To make the next step, what do we need?

[tarozi]

Lambert possibly if he puts on muscle and rebounds but I feel people are greatly overvaluing Chibs based on a few NHL games. His AHL production doesn't suggest top 6 scoring in the NHL.

Don't judge Chibs' production based on Moose games. That team was hoooorible and no one would look good there. I'm not sold on Lambert's offensive side. Sure his skating and speed are NHL level, but I just don't see the offense side. If he ends up being a 3rd or 4th line guy, I'd sooner use him to trade for someone that has the attributes of a Bennett.

 

[surixon]

I mean if he's 50th percentile for zone time, that seems really good for a 4th liner. Wouldn't that place him as a 2nd and 3rd line tweener? Or am I not understanding your stats

It means what %of total players in league spent more time in the offensive zone. So in Barron's case roughly half of all forwards spent more time. But this also heavily dependent on how good a team is.

For a Winnipeg Jet second line comparison Perfetti was in the 77th percentile in terms of offensive zone time and 72 percentile in the defensive zone.

The Jets as a team where in the 64 percentile in terms of offensive zone time with 42% of ES minutes in the oppositons end.

Barron spent 41.4% in the oppositons end so he was worse then the team average in terms of having the puck in the ozone.

I was just pointing this out as someone said he tilted the ice which isn't shown in the data. He holds steady on a team that tilts the ice.

 

[surixon]

Don't judge Chibs' production based on Moose games. That team was hoooorible and no one would look good there. I'm not sold on Lambert's offensive side. Sure his skating and speed are NHL level, but I just don't see the offense side. If he ends up being a 3rd or 4th line guy, I'd sooner use him to trade for someone that has the attributes of a Bennett.

It's not just last year, his numbers the prior year on the Moose and his KHL years don't scream top 6. But maybe he's one of those rare players where he produces at the NHL without a history of strong production in other men pro leagues.

 

[Daximus]

Certainly worth a shot, but a slight improvement over Names is still not the answer, especially if we lose Ehlers.

Yeah it's really just a thought to tinker around the edges until we have what we need. If it works out then great problem solved but even if it's just a slight improvement then that is still progress and we can keep our ear to the ground.

 

[bumblebeeman]

It means what %of total players in league spent more time in the offensive zone. So in Barron's case roughly half of all forwards spent more time. But this also heavily dependent on how good a team is.

For a Winnipeg Jet second line comparison Perfetti was in the 77th percentile in terms of offensive zone time and 72 percentile in the defensive zone.

The Jets as a team where in the 64 percentile in terms of offensive zone time with 42% of ES minutes in the oppositons end.

Barron spent 41.4% in the oppositons end so he was worse then the team average in terms of having the puck in the ozone.

I was just pointing this out as someone said he tilted the ice which isn't shown in the data. He holds steady on a team that tilts the ice.

Thanks, makes sense.

Anyways I'm really not worried about the Jets 4th line. Kupari, Barron, Gus all looked good this year, and a fully healthy Jets team has Iafallo on the 4th line too. Maybe one of them moves up to replace Appleton next year tho.

 

[tarozi]

It's not just last year, his numbers the prior year on the Moose and his KHL years don't scream top 6. But maybe he's one of those rare players where he produces at the NHL without a history of strong production in other men pro leagues.

I feel the same about Lambert. For the Jet's sake it would be awesome if we were both proven wrong.

 

[surixon]

I feel the same about Lambert. For the Jet's sake it would be awesome if we were both proven wrong.

Lambert's first year in the AHL suggested the possibility of it. Last year not so much.

The kid needs to work on his shot and continue to learn to get to the dangerous areas. Both are areas Chibs has him beat in atm.

 

[DRW204]

42% vs 41.4%

Oh the humanity!!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd love to see all the guys on the second line with the skill you note - but we may need to consider strengths each of them bring and assignments they can take on individually. He doesn't need to be the playmaker - even if he is a center.
IMO, he might turn into a better option than Names - and that's all I'm really saying. That line could use someone that can and will go to the net and work the walls - that type of player doesn't always end up on a defensive or checking line - sometimes they play a role or support players / lines that can score.
I think we'd all love to see a skilled center step into that role - but that might not happen. So there are other things to look at with this being a possibility.
It's easy to say we need a better center than what we have, on our second (third?) line - I get that. But I also know how hard it has been for this org / city to draw much in the way of talent at 2nd line level.

I will be surprised if he can outperform Names. But it is possible so it is worth a try.

Another 'but' though is that Barron succeeding at 2C will depend on keeping Ehlers or somehow getting a highly skilled replacement. A 2nd line of Perfetti with a 3/4 tweener C and a 3/4 tweener on the other wing is not going to be successful. Barron between Perfetti and Ehlers could work quite well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it will be a lot easier to bring in a top-end winger to replace Ehlers' production on the 2nd line than to find a top-grade 2C. With Perfetti slotted in on that line I think they need more size and speed. Maybe they can persuade Nelson to sign. If not, maybe one option is to go with a big C with great speed like Barron and try to acquire another skilled winger. Having a big C fast like Barron might also match better with a winger like Lambert or Chibrikov.

