To make the next step, what do we need?

[NorthBayBattleOnion]

A true 2C and a Dman to play with JoMo and move DeMelo to 3RD
For Helly to accept fewer games in the regular season.

Dom DiVincentiis is a hell of a goalie prospect…. Great future back up?

 

[kylbaz]

Even if they had gone out in the 1st rd this year it was not like the last 2 years where they lost 4 straight. They have given up in previous years and gone out with their tails between their legs. This year, they played hard. They did not give up.

Since 2018 it has not been that they didn't win enough. It has been the meek way they lost. That was not the case this year.

That's definitely fair.

 

[kylbaz]

If Vilardi doesn't want to be here long term what about packaging him up with a top prospect and/or pick to get a good 2C with term.

Names was okay when surrounded with high level talent, but when that talent is hurt or cold, he doesn't have the skill to carry the line. You need a higher skilled guy there.

I just don't imagine Ehlers staying but I sure hope I'm wrong. Between him wanting to be a top line player and earn top line money, I just can't imagine him staying. Someone will pay him top dollar for top minutes. With the cap going up, $10M/year will be the new $7M/year.

We don't need to be the #1 team in the league next year. We know we can beat anyone. Incorporate the young guys into the line up. Sure there will be some growing pains and mistakes but they'll gain the experience and be ready for the playoffs.

 

[DRW204]

If Vilardi doesn't want to be here long term what about packaging him up with a top prospect and/or pick to get a good 2C with term.

Names was okay when surrounded with high level talent, but when that talent is hurt or cold, he doesn't have the skill to carry the line. You need a higher skilled guy there.

I just don't imagine Ehlers staying but I sure hope I'm wrong. Between him wanting to be a top line player and earn top line money, I just can't imagine him staying. Someone will pay him top dollar for top minutes. With the cap going up, $10M/year will be the new $7M/year.

We don't need to be the #1 team in the league next year. We know we can beat anyone. Incorporate the young guys into the line up. Sure there will be some growing pains and mistakes but they'll gain the experience and be ready for the playoffs.

if he doesn't want to be here long-term yeah trade him. ideally, id like to keep vilardi as he adds something a bit more unique compared to rest of our top-6.

2c is obviously going to dominate the topic of discussion for year X out of the last 7 or 8. i just am unsure what you are going to get via trade.... which team just has an extra 2C laying around for trade? & from the FA market, other than Brock Nelson . If anyone is shitting on Ehlers' UFA contract value, then it should be the same application for Nelson who will be 5 years older.

i think you can get by a top-6 line if you have 2 studs offensively and a lower-end one (which would be Names). there's a handful of examples of Jets top-6 lines that were formed this way, including one through parts of this year with iafallo/scheifele/connor. the problem is they had 1 stud at 5v5 offense, and the other 2 were close to mid or below-mid.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

getting a legit 2c would really help, so we can run Scheif-2C-Names-Lowry

Lowry is never getting 4th line ice time.
I don't know why people keep fantasizing about this.
His current status is our 2/3C.
3C in assignment but 2C in ice time.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

The first 2 items on that list have been there for a while…we’ve needed a 2C for years. I know Chevy has tried various options with differing degrees of success, but nothing has stuck as yet. It’s by far our biggest need. The top 2 RHD we’ve needed since Buff left and we will never be able to replace all of what he brought to the team and the ice. I don’t really expect much done in this area though with Salo likely being close to moving up and the way Pionk and Samberg have clicked this season. I think it very possible Chevy lets the D ride, unless he stumbles across a deal he just can’t refuse.

The only realistic 2C that someone would trade us without an over payment is someone that likely has just a year or two left on their contract or they have some version of a NMC (ie the trade can be blocked). OR we take a risk on someone who has performed in the past but has slid enough in a negative way that the team is willing to move on from them. That last one is a risky gamble that could easily backfire. Lambert/Yager etc... are all more than a season away from being able to help.
The Jets need this NOW. Getting that player in FA this summer is almost impossible so then we'd need to make a pretty significant trade which then likely weakens our roster in another way (unless the trade is all futures based).

