Player Discussion Tocchet What Is/How He Doing?

[theguardianII]

So far the gruff talk has been backed up by sitting SOME players.

Through his media pressers he talks alot about areas of play that 3rd and 4th liners are expected to play or those that are on the top two lines as the defensive player or swiss army knife for all aspects of the game.

He is alot like Green, his style and apparent expectations but few of the players on this team can or should be turned into 3rd/4th line grinders.

Garland? Boeser? Kuzmenko? all seem to be not playing to potential. Boeser is getting points they all are but the team still loses and now the goal seems to be winning board battles, the stuff done in junior hockey.

What he wants IMHO, is not contusive to most of the players. Some have been goal scorers and are being paid for that.

Soon he will, again IMO, alienate some players.

I worry about his insistence for inclusion in trades when he is so lacking in knowledge of the team. It does not appear that he has examined the last 5 years of these players playing or the results of those seasons. I would hate to see who he thinks should be drafted. He was out of hockey all together for years living in Vegas just doing game by game analysis and now inclusion?

Optimism is fine but ignorance is not. Whose team is it anyway? Allvin and the Chipmunks have taken over a year to decide and now there is a new voice that knows next to nothing about the team's history to listen to? Really?

How many times can this happen where the "new person" needs another year to figure it out? Are they really anyway or is it just another delaying tactic and attempt to sell hope? They keep doing this and the team could move and then an new franchise here in 10 years may be quicker to winning a cup than delay, delay, delay for every new person hired.

Tocchet has not had time to do anything other than talk to the players, if all he needed was 8 practices then he would be a genius and would have had a job other than laughing at what was happening in Vancouver before he was hired.

The players on this team are the result of three different builds, they are a Frankenstein that need major surgery.

He gets hired after the tough part of the schedule is over, wins a few games and suddenly the message is changed and getting through but the team still needs to score 5 goals to be close. What change?

You know he wants Chychrun here he was his coach when the kid entered the league and Tocchet played the hell out of him. But the kid is flawed now, to brittle, he loved Garland too. Miller is his kind of shit disturber in the room because he is too old school. Chychrun would cost the Canucks 3 years of the future and Pettersson but Tocchet wants inclusion.

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[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Good tank commander.

 

[Icebreakers]

He's a stop gap for this team. He won't get us to the next level. He's a coach who won't push players to the next level but won't let them sink to the bottom. His history proves it.

 

[m9]

He's been fine. Hard to judge because this team is awful.

 

[Gurn]

3-3-1 against some of the worst teams.
now the losing to the good teams, starts.

 

[me2]

I don't mind the strategy of working on players games rather than tailoring the plans to their strengths. Hopefully the tank goes even better while the players improve for next year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

3-3-1 against some of the worst teams.
now the losing to the good teams, starts.

Never underestimate a loose team in garbage time against a ‘good’ team..

 

[racerjoe]

I don't think he is currently coaching to win. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is trying to lose, I just think his priority is to build in habits and expectations for next year.

 

[joelCAMEL]

... What he wants IMHO, is not contusive to most of the players. Some have been goal scorers and are being paid for that.

Soon he will, again IMO, alienate some players.

I worry about his insistence for inclusion in trades when he is so lacking in knowledge of the team. It does not appear that he has examined the last 5 years of these players playing or the results of those seasons. I would hate to see who he thinks should be drafted. He was out of hockey all together for years living in Vegas just doing game by game analysis and now inclusion?

Optimism is fine but ignorance is not. Whose team is it anyway? Allvin and the Chipmunks have taken over a year to decide and now there is a new voice that knows next to nothing about the team's history to listen to? Really? ...

You know he wants Chychrun ... Miller is his kind of shit disturber in the room because he is too old school. Chychrun would cost the Canucks 3 years of the future and Pettersson but Tocchet wants inclusion.

Out of hockey for years? He left Arizona in 2021 and joined Vancouver in 2023 ... less than 2 years later.

I prefer that input from the head coach is included, prior to making trades. That does not mean he decides, it means he gets to offer his opinion before the GM makes the final decision. It also gives management a chance to see if his opinion has any value and whether he should be taken seriously next trade.

