create offense, especially off the rush. And then there's the issue of the D-men trying to handle the puck on the blueline which either leads to a turnover or a blocked shot or something.

But I think the forwards, especially our top forwards, not making enough plays on their own is also a big issue that has little to do with coaching. I don't think Tocchet is telling them it's mandatory that they have to retrieve the puck and pass it up to one of the AHLers on the blueline for them to create a scoring chance. I think if Pettersson or Miller want to make an east/west pass or a pass into the slot or drive the net themselves, Tocchet would encourage that. They simply aren't making these kinds of plays because they are not playing well enough game in and game out.

I imagine guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Kucherov, Kaprizov, etc. don't feel like they need to pass up to the point when they have the puck because they're constantly beating a defender and making a pass, or beating a defender and driving the net, or beating a defender and getting a good shot off, or skating well enough with the puck to put the defenders in a spin cycle and create havoc (again, Hughes is the only Canuck who is doing these things).

No question, Miller and Pettersson haven't delivered. Likely due to injury. At the same time, beating defenders is very difficult to do consistently when there are no rush opportunities, all other forwards avoid east-west passing, and you're cycling against a ready 5-man set. The high percentage play is to go to the Dman and everyone knows it, even the two star centres.

I think that despite the stars struggling, most everyone has settled on the defense as the real culprits here. They are terrible at creating offense. But isn't it interesting that going into the year that Tocchet focused hard on creating rush offense, the GM and coach signed possession forwards that had rush utility, and the team has utterly failed in this regard?

That with this DCorps (partial absence of Hronek withstanding), Tocchet expected this team to be better than last year on the rush... How? And now the refrain is 'they have to move their feet' and 'they're not executing the plan' and 'we've talked about being in spots to receive a pass'... To me, this showed a preference for higher event hockey with low-event defenders - A mismatch that devolved into the no-rush hockey we see now.

 

[kanucks25]

No question, Miller and Pettersson haven't delivered. Likely due to injury. At the same time, beating defenders is very difficult to do consistently when there are no rush opportunities, all other forwards avoid east-west passing, and you're cycling against a ready 5-man set. The high percentage play is to go to the Dman and everyone knows it, even the two star centres.

I think that despite the stars struggling, most everyone has settled on the defense as the real culprits here. They are terrible at creating offense. But isn't it interesting that going into the year that Tocchet focused hard on creating rush offense, the GM and coach signed possession forwards that had rush utility, and the team has utterly failed in this regard?

That with this DCorps (partial absence of Hronek withstanding), Tocchet expected this team to be better than last year on the rush... How? And now the refrain is 'they have to move their feet' and 'they're not executing the plan' and 'we've talked about being in spots to receive a pass'... To me, this showed a preference for higher event hockey with low-event defenders - A mismatch that devolved into the no-rush hockey we see now.

They went away from the plan of becoming a better rush team pretty early in the season because the players looked completely lost trying to execute the new system. Now you can argue the coaching staff did a bad job of implementing or teaching the new system, but most former players would tell you that at the NHL level, it shouldn't be so difficult for players to grasp new or different concepts.

But you are correct that there's a complete mismatch between trying to play a more up-tempo style and icing the D group that they are. When most of your D-men are limited when it comes to poise, puck-handling, skating ability, passing ability and general offensive IQ, you're going to have trouble executing offense. This is a failure on management but also on the coaches if they are requesting defensive trees exclusively.

As you mentioned, Tocchet talks often about how the players didn't execute the plan the coaches gave them. I think the main problem is the players aren't good enough to consistently execute, so there's definitely a disconnect here. And I think that's why they've opted back to low-event hockey, because it's been proven that the best chance a team with limited talent has to win consistently is shutting things down all over the ice.

I imagine if we ever add a D-man or two that can actually make a play, it would allow them to open things up a bit more. I'm honestly confused whenever people suggest this roster is underperforming especially with the injuries we've had. We are pretty much where we should be based on the lineup we've iced most nights.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

Guys have been in and out of the lineup but there's no reason a team with two recent 100 point players AND Quinn Hughes is dead last in the league in shot attempts entering tonight's debacle.

The blue line is a catastrophe but my understanding is Allvin got these dinosaurs at the request of Tocchet.

 

[DFAC]

Has run his time here. His system is not working for this team (hasn't for a year)

 

[ExarKun80]

Rick is doing his best Travis Green impersonation.

 

[David71]

its time to cut ties? end of the season though. no point in making a coaching change again.. this core doesnt deserve a 7th or 100th coach anymore.

 

[WiLBoY]

Coaches only last 1.5 years for the Canucks

 

[Isi]

One point to reiterate: They are still converting more than their xGF suggests this year, as they did last year. They're just not getting into the Ozone as often, nor are they generating enough shots when there.

although since Dec 1 (aka basically half our season now), our 5v5 shooting percentage is 14th in the league and our xGF is actually ahead of GF (albeit by 1.77 goals).

tocchet should simply tell them to shoot at historically unsustainable shooting% levels like before.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Team turned the corner under Boudreau and started finding their mojo playing fun exciting hockey, they were given a lot of room to make mistakes. Tocchet brought in better structure and really rounded out this team nicely and fixed a lot of errors, Canucks became a lot better defensively. This season it seems like they lost a little bit of that fun run’n’gun offensive creativity. Seem like a Darryl Sutter coached team at times this year lol.

 

[Hoglander]

Rick can go suck a ****.

He is coaching to have his offence go through the dmen, but only has 1 dman capable of not just making plays, but hitting the net. Everyone knows that Hughes can carry his partner, and that Hronek should be driving the 2nd pairing, but Tocchet stubbornly refuses to even attempt to spread the puck-moving ability around... and it wastes Hronek's ability as he ALWAYS deferring to Hughes in the offensive zone, to the point where Hronek's significant point shot isn't even used.

Tocchet specifically targeted Desharnais, phoned him personally, then sits the 2mil player that he wanted, in favour of Juulsen - who he already had. Just stupid.

The strength of the team should be the forwards, with Miller, EP, Boeser, DeBrusk, Garland - yet Tocchet is having these guys cycle around and passing it to Juulsen, Forbort, Myers, Soucy, so those offensively inept players can take the shots instead. You don't need high-talent forwards if all they need to do is look for tips and garbage goals. Tocchet's system requires dmen to be the strength of the team, but HE is the one lobbying to bring in no-talent dmen, and I don't believe for a second that he couldn't get the forwards to shoot more... it just isn't what he wants, and it's cratering the effectiveness of the forwards, putting the team out of sync with their abilities.

Just fire him already.

 

[Breakers]

He doesn’t have a contract

Probably won’t get one

And the owner will scour the bargain basement like he is on record saying that he does.

Defensive metrics aside
Bottom of the league in a few offensive metrics, and our offense has zero clue how to handle the neutral zone
We were a terrible neutral zone team under green

Funny they are besties

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

was there any reason to think this guy was deserving of another head coaching job after phoenix? You might think I was about to say "no," but of course there IS a reason: he's in the club! He gets to have jobs in this bush league sport until he doesn't want one anymore!