All this to say the reason this problem has existed for so long is this is really hard to find.
There's a reason so many players who played C through their career have to transition to the wing to make it in the NHL.
Yager's WJHC play gave me more vibes of a shutdown bottom 6 C than a scoring top 6 C.

 

[Whileee]

If the Jets lose Ehlers, they are going to need to find a way to replace his speed at forward. Arniel's system really thrives on speed and pressure, and they have a few slow forwards. That's partly why Appleton continued to get ice time... his speed created pressure and closed gaps for opponents.

So, based on watching, and confirmed by NHL Edge stars...

Burners (top 2-5% in the NHL)

Kupari
Barron
Ehlers

Fast (top 15%)

Lowry
Appleton

Above Average (top 40%)

Iafallo
Connor
Namestnikov

Slow (below 50%)

Scheifele
Perfetti
Nino
Vilardi

Interesting to hear the Jets high command mention Barron's switch to C as a significant development. I wonder if a full training camp and season at C will probably give him the opportunity to develop into a middle-6 C. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL and has tremendous size. Would love to see him emerge like late bloomers such as Marchment.

 

[LowLefty]

If the Jets lose Ehlers, they are going to need to find a way to replace his speed at forward. Arniel's system really thrives on speed and pressure, and they have a few slow forwards. That's partly why Appleton continued to get ice time... his speed created pressure and closed gaps for opponents.

So, based on watching, and confirmed by NHL Edge stars...

Burners (top 2-5% in the NHL)

Kupari
Barron
Ehlers

Fast (top 15%)

Lowry
Appleton

Above Average (top 40%)

Iafallo
Connor
Namestnikov

Slow (below 50%)

Scheifele
Perfetti
Nino
Vilardi

Interesting to hear the Jets high command mention Barron's switch to C as a significant development. I wonder if a full training camp and season at C will probably give him the opportunity to develop into a middle-6 C. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL and has tremendous size. Would love to see him emerge like late bloomers such as Marchment.

I'd love to see Barron make another step as he has this season - he'd make a great 2/3C of he can further develop a scoring touch.
Love the way he drives to the net - love his power game. Great size and wheels as you have noted - just need a bit more scoring.
I would not be surprised if he is the orgs hope for that C spot they want to fill - probably a better chance for that over hoping we pick one up via the market.

 

[surixon]

I'd love to see Barron make another step as he has this season - he'd make a great 2/3C of he can further develop a scoring touch.
Love the way he drives to the net - love his power game. Great size and wheels as you have noted - just need a bit more scoring.
I would not be surprised if he is the orgs hope for that C spot they want to fill - probably a better chance for that over hoping we pick one up via the market.

I don't understand people's fascination with this player. He put up 15 points last year after scoring 18 the year before. He hasnt progressed at all in terms of offense and at 26 thinking he's going to magically be able to jump from being an adequate 4C to a 2C is the definition of wishful thinking.

 

[Whileee]

I don't understand people's fascination with this player. He put up 15 points last year after scoring 18 the year before. He hasnt progressed at all in terms of offense and at 26 thinking he's going to magically be able to jump from being an adequate 4C to a 2C is the definition of wishful thinking.

He's played almost exclusively with 4th liners, so you can't really expect him to produce offense in those circumstances. Still, he produced at a similar rate (per 60 minutes, 5v5) as Nino, Appleton, Namestnikov. Seems likely that he'd produce more if he was playing with higher quality linemates, don't you think?

Also, this was his first year at C, so he had some adjustments. I'm not sure he's the answer at 2C by any means, but I think he can add to the middle 6. It certainly seems that Jets management and coaches liked what they saw from him at C as he was specifically mentioned in the year-end presser.

 

[Daximus]

I don't understand people's fascination with this player. He put up 15 points last year after scoring 18 the year before. He hasnt progressed at all in terms of offense and at 26 thinking he's going to magically be able to jump from being an adequate 4C to a 2C is the definition of wishful thinking.

He's a f***ing huge C that skates well, hits, plays decent defensively and is good on the dot.

