Advice: To try out or not to try out

[jetsmooseice]

My kid is entering U13 and he's a good player but by no means elite. He played on the 2nd highest out of the 6 tiers locally, I'd say that he was moderately better than average on his team but not the top player.

This year the AA club hockey starts and I'm not sure what to advise my kid. I don't think he will make the cut (especially as an 11 year old) and I don't want to set him up to fail. But on the other hand the conventional wisdom is that you should try out no matter what, because "you never know".

What is the way to go in situations like this? Just damn the torpedoes, throw down the tryout fee and have at 'er regardless of the unpleasant feelings (and possible disenchantment) that a cut would lead to? Or just go back to minor hockey and stick with the tried and true, trying to improve to better the odds for next season when he'll be one of the older kids?

I realize that getting cut is something almost everyone deals with at some point, but what I want to avoid is a situation where I throw him into a hopeless case and it alienates him from the game and diminishes his interest in playing. (To this point he has been an enthusiastic player.)

Thanks for any insight.

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[Yukon Joe]

So I have some experience here...

My oldest kid - as a first year U13 tried out for AA. He was a pretty late cut. Went back and somehow made Tier 2, but had an awesome year, was a Tier 1 affiliate a few times. He made AA his second year U13, and again made U15AA his first year. Trying out for U15 AAA this year.

My middle kid - tried out his first year U13. He was in the first round of cuts. He made Tier 4, again had an awesome year - but a long ways from AA.

My middle kid will try out for AA again this year. I don't think he'll make it, but he has a fighter's chance.

So - only you know your kid. Making AA is not the be-all, end-all. I don't think in general there's any harm in trying out and seeing where you stand - but you know your kid the best. If you think your kid will be emotionally hurt by not making it - that' a factor. The tryout fee isn't outrageous but it isn't nothing either - you're fully entitled to say 'Nah - not worth it".

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Assuming that lower league will still he an option, might as well try out. Your son will see what it takes and will know what he has to do to get to that level.

It seems like you don't live in a small ass, back water town where teams are more about who you know rather than how good you are, so he has a fair chance

 

[Yukon Joe]

Assuming that lower league will still he an option, might as well try out. Your son will see what it takes and will know what he has to do to get to that level.

It seems like you don't live in a small ass, back water town where teams are more about who you know rather than how good you are, so he has a fair chance

So I think it's pretty obvious where @jetsmooseice is from based on his username/avatar...

You can never get away entirely from the "who you know" factor in hockey tryouts. In part it's understandable - if you know a kid works hard but is just having a bad day you'll give them more of a break compared to someone you just don't know entirely. But that's the most charitable version. Sometimes it isn't so nice.

Last year's tryouts (and trying to keep this as anonymous as possible because it isn't my kid) - there was one kid trying out for U15AA who looked pretty terrible. But the kid also had a "name", at least in local hockey circles. He was ultimately cut at the end - but lots of parents wondered why he made it anywhere as close as he did.

But like I said - sometimes it makes sense too. You can understand why they might want to take the kid who is a really good locker room presence and is really coachable - even if maybe not 100% as skilled on the ice.

 

[timekeep]

My kid is entering U13 and he's a good player but by no means elite. He played on the 2nd highest out of the 6 tiers locally, I'd say that he was moderately better than average on his team but not the top player.

This year the AA club hockey starts and I'm not sure what to advise my kid. I don't think he will make the cut (especially as an 11 year old) and I don't want to set him up to fail. But on the other hand the conventional wisdom is that you should try out no matter what, because "you never know".

What is the way to go in situations like this? Just damn the torpedoes, throw down the tryout fee and have at 'er regardless of the unpleasant feelings (and possible disenchantment) that a cut would lead to? Or just go back to minor hockey and stick with the tried and true, trying to improve to better the odds for next season when he'll be one of the older kids?

I realize that getting cut is something almost everyone deals with at some point, but what I want to avoid is a situation where I throw him into a hopeless case and it alienates him from the game and diminishes his interest in playing. (To this point he has been an enthusiastic player.)

Thanks for any insight.

If your kid wants to play AA hockey he will need to try out eventually and might as well go through the process. Make sure he knows what happens if he is cut and if he can accept that then go for it. I see it as a learning opportunity and he will know the process next year. As Gaylord mentioned, is the Tier One still an option if he tries out? If not then you need to make a decision and not be as concerned with preparing for the year after.