Team history shows this is not a playoff team. The current season shows that the team has poor practise habits, poor game habits and needs better fitness levels. What errors has he made, by not examining the last 5 years of play, assuming that it is a valid criticism?

You and I disagree on how much influence Tocchet can have, by being included on future trades.

 

[MS]

I don't think he is currently coaching to win. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is trying to lose, I just think his priority is to build in habits and expectations for next year.

The fact he’s starting Martin in 50% of games should make this obvious.

Overall, I think it’s been reasonably positive.

+ overall defensive play looks much improved, shots against and chances against are significantly down.
+ JT Miller looks re-engaged.
+ Podkolzin is back up and is getting lots of icetime and looks back on track.
+ some depth guys (Joshua) have improved.

- handling of Kuzmenko is infuriating.

 

[m9]

Kuzmenko's play probably warrants a drop to the 3rd line. The problem is on this team the drop from 1C to 3C is EP to Sheldon Dries so it feels like he's been punished excessively.

No excuse for him not being on PP1 though, but that might not be on Tocchet.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I don't think any coach would be able to solve our goaltending troubles or enact a solid structure in such a short period of time. Bruce got his bump because he loosened the team up but without Vezna goaltending that can't work for us. Now Tocchet needs to build structure and if that means our players drop 10-15 points from their pace but we give up more than that number of goals per game he'll do it.

 

[racerjoe]

Kuzmenko's play probably warrants a drop to the 3rd line. The problem is on this team the drop from 1C to 3C is EP to Sheldon Dries so it feels like he's been punished excessively.

No excuse for him not being on PP1 though, but that might not be on Tocchet.

I will be more worried if after the deadline this stays the same. I think some of it is trying to give Boeser a bump and a look.

I do think the he wants Kuze to be better in his own end, and that is why the drop in lines, but I also think if he was still getting PP1 time we wouldn't see this significant drop.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

I am not too worried about Kuz yet and and am not going to judge Tocchet yet. They still have had almost no practice time thus far. The team will get to understand how Toch wants them to play a bit more during this home stretch. I just hope they keep playing Martin as he deserves more of a chance. (the last part is a lie, go team tank)

 

[VanJack]

Green, Boudreau, Tocchet...meh......despite the efforts of the house radio station to promote the idea that the Canucks are a tighter ship under Tocchet, the numbers just don't bear it out.

They're still bleeding goals and scoring chances, and the PK is headed for historically bad numbers. They could exhume Toe Blake and Punch Imlach and stick them behind the bench, and it wouldn't make any difference.

There's only one party that can fix this team, and it's Rutherford and Allvin, assuming they have the freedom from ownership to do what has to be done.

 

[theguardianII]

Out of hockey for years? He left Arizona in 2021 and joined Vancouver in 2023 ... less than 2 years later.

I prefer that input from the head coach is included, prior to making trades. That does not mean he decides, it means he gets to offer his opinion before the GM makes the final decision. It also gives management a chance to see if his opinion has any value and whether he should be taken seriously next trade.

Team history shows this is not a playoff team. The current season shows that the team has poor practise habits, poor game habits and needs better fitness levels. What errors has he made, by not examining the last 5 years of play, assuming that it is a valid criticism?

You and I disagree on how much influence Tocchet can have, by being included on future trades.

Essentially you are saying this team has a country club attitude.

I just call it a losing culture and those are contagious and very hard to get rid of.

In both cases it is the players that need to be excised.

Poor practice habits? Green must have been a p***y cat and Boudreau too.

Do you know how much Tocchet sounds like Tortorella?

Last year Boudreau had the team winning 2 games to every one they lost immediately so I do know how much a coach can influence a team when that team is made to believe in a new voice.

The big talk around Tocchet is how he has the team playing SO MUCH BETTER 5 on 5 and how Tocchet is holding them accountable. But the PP and PK are now worse and there are even more goals scored against.

One thing about Tocchet I guess you will like is last night he said this team "needs to keep stripping this down until we get it right".

Last night Kuzmenko got 16:12, Myers got 19:51 and Stillman 18:07 and were either 0 +/- or +1 the right way?