In any case, I recognize the reluctance to endorse him in that role. I wanted to see him in an elevated role over Namestnikov at times. But the more relevant factor is that I think Chevy might be intrigued with Barron getting an elevated role at C. I really don't think he brought his name into the conversation vis-a-vis a 4th line role. Barron is already in that role and Chevy was talking about younger players taking on bigger roles the way Samberg did this season.

Certainly easier to get a good winger than a C. If we lose Ehlers we will have some cap space to work with.

I'm not thrilled with the Nelson possibility. He is going to be 34 when next season starts. He might be OK for 1 or 2 years but he will probably get 4-5, and the AAV won't be low. Pretty high risk I think.

I don't know how to evaluate Lambert and Chibrikov. How much were they dragged down by a bad Moose team and how much were they what made the Moose so bad? Chibrikov at least looked good in a small sample with the Jets. Lambert, not so much.

Lambert's speed might prove valuable, or not. Chibrikov's energy might work well, or not.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it will be a lot easier to bring in a top-end winger to replace Ehlers' production on the 2nd line than to find a top-grade 2C. With Perfetti slotted in on that line I think they need more size and speed. Maybe they can persuade Nelson to sign. If not, maybe one option is to go with a big C with great speed like Barron and try to acquire another skilled winger. Having a big C fast like Barron might also match better with a winger like Lambert or Chibrikov.

In any case, I recognize the reluctance to endorse him in that role. I wanted to see him in an elevated role over Namestnikov at times. But the more relevant factor is that I think Chevy might be intrigued with Barron getting an elevated role at C. I really don't think he brought his name into the conversation vis-a-vis a 4th line role. Barron is already in that role and Chevy was talking about younger players taking on bigger roles the way Samberg did this season.

I remember Chevy talking about Perfetti as a C on several occasions. He got exactly 3 games, 2 years ago. He has progressed as a player quite a way since then. No second chance.

I take Chevy's remarks as simply being pleased with Barron as a 4C, maybe a future 3C. But who knows?

 

[surixon]

I remember Chevy talking about Perfetti as a C on several occasions. He got exactly 3 games, 2 years ago. He has progressed as a player quite a way since then. No second chance.

I take Chevy's remarks as simply being pleased with Barron as a 4C, maybe a future 3C. But who knows?

He also talked Kupari up and we saw how that went.

 

[Skidooboy]

a scoring second line center and a proper legit top 4 Dman.

 

[Flair Hay]

Our strengths in regular season:
Helle
Team defense
Special teams

Our strengths in the playoffs :
Carrying 5v5 play and limiting chances extremely well at home

Our weaknesses in the playoffs :
Special teams
Helle
late period goals or multiple goals against quickly

Roster upgrades will help, but a lot of our shortcomings are fixable. They are as much execution as roster shortcomings.

We weren't overwhelmed by a stronger roster, we just struggled elevating our game to a consistently very high level.

The only thing roster or personnel related is we need another matchup center. There has been lots of lamenting too much ice for Appleton and not enough for Ehlers. To me, a second 1C would be amazing.

But honestly, if we have another guy who can do the exact same thing as Lowry, in whatever style. But another shut down center. Someone who can play a similar role to Namestnikov, but can be trusted to win face-offs, be a big plus on the PK, and be trusted against other teams top lines.

That will save Lowry a couple mins per game and free up Scheifele line for some easier matchups. The only line we should be "sheltering" is our top line - creatively freeing them up creatively for chances to score.

Two hard matchup lines, our top line and our 4th line. And it's a lot more affordable than a second 1C is, if we can even find one..

That's my thoughts anyway

 

[10Ducky10]

Try Volare as 2C.

 

[Jetsetter]

Okay I want to step in here on Gabriel Vilardi. I see him as:
Strengths (in no particular order):
1.) Size
2.) Net presence
3.) PP specialist
4.) Reasonable speed
5.) Fairly good around the net.
6. Decent on faceoffs.

Weaknesses (in no particular order):
1.) Injury prone. I'm not sure how injured he was upon his return from injury during the playoffs. Something was missing.
1a.) I didn't see any progress in stepping up his game in the playoffs but that could be because of above.
2.) Below average in puck battles.
3.) Limited two way player. Not a pitbull on a bone.
4.) I don't see him as a happy player here. This maybe just me.

Conclusion: He could be a tradeable piece with our 1st this year, in a hunt for a player needing a chance to play up the lineup on a up and coming positive team like the Jets: a last year: Connor McMichael type of player. An unhappy Buffalo player like: Bowen Byram. A player without a top 10 list of where they just don't want to go type.

Just saying!

 

[10Ducky10]

Gabe will re-sign.
I think a 6 or 7 year deal.
7 x 6.25m?

