To Make Whole or Make Partial -- THAT is the question (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXV

[Blackhawkswincup]

kevin_mcgran 10:46am via TweetDeck
NHLPA strategy appears to be -- since they are in full concession mode -- hold out for as long as you can and make NHL come to you.

kevin_mcgran 10:46am via TweetDeck
It ain't a bad strategy, because the NHL appears to be coming to them #NHL #NHLPA #lockout



http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...icant-gap-remains-in-negotiations-with-owners
McGran article from Friday night

NHLPA also risks losing everything by holding out for too long

Situation changes with every day lost

 

[Kings4thecup]

Unfortunately, 95% of players don't care about the health of the business their in, just about how much they can get and for how long.

Totally agree. Maybe not 95%, but the line share. And Fehr pushing the envelope on every detail is what seems to be dragging this out so long. He keeps waiting out the owners, and the owners are forced to cave more just to keep the talks progressing. I'm not saying Fehr is doing a bad job for his side, I'm just saying I'm sick of waiting and they just need to come to an agreement.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

Not one player or "unnamed" players source said it to be true. While many have said the PA lets any player join meeting or conference calls.

 

[Riptide]

God I hate Fehr sometimes. I've disliked how he's handled the negotiations from the start (basically ignoring the NHL and delaying as long as possible), and I really hate some of these comments that are there for sound bytes only. As if somehow the PA is superior to the NHL as they allow everyone to come into the meetings. If the NHL owners were not happy with the info they were getting, things would be changing pretty damn quick.

"Owners can't come to meetings when they want to to hear stuff directly but every single player can at the union's expense," said Fehr. "He can come and hear for himself, make the judgments, and all the rest of it."

 

[stuffradio]

Do posters under the age of 30 even get the "cone of silence" reference?

There's a 99 joke in there somewhere (no, not that 99).

Yes, I know who Maxwell Smart is. I used to watch that show a lot. I had TV channels that played a lot of old shows, and I watched a lot of them. Andy Griffith Show, Gilligan's Island, Happy Days, etc. I have watched a lot of the good old shows.

 

[BostonAJ]

They will not get a nickel from me if they play this year. I will watch the games, but I will not buy any merchandise nor pay for any tickets nor will I get Central Ice nor will I buy a video game. It's important that they learn that it's OUR money that they're fighting over.

 

[colchar]

It's true but not true. Fehr tells the NHLPA everything...that he wants them to hear.

So technically he keeps the players informed, but he knowingly lumps them all into one boat and constantly leaves out specifics.

This is simply not true. There are players in the meetings, who can obviously tell any other player who asks exactly what went on, and any player in the league is welcome to attend at the union's expense. How can Fehr be hiding anything when players are sitting right there at the table? Do you not think that if he was hiding something the players who were sitting five feet away from him during the meeting would speak up?

 

[MtlPenFan]

It's true but not true. Fehr tells the NHLPA everything...that he wants them to hear.

Like "Ok they offered make whole...but it doesn't cover our salaries."

So...how does it not cover the salaries? What are his plans going forward to do so? Why won't he negotiate off the Make Whole? What, in his opinion, are the chances the NHL will agree to a system with guaranteed raises from $1.8B share?

So technically he keeps the players informed, but he knowingly lumps them all into one boat and constantly leaves out specifics.

Again, if I was a player, I would demand to see my specific numbers for every single proposal tabled by both sides.

I really think the players bit off more than they could chew here. They went out and tried to buy an attack dog and found out that it was a hellhound that is determined to maul them AND their opponent.

They hired a mercenary that doesn't give a **** about the sport they're in. Say what you want about Bettman, but his job is around the clock and since the last lockout, has done a pretty good job.

PA heads are there to truly "work" only when it's time for a new CBA. We all saw how the union was concerned about player safety last year when guys were dropping like flies with concussions. But boy oh boy when it comes time to count coppers, they're all brothers.

 

[King Woodballs]

I think most people do understand the difference.

I also think that most people understand that the NHL was paying the players something like 74 percent of HRR when the revenue pool was $2 billion, and are currently paying them 57 percent when the revenue pool is $3.3 billion.

What (some) don't understand is why the owners can't turn a profit when their labor costs have decreased (in relative terms) at a time that revenues have more than doubled.