Trying for the top team is a challenge and he/she should be complimented for wanting to reach that goal.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

My son just did a B tryout in the spring (for play in the fall). It was only $50 so we really had nothing to lose. I was kind of surprised to see that there were a lot of kids who were not even close to the level my son plays trying out as well, so I guess the “nothing to lose” mantra is a powerful one.

So now the fun part. My son had a heck of a tryout and it didn’t seem to matter at all. All of the incumbents made it after rarely suiting up and the 2 spots available went to kids based on previous seasons’ work at lower levels. It was all predetermined. One of the kids in particular, was absolutely invisible in the scrimmages (due to skills not translating at a higher level).

If someone had have been up front with us and said, “Hey we’re giving the spots to these two kids because they’ve paid their dues”, I probably would’ve been okay with it. But they went ahead with this farce of a “tryout”.

There might be one positive that came out of it. My son knows that he can hang at that level and produce, so I hope that boosts his confidence going into next season.

 

[Buffdog]

My kid is entering U13 and he's a good player but by no means elite. He played on the 2nd highest out of the 6 tiers locally, I'd say that he was moderately better than average on his team but not the top player.

This year the AA club hockey starts and I'm not sure what to advise my kid. I don't think he will make the cut (especially as an 11 year old) and I don't want to set him up to fail. But on the other hand the conventional wisdom is that you should try out no matter what, because "you never know".

What is the way to go in situations like this? Just damn the torpedoes, throw down the tryout fee and have at 'er regardless of the unpleasant feelings (and possible disenchantment) that a cut would lead to? Or just go back to minor hockey and stick with the tried and true, trying to improve to better the odds for next season when he'll be one of the older kids?

I realize that getting cut is something almost everyone deals with at some point, but what I want to avoid is a situation where I throw him into a hopeless case and it alienates him from the game and diminishes his interest in playing. (To this point he has been an enthusiastic player.)

Thanks for any insight.

Ultimately it's up to your kid I guess. I'll share my son's experience, which was also in the Winnipeg Minor Hockey system

He came up with a very strong group of kids with crazy parents. Ultimately, 4 of the kids from his age group/area had decent WHL careers and a couple more played MJHL, and a bunch more in the MMJHL. He was always a "bubble kid" who was never really guaranteed a spot

This was before the combined age groups, so he played A1 at 8, 9 and 10. At 11 (your son's age), he was the last kid cut from AA. Same thing at 12 and 13. He played A1 all the way through to 14 then switched to high school in grade 10

In grade 11 his high-school team won cities. Due to covid restrictions, that was the end of his "competitive" playing career. Now he's 21 and plays beer league with his buddies from his high-school team

The TL/DR version is that everyone ends up playing beer league eventually. I always advocate for kids playing high school hockey because it's affordable, the schedule can't be beat (games done at 6:00pm on weeknights, no weekends vs 9:45pm or later games at U17) and they get to play with (and in front of) their friends

Depending on the school your kid is tracking into, he may have to come from a AA or AAA background to make the team, but often times not. If your kid wants to try out for AA and makes it, great. If not, it's a life lesson and you save a couple thousand bucks lol.

Anyway, good luck to you and your kid. Hopefully wherever he lands he ends up with a good coach and a fun team.

Last thing I'll say is that being the "go-to" guy at A1 at 13 and 14 (wore a letter, scored a bunch) was way better for my kid's overall confidence both on and off the ice than if he'd been the bottom player on a team he scratched his way on to.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Ultimately it's up to your kid I guess. I'll share my son's experience, which was also in the Winnipeg Minor Hockey system

He came up with a very strong group of kids with crazy parents. Ultimately, 4 of the kids from his age group/area had decent WHL careers and a couple more played MJHL, and a bunch more in the MMJHL. He was always a "bubble kid" who was never really guaranteed a spot

This was before the combined age groups, so he played A1 at 8, 9 and 10. At 11 (your son's age), he was the last kid cut from AA. Same thing at 12 and 13. He played A1 all the way through to 14 then switched to high school in grade 10

In grade 11 his high-school team won cities. Due to covid restrictions, that was the end of his "competitive" playing career. Now he's 21 and plays beer league with his buddies from his high-school team

The TL/DR version is that everyone ends up playing beer league eventually. I always advocate for kids playing high school hockey because it's affordable, the schedule can't be beat (games done at 6:00pm on weeknights, no weekends vs 9:45pm or later games at U17) and they get to play with (and in front of) their friends

Depending on the school your kid is tracking into, he may have to come from a AA or AAA background to make the team, but often times not. If your kid wants to try out for AA and makes it, great. If not, it's a life lesson and you save a couple thousand bucks lol.