 

[ecolad]

I'm not just stat watching. I've made notes numerous times on why I don't believe his game is suited for playing with skilled players. The players we build around in our top 6 like to change the pace of play depending on the situation, they like to use rotations and smart puck movement to break teams down. Barron plays the game at one speed and has a good amount of tunnel vision when he has the puck. Is he going to be able to see the seams our top 6 opens. Is he going to be able to get our skilled guys the puck off our rotation game? From what I've see I have a lot of doubts.

As I said earlier he has the traits and game style that if he continues to grow may allow him to replace Lowry.

I agree with your assessment of Barron`s play to date but hope springs eternal.... . It is probably realistic to think of him with potential as a 3rd line C, playing a more direct game exactly as Lowry does. The big takeaway here though should be that the org should come to grips with the notion that neither Lowry nor Barron play a game that will upgrade our 2nd line performance to what it needs to be. Not if we are truly wanting a 2nd line that can take some of the scoring pressure off the top line when the opposition gameplan around stopping them (like in the playoffs).

 

[surixon]

I agree with your assessment of Barron`s play to date but hope springs eternal.... . It is probably realistic to think of him with potential as a 3rd line C, playing a more direct game exactly as Lowry does. The big takeaway here though should be that the org should come to grips with the notion that neither Lowry nor Barron play a game that will upgrade our 2nd line performance to what it needs to be. Not if we are truly wanting a 2nd line that can take some of the scoring pressure off the top line when the opposition gameplan around stopping them (like in the playoffs).

Agreed. If they want to solve the 2C issue then go out and actually solve it. Half measures or place holders aren't going to cut it as we've seen the last number of years.

 

[LowLefty]

I agree with your assessment of Barron`s play to date but hope springs eternal.... . It is probably realistic to think of him with potential as a 3rd line C, playing a more direct game exactly as Lowry does. The big takeaway here though should be that the org should come to grips with the notion that neither Lowry nor Barron play a game that will upgrade our 2nd line performance to what it needs to be. Not if we are truly wanting a 2nd line that can take some of the scoring pressure off the top line when the opposition gameplan around stopping them (like in the playoffs).

Much of it comes down to what we have, what we need, and what we can get.
I think the org has looked and have run into a lot of walls - and I'm referring to a player that will sign and play here off a trade.

I find myself in the "what we have" slot - not because we have it covered internally, or that we shouldn't be looking for an upgrade - but more to the point that we struggle with trades at that level (top 6 players - especially at center) - and the reasons have been covered in depth.

If this is all for the sake of discussion around what we would all love to have, I can get on board with the dialogue. But pointing out that our options are not good enough, is really ignoring the fact that they may need to be good enough so find the best one - or at least try a few other options to ensure we have exhausted all options. Not saying that is where you were going with your post - the offseason, especially prior to the draft, is always a great time to fantasize.

So, as you note, hope is eternal - and that includes hoping a 2C falls into our lap - or hoping we can get more from what we already have - both are legit ways of looking at this IMO.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Oh well soon we will have the 8 million a year from Ehlers to spend on a centre position.

 

[DRW204]

Oh well soon we will have the 8 million a year from Ehlers to spend on a centre position.

The Jets can have 10 million a year, which marquee FA is coming?

 

[ERYX]

To make the next step, what do we need?​

Without looking at the 8 pages generated:

-Winning a damn game on the road

-Stellar gialtending

-Secondary scoring

I’d take goaltending that is simply above .900 sv% and I think that would be enough combined with secondary scoring to win a road game or two and improve overall results.

 

[Whileee]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'm not sure they need to make substantive changes to take the next step. What they needed was Hellebuyck to match or outplay Oettinger and the rest of the lineup to be fully healthy, including 13, 27, 55 and 44.

Biggest risk is that they take a step back with Ehlers' departure.

 

[raideralex99]

I’d take goaltending that is simply above .900 sv% and I think that would be enough combined with secondary scoring to win a road game or two and improve overall results.

I'm probably in the minority, but I'm not sure they need to make substantive changes to take the next step. What they needed was Hellebuyck to match or outplay Oettinger and the rest of the lineup to be fully healthy, including 13, 27, 55 and 44.

Biggest risk is that they take a step back with Ehlers' departure.

Seriously give it up with calling down Hellebuyck and the goaltending.
Check out the other goalies they are giving up the same type of goals. Screen shot, defections. top shelf majority of the goalies can't stop those unless its by luck.
Anderson had the best save % after 2 series now he has a .750 save %. in 2 games vs the Panthers.
Oettinger has given up the same type of goals as Helle or how was Binnington in the Worlds Canada lost because he was screened on the first goal and the second goal was top shelf.
You sound like a broken record. Helle is not the reason why the Jets were knocked out of the playoffs ... it was the lack of scoring and special teams ... remember the only 2 wins were the Helle two shutouts.