He's kind of everything we want in a 2C minus the production. I think people, myself included, just want to see how he can handle playing bigger minutes with better players. 4th line is all about straight lines, hit, get the puck up ice, dump it in, forecheck hard and try and gain back possession. It would be interesting to see how his game changes when the assignment is less about hitting everything in sight and ramming the puck into the opposing teams corners to hammer their defencemen and more about getting set up to make a play.

Yeah he does play a bit of a straight line lone wolf style with the puck as far as we've seen but he also hasn't had players to work the puck with so far. I could easily see him producing at least as well as Names has in a 2C role, while being better on the dot.

 

[Whileee]

He's a f***ing huge C that skates well, hits, plays decent defensively and is good on the dot.

He's kind of everything we want in a 2C minus the production. I think people, myself included, just want to see how he can handle playing bigger minutes with better players. 4th line is all about straight lines, hit, get the puck up ice, dump it in, forecheck hard and try and gain back possession. It would be interesting to see how his game changes when the assignment is less about hitting everything in sight and ramming the puck into the opposing teams corners to hammer their defencemen and more about getting set up to make a play.

Yeah he does play a bit of a straight line lone wolf style with the puck as far as we've seen but he also hasn't had players to work the puck with so far. I could easily see him producing at least as well as Names has in a 2C role, while being better on the dot.

Exactly how I'm thinking. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL and he's 6'4" and 220, and opponents have a really hard time handling him on the rush and along the boards. I think he has room to improve. Might really help a smaller / slower wing like Perfetti with his speed and physical dominance.

 

[Daximus]

Exactly how I'm thinking. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL and he's 6'4" and 220, and opponents have a really hard time handling him on the rush and along the boards. I think he has room to improve. Might really help a smaller / slower wing like Perfetti with his speed and physical dominance.

Yeah he's great along the boards and in the corners, honestly better in that regard than Names is. I think there is a lot of potential there. He is 26 but it's not unheard of for players to break out later when given a chance. it's not like he's 33 and on the edge of a decline. That 2nd line really needs a power forward type of player that can go to war for them in the trenches. Come out with the puck and get it to the middle of the ice or up to the points. They often struggle immensely with trying to win board battles against bigger Dcores. Though they do win a fair amount on their skill alone. But I think Barron would improve those odds a lot.

 

[Buffdog]

Since 2016, the most goals Barron has scored in any league at any level in a single season is 15. Guys like that don't all of a sudden break out offensively at 26 years old

To be fair, Names isnt all that much better. He had 30 in the OHL one year and 20 in Tampa Bay once

 

[Whileee]

Since 2016, the most goals Barron has scored in any league at any level in a single season is 15. Guys like that don't all of a sudden break out offensively at 26 years old

To be fair, Names isnt all that much better. He had 30 in the OHL one year and 20 in Tampa Bay once

He played in the NCAA, which low-scoring and has a low number of games. He led his NCAA team in scoring in his last two years in college and in his AHL team in his rookie season, in an abbreviated season.

So he has been in an offensive lead role on teams when he was younger, but hasn't really had that opportunity at the NHL level.

I think a key development was his shift to C this season, and the comments from Chevy that it might be an important development for the roster going forward.

 

[Buffdog]

He played in the NCAA, which low-scoring and has a low number of games. He led his NCAA team in scoring in his last two years in college and in his AHL team in his rookie season, in an abbreviated season.

So he has been in an offensive lead role on teams when he was younger, but hasn't really had that opportunity at the NHL level.

I think a key development was his shift to C this season, and the comments from Chevy that it might be an important development for the roster going forward.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have some offensive upside. It's just not 2C levels, and he's not the answer there.

I could see him taking on more of a Lowry type role, though. I agree that I loked what I saw from him at centre, and he fits the mold for a really good bottom six guy there

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Lots of wishful thinking in this thread about Barron.

 

[KingBogo]

If the Jets lose Ehlers, they are going to need to find a way to replace his speed at forward. Arniel's system really thrives on speed and pressure, and they have a few slow forwards. That's partly why Appleton continued to get ice time... his speed created pressure and closed gaps for opponents.

So, based on watching, and confirmed by NHL Edge stars...