Because ALL of their expenses have gone through the roof

 

[5 Minute Major]

If, by chance, the season gets cancelled does the 50/50 come off the table as well? I have to think if the season is cancelled the NHLPA will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

[MtlPenFan]

If, by chance, the season gets cancelled does the 50/50 come off the table as well? I have to think if the season is cancelled the NHLPA will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

It better.

If there's one thing this has taught me about myself, is that I'm finally busy enough and have other stuff going on that for the first time, I don't need hockey to get through the crap winters we have here.

So at this point I pray that the "union" gets eviscerated even if there's no NHL for two years.

 

[Freudian]

Is there actually any truth in what was said about the NHLPA not telling the players everything or was that found to be bollocks?

He isn't telling the players everything. He wouldn't be doing his job if he did. He has to hold his cards close to his chest regarding most things.

There have been suggestions that Fehr in his communications with the players spins things about the NHLs proposals to make them appear worse for the players than they really are, supposedly to keep the players fighting morale high. Daly and Bettman have claimed that Fehr has characterized as ultimatums by the league to the players as things that are up for negotiations.

Of course Daly and Bettman have every reason to want players to put pressure on Fehr.

Both sides have an agenda that will influence everything they say. Swaying public opinion means more leverage.

 

[Shrimper]

Has there been any announcements on if they're meeting today?

 

[pucka lucka]

God I hate Fehr sometimes. I've disliked how he's handled the negotiations from the start (basically ignoring the NHL and delaying as long as possible), and I really hate some of these comments that are there for sound bytes only. As if somehow the PA is superior to the NHL as they allow everyone to come into the meetings. If the NHL owners were not happy with the info they were getting, things would be changing pretty damn quick.

The weird part is it doesn't matter. So he's suckered some less sophisticated thinkers into believing the PA are better people, how does that get the PA the money they've lost? This doublespeak might have mattered before games were canceled, but now?

 

[Grover]

I just don't understand how they meet for over 15 hours in 3 days and are still supposedly far apart. It doesn't seem logical to me

 

[Ilrider]

Has there been any announcements on if they're meeting today?

Lebrun said they are in communication to decide.

 

[colchar]

God I hate Fehr sometimes. I've disliked how he's handled the negotiations from the start (basically ignoring the NHL and delaying as long as possible), and I really hate some of these comments that are there for sound bytes only. As if somehow the PA is superior to the NHL as they allow everyone to come into the meetings. If the NHL owners were not happy with the info they were getting, things would be changing pretty damn quick.

No, I don't think they would. There is a small group on the owner's side that is controlling this and that little dictator Bettman won't allow anyone else to be heard.

 

[colchar]

They will not get a nickel from me if they play this year. I will watch the games, but I will not buy any merchandise nor pay for any tickets nor will I get Central Ice nor will I buy a video game. It's important that they learn that it's OUR money that they're fighting over.

If you watch games they get advertising revenue.

 

[Samzilla]

Do posters under the age of 30 even get the "cone of silence" reference?

There's a 99 joke in there somewhere (no, not that 99).

They probably do considering there was a remake just a few years ago with Anne Hathaway, Steve Carrell, and the Rock.

 

[Guardian17]

If, by chance, the season gets cancelled does the 50/50 come off the table as well? I have to think if the season is cancelled the NHLPA will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

If the season gets cancelled not only will the 50/50 come off the table I hope the NHL gets rid of guarenteed contracts like the NFL.

I think the quality of play will improve when players no their job is not guarenteed.

 

[colchar]

So he's suckered some less sophisticated thinkers into believing the PA are better people

Pardon?

 

[pucka lucka]

Another thing I am really confused about is why no one questions Fehr's true competence. His only real experience is with MLBPA. It's not a small assumption to think all his experience immediately translates to other sports he know nothing of.

 

[stuffradio]

Kevin Allen ‏@ByKevinAllen

NHL must negotiate with Donald Fehr, not attack him.

 

[pucka lucka]

Pardon?

With his nonsense about any players are allowed in negotiation sessions, but owners aren't. Does that fool you?

 

[NinthSpoke06]

The NHL's strategy should be about getting the players to vote on a proposal.

Tell everyone who will listen that he is willing to put an NHLPA offer to vote with the 30 NHL owners IF the NHLPA is willing to create a proposal using the NHL's framework including Make Whole, Contracts, revenue sharing, etc. Then from there on out votes for every counter proposal from both sides.

Not that it would really matter cause both Bettman and Fehr would likely convince the owners/player reps to tell others to vote no. But I believe a deal would get done today if the players voted.