Anyway, good luck to you and your kid. Hopefully wherever he lands he ends up with a good coach and a fun team.

Last thing I'll say is that being the "go-to" guy at A1 at 13 and 14 (wore a letter, scored a bunch) was way better for my kid's overall confidence both on and off the ice than if he'd been the bottom player on a team he scratched his way on to.

After he was cut from AA the first time, did he continue to try-out for AA in subsequent years or did he decide he preferred being on a team where he would be a top player and get more ice time?

I do agree on HS, but this is coming from someone who only played HS sports at that age, but I didnt play hockey. The issue is HS hockey is not a big thing in some places.

 

[Buffdog]

After he was cut from AA the first time, did he continue to try-out for AA in subsequent years or did he decide he preferred being on a team where he would be a top player and get more ice time?

I do agree on HS, but this is coming from someone who only played HS sports at that age, but I didnt play hockey. The issue is HS hockey is not a big thing in some places.

He went back and tried out twice, cut both times.

High school hockey is a goofy thing here in Winnipeg. A lot of decent players were taking that route if they got cut from AAA at 15 so Winnipeg Minor and AAA council changed it and added teams to keep kids there once they combined age groups. It's resulted in the most watered-down AAA league in the country. Its so bad that a group of 30 WHL scouts wrote a letter saying that they won't watch U15 games in Winnipeg because it's impossible to get a good assessment of talent

Kids make the switch from AA/AAA to high-school once they realize their dream is over and/or they meet a girl, or start liking beer, or just want to hold down a part time job and dont want to be in the ice 6 times a week. There's a $5000-$7000 difference between AAA and high school hockey as well

 

[Yukon Joe]

Last thing I'll say is that being the "go-to" guy at A1 at 13 and 14 (wore a letter, scored a bunch) was way better for my kid's overall confidence both on and off the ice than if he'd been the bottom player on a team he scratched his way on to.

Yeah so one of my kid's coaches told him "make it so they can't say no".

Which is probably a good life lesson, but also - right at the end of tryouts there are some hard calls to make. Maybe you're kid should've made it, maybe not - but anyways they're on the bubble. Even if they make it they're not likely to be a star player. at the higher level.

But man - I'm already getting butterflies in my stomach and we're like 6 weeks plus out from U15AAA tryouts (and U13AA tryouts). It's not a fun process. But I promise not to whine here if either of my kids don't make it.

 

[Buffdog]

Yeah so one of my kid's coaches told him "make it so they can't say no".

Which is probably a good life lesson, but also - right at the end of tryouts there are some hard calls to make. Maybe you're kid should've made it, maybe not - but anyways they're on the bubble. Even if they make it they're not likely to be a star player. at the higher level.

But man - I'm already getting butterflies in my stomach and we're like 6 weeks plus out from U15AAA tryouts (and U13AA tryouts). It's not a fun process. But I promise not to whine here if either of my kids don't make it.

Good luck to your kids. It can be stressful for sure

Hopefully wherever they end up they have fun and develop as hockey players and people

 

[Mattb124]

I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the politics, but I would have him do the tryout. If he gets cut, he will at least get on the radar screen of those who make the decisions which could help next year. He will likely learn where his perceived deficiencies are so he can work on them. And most importantly, it gives him an opportunity to “fail” with very little negative repercussions. If positioned correctly, it could be a valuable experience for him. This is a situation that falls under the category of “our job as parents is to prepare our kids, not to protect our kids” IMO.

 

[Slats432]

My advice as a coach might be different from parent advice.

Tryout.

1. You know the process. Second time around you will be more confident in knowing how or what things are done. (Go to the desk, pick up the jersey, give your name. Say good morning. Interact with coaches.)

2. Evaluate what your level is. (When I was a parent, I always knew where my kid sat. As long as you aren't crazy hockey parent you have a good idea where they fit.) That way if you are an early cut, mid cut, late cut, or have a brilliant tryout and make the team, you know what you need to do in season and in the offseason for the next year.

3. Create an awareness of your kid in the program. If he has a good tryout and gets released, the coaches next year will know him, and have a positive view of him as a 2nd year.