Burners (top 2-5% in the NHL)

Kupari
Barron
Ehlers

Fast (top 15%)

Lowry
Appleton

Above Average (top 40%)

Iafallo
Connor
Namestnikov

Slow (below 50%)

Scheifele
Perfetti
Nino
Vilardi

Interesting to hear the Jets high command mention Barron's switch to C as a significant development. I wonder if a full training camp and season at C will probably give him the opportunity to develop into a middle-6 C. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL and has tremendous size. Would love to see him emerge like late bloomers such as Marchment.

Can you give more detail on this. Pretty sure Connor would destroy Lowry on a 1 on 1 race boards to boards.

 

[Whileee]

Can you give more detail on this. Pretty sure Connor would destroy Lowry on a 1 on 1 race boards to boards.

I realize I was looking at the Playoffs measures (Lowry was 93rd percentile in top speed).

In the regular season they are pretty close, which is remarkable considering Lowry's size.

Barron is at another level in top speed, though.

 

[Whileee]

Lots of wishful thinking in this thread about Barron.

Sure it is. Be t I think it's based on some thinking in the Jets' management and coaching, based on Chevy's comments.

 

[surixon]

I realize I was looking at the Playoffs measures (Lowry was 93rd percentile in top speed).

In the regular season they are pretty close, which is remarkable considering Lowry's size.

Barron is at another level in top speed, though.
View attachment 1040815View attachment 1040816

My biggest question on this is how much is role playing a part in these figures. Most in our top 6 don't play an out and out speed game. They tend to like to slow play things and wait for an opening. So imo they wouldn't burst to the same extent as our bottom 6 that predominantly play a hard and fast forecheck game.

It does show why our bottom 6 was strong on the forecheck all year.

 

[surixon]

Sure it is. Be t I think it's based on some thinking in the Jets' management and coaching, based on Chevy's comments.

Or people are reading too much into it and they feel they have their ideal fourth line center now. Big, gritty and quick. I.e Kupari with size.

 

[DRW204]

Looking just at top speed which is a single-time measurement, probably doesn't tell much of who plays faster shift-by-shift. Frequency of hitting of one of the speed tiers (middle of 20 mph probably makes sense?) i think is a bit more indicative of who plays fast. None of this really contradicts Barron's penchant for speed though, as he rates pretty well in both.

the Top Speed is a truncated scale, but everyone for a single-time measurement is within 3.5 mph, or ~5.5 km/h from each other. the frequency of hitting a threshold over an entire season is probably more representative of the pace players play at.

and if you were to express into full numbers instead of gp rates...

ie: Iafallo, Names, Scheifele, Lowry and Connor are kind of all in the same tier of a single-time top-speed measurement, but Connor i'd say is playing at a faster pace shift-to-shit than all of them.

Kupar
Perfetti, Vilardi

 

[Whileee]

Or people are reading too much into it and they feel they have their ideal fourth line center now. Big, gritty and quick. I.e Kupari with size.

Perhaps, but I thought it interesting that Chevy brought up Barron when he was talking about younger players taking a step forward as Samberg had moved into the top 4 this season, and in the context of their summer plans. Chevy said that Barron shifting to C was an "interesting" development in their organizational considerations. Not sure he would have come to mind in that line of thinking if it was just about finding a possible upgrade at 4C.

 

[surixon]

Perhaps, but I thought it interesting that Chevy brought up Barron when he was talking about younger players taking a step forward as Samberg had moved into the top 4 this season, and in the context of their summer plans. Chevy said that Barron shifting to C was an "interesting" development in their organizational considerations. Not sure he would have come to mind in that line of thinking if it was just about finding a possible upgrade at 4C.

We shall see moving forward, but they have also been looking for an everyday 4C for a while now. They tried to make Kupari work there all year even though Gus out played him last year and arguably in his stints this year as well. Low and behold an injury gives them the opportunity to move Barron there and he has many of the same traits as the player they were trying force into the role but is bigger and grittier. All things they have long valued for that role.

Maybe he is able move up at some point but I'd peg them as thinking he's more likely Lowry's future replacement for 3C a couple years down the line.