To Make Whole or Make Partial -- THAT is the question (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXV

[ThirdManIn]

If those workers are so important in all of this why is there never any mention of them from either side?

Both sides will suffer if teams are contracted and it takes years for the revenues to return like I stated in my original post.

Because no one cares about the plight of ticket reps and others who work for teams at relatively low salaries?

You're hoping that jobs are lost to punish hockey players while ignoring that even more jobs will be lost that affect people who are not involved in these negotiations at all. If teams are contracted then yes, some hockey players will be out of work... in the NHL. Those average workers will largely be out of work in hockey in general, and all because of a dispute they had nothing to do with.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Good that someone brought this to daylight. I'm not familiar with the exact facts and figures but it sounds reasonable. What I suppose, that it's not business at all. Oligarchs and other businessmen have their hobbies. Sports and hockey is one of them.

We've seen businessmen buying forexample English Premiere League clubs (soccer) and turned them to Premiere League champs and Champions League winners. Still I don't know if it's business or what it is.

I don't know if there's someone here, who knows this subject more closely and could comment, how it's really done in KHL?

Who cares in the end.

I'm at the point where I just want these players to get hammered so badly that they come crawling back on their hands and knees.

Shut the league down for two years. Three. Have all these brats who have it so good right now uproot their families, move them to the other side of the world, and while they're on an 8 hour plane ride for a road game in Siberia, they can think about the good old days when guys made over 500K a year to be a healthy scratch half the time.

 

[Shrimper]

wow, love your optimism...after yesterday, I am not so sure...

What are you basing this on?

They'll spend the weekend convening amongst themselves and maybe each other and then meet half-way after discussing it next week. 50/50 1st year and $250m in Make Whole.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

74% of 2b is less than 1.5b
57% of 3.3b is 1.83b
50% of 4.5b is 2.25b

Have their player costs decreased?

Seriously?

"In relative terms" is in the post you just quoted!

 

[LadyStanley]

The AHL games in Abbotsford, BC last night and tonight are sold out also. The AHL team in Abbotsford is the Calgary Flames farm team, and they are facing the Edmonton Oilers farm team with RNH.

Friday's game was sold out like 3 days before the puck drop (based on what the radio guys were saying during the game). A first time (ever) sold out so long before game.

Back-to-back games sold out does not seem to be a normal thing for Abbotsford.

So, the lockout seems to be increasing the interest with the team.

(Another interesting point from the radio last night... the closest AHL team to Abbotsford is OKC.)

 

[Freudian]

Friday's game was sold out like 3 days before the puck drop (based on what the radio guys were saying during the game). A first time (ever) sold out so long before game.

Back-to-back games sold out does not seem to be a normal thing for Abbotsford.

So, the lockout seems to be increasing the interest with the team.

(Another interesting point from the radio last night... the closest AHL team to Abbotsford is OKC.)

I think it's sold out because there are a lot of Oiler fans traveling there to watch. I wouldn't interpret it was increased general interest in AHL.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

I honestly believe the only way the NHL will get a deal done is once this year is cancelled.

Hate the owners, Bettman all you like, but Donald Fehr's brainwashing of the players and unwillingness to negotiate is the reason we aren't seeing hockey.

 

[Shrimper]

I just don't understand how all of a sudden the "cone of silence" appears to willingly have been shattered from both sides.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

I just don't understand how all of a sudden the "cone of silence" appears to willingly have been shattered from both sides.

Its the most concerning development of the last few days, in my opinion.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

I just don't understand how all of a sudden the "cone of silence" appears to willingly have been shattered from both sides.

You clearly don't know how Donald Fehr operates then.

 

[stuffradio]

Friday's game was sold out like 3 days before the puck drop (based on what the radio guys were saying during the game). A first time (ever) sold out so long before game.

Back-to-back games sold out does not seem to be a normal thing for Abbotsford.

So, the lockout seems to be increasing the interest with the team.

(Another interesting point from the radio last night... the closest AHL team to Abbotsford is OKC.)

No it's not normal. I attend the University right beside the rink. They're lucky to fill most of the building. The city has to subsidize the revenue losses, because people are more interested in staying in Vancouver and watching Canucks than going to Abbotsford and watching the Heat.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

You clearly don't know how Donald Fehr operates then.

Many if not most of the leaks yesterday to the press came from the NHL side...

 

[Barrie22]

Friday's game was sold out like 3 days before the puck drop (based on what the radio guys were saying during the game). A first time (ever) sold out so long before game.

Back-to-back games sold out does not seem to be a normal thing for Abbotsford.

So, the lockout seems to be increasing the interest with the team.

(Another interesting point from the radio last night... the closest AHL team to Abbotsford is OKC.)

this brings up the point that if the nhl went with replacement players (would be mostly ahl players), that they wouldn't be able to sell out.

one thing that replacement players would prove though is what citys are truely hockey city's and what city's are bandwagon city's.

 

[Shrimper]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

 

[ThirdManIn]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

I believe that depends on who you ask...

 

[Kings4thecup]

Seriously?

"In relative terms" is in the post you just quoted!

Relative to what? The cost of the tank of gasoline I just purchased?

Do you think the owners cost have been stagnent? That's the whole jist of the negotiation. What was the reported cost of the Winter Classic this year? The same as the first one? All costs go up over time.

The owners provide a vehicle for the players to make a great living showcasing their talents. The players deserve a great salary based on the revenue the owners bring in. Are you saying they are not receiving a great salary for the service they provide?