The protection from any negatives is when you explain the process, and why do you want to try out. If you are fairly confident he is going to be released, then explain all the reasons above and to go try your best, and have fun.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Definitely try out, even if you're not expecting to make it.

You'll get the experience of going through one so that future ones aren't intimidating and you know what to train for. Also gets you some face time and a chance to make an impression with coaches even if you're not picked. Basically short of costing him the chance to play on another team, there's no downside to trying out.

 

[DaveG]

Go for it. If he's serious about it even if he gets cut he'll be more familiar with the process for future seasons, and if the coaching staff is any good they'll let him know what he needs to work on this season in order to put himself in a better position to make the team next season.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. I just got back from vacation and it was nice to read the wise advice in this thread.

As most of you have suggested, I signed him up for the tryouts. I am in fact in Winnipeg and I believe that two tryout sessions are guaranteed, so if he's an early cut it will just be a couple of very expensive skates. But we will see how it goes. I like the idea that even if he doesn't make it this year, it will give my son an idea of what's expected and how it works for next year.

My son is a bit on the smaller side, so if he's going to make it to AA now or in the future, it will be through sheer hard work and determination. He just turned 11 so he is not yet at the point where he's doing any kind of serious off-ice training (weight room, running, etc.) although I'm sure that will come in time. But as you all know, that has to come from him. And I certainly won't force him to do it, if he wants to take a more relaxed approach to things and play more casually then that's fine too.

Ultimately it's up to your kid I guess. I'll share my son's experience, which was also in the Winnipeg Minor Hockey system

He came up with a very strong group of kids with crazy parents. Ultimately, 4 of the kids from his age group/area had decent WHL careers and a couple more played MJHL, and a bunch more in the MMJHL. He was always a "bubble kid" who was never really guaranteed a spot

This was before the combined age groups, so he played A1 at 8, 9 and 10. At 11 (your son's age), he was the last kid cut from AA. Same thing at 12 and 13. He played A1 all the way through to 14 then switched to high school in grade 10

In grade 11 his high-school team won cities. Due to covid restrictions, that was the end of his "competitive" playing career. Now he's 21 and plays beer league with his buddies from his high-school team

The TL/DR version is that everyone ends up playing beer league eventually. I always advocate for kids playing high school hockey because it's affordable, the schedule can't be beat (games done at 6:00pm on weeknights, no weekends vs 9:45pm or later games at U17) and they get to play with (and in front of) their friends

Depending on the school your kid is tracking into, he may have to come from a AA or AAA background to make the team, but often times not. If your kid wants to try out for AA and makes it, great. If not, it's a life lesson and you save a couple thousand bucks lol.

Anyway, good luck to you and your kid. Hopefully wherever he lands he ends up with a good coach and a fun team.

Last thing I'll say is that being the "go-to" guy at A1 at 13 and 14 (wore a letter, scored a bunch) was way better for my kid's overall confidence both on and off the ice than if he'd been the bottom player on a team he scratched his way on to.

Thanks for the advice and wisdom. I can see my son heading down that path some day. He's good enough that I can see him striving for something more competitive than local minor hockey, but it's definitely not a given that he will make AA, let alone AAA. And as you point out, he may enjoy being a key cog on a A1 team vs. a spare part on a AA team.

That said, I can definitely see him heading down the high school hockey road some day. It's an appealing blend of competitive play and compatibility with school/the rest of your life. For parents, the lower costs are nice as well. I went to the same high school as @Yukon Joe and I can see my son heading there in a few years, I think playing there (if he can make the team, ha) could be a great experience. The team was very successful when I was a student and I'm sure being on that team must have been quite something.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Re-reading this thread I was reminded of one potential down-side.

Now this might be particular just to Edmonton - this is the only area I have experience in. But here at least the AA/AAA tryouts are separate from the club level evaluations. Different organizations, different evaluators.

So the potential downside is this - your kid is a very late cut from the AA level. Kids are pretty resilient, but even the best are bound to be sad and upset if they're cut. But once you are cut you have to immediately move over to the club evaluations. The club evaluations don't care that you were trying out for AA, in fact the club evaluations may have already started. So now you run the risk that you either don't get seen as much, or at all, or if you have a bad performance due to being frustrated at being a late cut - and now you slide all the way from being a late round AA cut down to something like Tier 4.

Saw this happen last year to a goalie - late cut, but because of AA tryouts he was never seen in club scrimmages, so for some reason they put him in Tier 5. His dad was pretty upset.