In truth I never thought the team could catch Chicago but now with a couple more trades it is possible. I never even considered Bedard as a real possibility I was thinking just the better draft position for two picks, the Canucks 1rst and 2nd rounds this year.

GOD I HOPE THEY DON'T TRADE FOR CHYCHRUN, too expensive for a player with his injury history.

 

[MS]

Green, Boudreau, Tocchet...meh......despite the efforts of the house radio station to promote the idea that the Canucks are a tighter ship under Tocchet, the numbers just don't bear it out.

They're still bleeding goals and scoring chances, and the PK is headed for historically bad numbers. They could exhume Toe Blake and Punch Imlach and stick them behind the bench, and it wouldn't make any difference.

There's only one party that can fix this team, and it's Rutherford and Allvin, assuming they have the freedom from ownership to do what has to be done.

This is just a completely incorrect statement. Aside from GAA (driven by terrible goaltending) the numbers do bear it out.

We're down from 32 SA/game under Boudreau to 25/game under Tocchet, a 21% improvement.

Our xGA/game under Tocchet is 2.52, down from 3.28 under Boudreau.

Everything looks much better, it's just that our goalies have an impossible-to-comprehend .831 save % since he took over.

 

[Vector]

Cam Charron doesn't agree.



Personally, I'm seeing a slight improvement but not anything that's actually making any sort of difference.

 

[Nucker101]

I’m going to need a larger sample size due to score effects before claiming that Tocchet has improved this team. And Tocchet himself needs more practice time with this group(he’s mentioned this multiple times himself) so to me it doesn’t even make sense to include his first few games as head coach when evaluating the job he’s done.

I just hope we don’t have a 3rd coach who gets blamed again if this team continues to suck. Spoiler alert: Even good coaches on winning teams make lineup decisions that frustrate fans. You’re never going to have a coach who runs lines exactly how most fans want them to.

After the Green/Benning firing and Bruce hiring, we heard “it’s on the players now, no more excuses” and yet here we are today.

 

[Sharkbomb]

Well, I personally don't expect the commander of an M1 Abrams tank to fly an F-35 Lightning II. I think Tocchet is an awful fighter jet pilot, but this thing we have built in Vancouver is no fighter jet. So I think he's doing fine.

 

[VanJack]

Why the obsession with who's coaching this awful lineup? Green, Boudreau, Tocchet...whatever. As the old saying goes, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers'. Really doesn't matter much who's behind the bench.

The new guys in the executive booth have been here for barely a season, so they haven't had a chance to dismantle this terrible roster. The guy who really 'owns' this team is the 'owner'.

We're where we are because he hired then defended the worst GM in Canuck history for almost a decade.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I have no problems with RT since he's been here..The team has been playing with better puck support than it was with BB, and most games have been entertaining (there's been 2 stinkers, Seattle and Detroit last night)...Its pretty tough to gain any traction though, with our horrendous goalkeeping.

I was under the impression that he was a hard taskmaster like Torts (who humiliated players at the bench, rode 2 lines into the ground, and generally broke the team)...but he's not like that...Doesnt have the smugness of Green, or the charisma of Boudreau...but comes across, calm and confident.

He seems to be patient in trying to change the culture in the room..This doesnt happen overnight, and will take time..Repetition of higher standards of practicing, preparedness appears to be the target..Everytime the team shits the bed, its back to the basics again the next day.

No complaints from me about the hire.

 

[Canucker]

Tocchet was not very high on my list of coaches to replace BB (actually he didnt even register)...but I haven't really had any big issues with him so far...its hard to really give him a grade because of all the turmoil surrounding the team, all the talk surrounding players coming and going, ECHL level goaltending and a likely desire to tank the season from management. Unless he f***s up the tank, or does something stupid, I'm going to pass on grading him until training camp.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Cam Charron doesn't agree.



Personally, I'm seeing a slight improvement but not anything that's actually making any sort of difference.

Don't know what else to say except... Yyyyup.

 

[racerjoe]

I think when your goaltending has been this bad, it is all just noise. Have we improved? Who really knows, but players will play differently knowing they can't trust what is behind them.

I also think there is more accountability now, just the players know this is the teams coach moving forward, nothing to do with BB or how he ran the team.

The rest is just way too early to tell.