If the owners are profitable across the board, they will able to continually grow the product, then enabling the players to make even a greater salary over time(just like my origional post showed).

The standard for player percentage based on other sports seems to be around 50%. That seems fair in most people's minds. I'm not on the owner's or player's side. I'm on the side of being able to watch NHL hockey. Get a fair deal done that is profitable for both sides and let's drop the puck. Fair?

 

[Zibanejad]

I don't know if there's someone here, who knows this subject more closely and could comment, how it's really done in KHL?

It's not business I already replied just before your answer...

 

[mossey3535]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

It's true but not true. Fehr tells the NHLPA everything...that he wants them to hear.

Like "Ok they offered make whole...but it doesn't cover our salaries."

So...how does it not cover the salaries? What are his plans going forward to do so? Why won't he negotiate off the Make Whole? What, in his opinion, are the chances the NHL will agree to a system with guaranteed raises from $1.8B share?

So technically he keeps the players informed, but he knowingly lumps them all into one boat and constantly leaves out specifics.

Again, if I was a player, I would demand to see my specific numbers for every single proposal tabled by both sides.

I really think the players bit off more than they could chew here. They went out and tried to buy an attack dog and found out that it was a hellhound that is determined to maul them AND their opponent.

 

[mdurbin1234]

Mathieu Darche‏@matdarche52

Those reports that PA is withholding info is the most ridiculous rumour/accusation of this whole process. PA couldn't be more transparent.

 

[LadyStanley]

kevin_mcgran 10:46am via TweetDeck
NHLPA strategy appears to be -- since they are in full concession mode -- hold out for as long as you can and make NHL come to you.

kevin_mcgran 10:46am via TweetDeck
It ain't a bad strategy, because the NHL appears to be coming to them #NHL #NHLPA #lockout



http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...icant-gap-remains-in-negotiations-with-owners
McGran article from Friday night

 

[stuffradio]

Friday's game was sold out like 3 days before the puck drop (based on what the radio guys were saying during the game). A first time (ever) sold out so long before game.

Back-to-back games sold out does not seem to be a normal thing for Abbotsford.

So, the lockout seems to be increasing the interest with the team.

(Another interesting point from the radio last night... the closest AHL team to Abbotsford is OKC.)

To add to what I said before, the Heat games only sell out, or are close to selling out when big rivals come to town. For example, when the Chicago Wolves (Canucks farm team) face the Heat. When that happens, a lot of people want to watch our boys. There is not tons of support for the Heat because it loses a lot of money still. The other problem is there are other junior teams in Vancouver that have people attending the games. So people would rather stay there instead of driving the 40-60 minutes each way it takes to get to Abbotsford.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Relative to what? The cost of the tank of gasoline I just purchased?

Do you think the owners cost have been stagnent? That's the whole jist of the negotiation. What was the reported cost of the Winter Classic this year? The same as the first one? All costs go up over time.

The owners provide a vehicle for the players to make a great living showcasing their talents. The players deserve a great salary based on the revenue the owners bring in. Are you saying they are not receiving a great salary for the service they provide?

If the owners are profitable across the board, they will able to continually grow the product, then enabling the players to make even a greater salary over time(just like my origional post showed).

The standard for player percentage based on other sports seems to be around 50%. That seems fair in most people's minds. I'm not on the owner's or player's side. I'm on the side of being able to watch NHL hockey. Get a fair deal done that is profitable for both sides and let's drop the puck. Fair?

Unfortunately, 95% of players don't care about the health of the business they're in, just about how much they can get and for how long.

 

[NewBoysClub97*]

Just stop investing emotion bud. Look at it like this. They fight over percentages of money they get from us fans, and they're going to get 100 percent of zero from me, my family and all of my friends for years. We're sick of this garbage and this is not how a professional league is run. Fehr has zero invested in hockey. All he cares about is his legacy and the PA is blindly following him down a black hole.

The thing is, Fehr already has a legacy. He has been a successful man.

I think he doesn't care at all about anything besides the CBA, which he should care about. He doesn't care about the NHL, the long term health of it, etc. That is what's scary.

A guy who does not care about things is the most dangerous guy to deal with.

 

[colchar]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

How can there be any truth to it when players are in on the meetings and, as members of the union, are allowed to speak while sitting at the table? Those players will obviously talk to other players and tell them what went on - those who are not present don't need Fehr to find out what happened in meetings. And any player who chooses to can attend meetings at the union's expense and can see exactly what is being said on any given day. With an open policy such as that how can there be any truth to the league's claim? If Fehr was hiding anything the players sitting in the room with him could speak out about it but that hasn't happened has it? Owners are not allowed to attend. Heck, owners are not even allowed to speak out about the situation. But players can, and do, attend the meetings and are free to speak about the situation if they so choose. Based on that, which side is being more open here?

On Hockey Central last night they were saying that there was absolutely no truth to the league's claim that Fehr is misleading players. They also said that the players went into yesterday's meeting prepared to make a deal. They thought they were only $180-$210 million apart and their position was that that was no big deal so let's just split the difference and get this done - pretty simple really. Despite that, as the meeting progressed and the NHL started discussing actual numbers, it became apparent that the two sides were about $900 million apart and that is why things tanked.

 

[Butch 19]

I just don't understand how all of a sudden the "cone of silence" appears to willingly have been shattered from both sides.

Do posters under the age of 30 even get the "cone of silence" reference?

There's a 99 joke in there somewhere (no, not that 99).