AA/AAA tryouts are supposed to be finished before clubs do their process, but sometimes they seem to drag it out for the last cuts.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Re-reading this thread I was reminded of one potential down-side.

Now this might be particular just to Edmonton - this is the only area I have experience in. But here at least the AA/AAA tryouts are separate from the club level evaluations. Different organizations, different evaluators.

So the potential downside is this - your kid is a very late cut from the AA level. Kids are pretty resilient, but even the best are bound to be sad and upset if they're cut. But once you are cut you have to immediately move over to the club evaluations. The club evaluations don't care that you were trying out for AA, in fact the club evaluations may have already started. So now you run the risk that you either don't get seen as much, or at all, or if you have a bad performance due to being frustrated at being a late cut - and now you slide all the way from being a late round AA cut down to something like Tier 4.

Saw this happen last year to a goalie - late cut, but because of AA tryouts he was never seen in club scrimmages, so for some reason they put him in Tier 5. His dad was pretty upset.

AA/AAA tryouts are supposed to be finished before clubs do their process, but sometimes they seem to drag it out for the last cuts.

That's a good point.

Locally in my area, at least, there seems to be some degree of integration between A local minor hockey and the AA/AAA club teams. My local minor hockey association put together a series of flowcharts attempting to illustrate the process here:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

But even with that attempt at integration, there is no question that there's some degree of risk, as you point out, in that AA cuts will be showing up late for A minor hockey tryouts (narrowing their window for evaluation) and maybe not in the best frame of mind depending on what happened at AA tryouts.

I have to admit that if my kid gets bounced from AA tryouts down to A2 (the third and fourth tiers) or even A3, I'm not sure how he'd take that. He might roll with it, but it could stomp out his enthusiasm altogether, I'm not sure.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I should be clear that risk I mentioned happens to a very small number of kids. But I've seen it happen once or twice.

 

[Slats432]

I should be clear that risk I mentioned happens to a very small number of kids. But I've seen it happen once or twice.

It is more inherent with goalies than players. In the federation level there is a zero benefit for putting a tier 1 kid in tier 5 and have them score 150 points.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It is more inherent with goalies than players. In the federation level there is a zero benefit for putting a tier 1 kid in tier 5 and have them score 150 points.

Well of course - nobody wants to have a kid tiered incorrectly, and everybody is trying to make sure that doesn't happen.

I've just noticed this small possibility of a kid good enough to be a late cut at a AA/AAA level, but then slide.

As I understand it the same risk is at the highest levels. Kid is a very late cut at AAA. He gets moved down to AA, but at this point the team is mostly set. The AAA late cut isn't guaranteed a spot at AA. He gets a tryout or two but if he doesn't impress he can keep sliding down to club hockey, again despite having enough skill to be a late AAA cut. I think this can even happen in junior hockey as well, although I have no experience there.

No idea what the solution is - probably isn't one. I don't think you can guarantee a late cut a spot one level down.

 

[Slats432]

Well of course - nobody wants to have a kid tiered incorrectly, and everybody is trying to make sure that doesn't happen.

I've just noticed this small possibility of a kid good enough to be a late cut at a AA/AAA level, but then slide.

As I understand it the same risk is at the highest levels. Kid is a very late cut at AAA. He gets moved down to AA, but at this point the team is mostly set. The AAA late cut isn't guaranteed a spot at AA. He gets a tryout or two but if he doesn't impress he can keep sliding down to club hockey, again despite having enough skill to be a late AAA cut. I think this can even happen in junior hockey as well, although I have no experience there.

No idea what the solution is - probably isn't one. I don't think you can guarantee a late cut a spot one level down.

I have never seen a late AAA cut get cut from AA.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

I should be clear that risk I mentioned happens to a very small number of kids. But I've seen it happen once or twice.

We seem to have a good system here, in which Rep tryouts are in May and the evaluations for everything else are in September. In May when the kids are finishing up their seasons is really when they’re at their best hockey-wise. There’s always a lot of rust in the fall. The only downside is that sometimes the choices in the fall for our Select level (level below Rep) are based on reputation and or how far kids went in Rep tryouts.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

I have never seen a late AAA cut get cut from AA.

I’ve only been with our organization for a few years granted, but I’ve yet to see a kid cut from our 3 Rep levels. Usually it’s the other way around: kids leave the organization and kids lower on the ladder move up.

 

[Neutrinos]

It is far more fun to be the big fish in a small pond...

Put him in a tier where he can shine