To make the next step, what do we need?

[Whileee]

We shall see moving forward, but they have also been looking for an everyday 4C for a while now. They tried to make Kupari work there all year even though Gus out played him last year and arguably in his stints this year as well. Low and behold an injury gives them the opportunity to move Barron there and he has many of the same traits as the player they were trying force into the role but is bigger and grittier. All things they have long valued for that role.

Maybe he is able move up at some point but I'd peg them as thinking he's more likely Lowry's future replacement for 3C a couple years down the line.

That might be realistic, but I still doubt Chevy was thinking about solidifying 4C in that comment.

 

[PhilJets]

Normal playing time!!!! and don't revolve around whenever Toronto or Big Easter team city is playing.

White Jersey for home ice!!!

Growth more by Perfetti , Samberg as its difficult to get grade A players from free agency.

then these two kids breaks the door down and makes it hard for the Jets to send them back down.

Lambert rotating in line 2 as winger and Center in line 4

Salomonsson 3rd pairing D

1	Elias Salomonsson	RHD
2	Brad Lambert	C/RW

 

[LowLefty]

I don't understand people's fascination with this player. He put up 15 points last year after scoring 18 the year before. He hasnt progressed at all in terms of offense and at 26 thinking he's going to magically be able to jump from being an adequate 4C to a 2C is the definition of wishful thinking.

Watch him play and spend less time reading the numbers.
His game is better - and in the PO's, he was one of the few that would take the puck to the net - with speed and power. If he continues to grow a game that includes those assets, he could be better (maybe even a lot better) than we saw last year or even as recently as this year.
He's a 4th line player - he's not going to be piling up the points with the guys he is playing with - which at times, was a revolving door.

But he needs to be better - and I noted that. But he looked to me like a guy that might be starting a bit of a breakout.
You and I don't know where he'll end up - but I saw some stuff that looks good and if there is still some growth to come, he has the basic size / speed to be a very good asset.

Assuming we will continue fishing for 2C's, he might be a guy that can do what Names does, only better - especially with a couple of small wingers.
I'm not saying he is the answer to all our prayers - and I don't bother building wish lists of all the centers that would be great here but will likely never be here.
IMO, that's wishful thinking

 

[Daximus]

I'm not saying that he doesn't have some offensive upside. It's just not 2C levels, and he's not the answer there.

I could see him taking on more of a Lowry type role, though. I agree that I loked what I saw from him at centre, and he fits the mold for a really good bottom six guy there

We shall see moving forward, but they have also been looking for an everyday 4C for a while now. They tried to make Kupari work there all year even though Gus out played him last year and arguably in his stints this year as well. Low and behold an injury gives them the opportunity to move Barron there and he has many of the same traits as the player they were trying force into the role but is bigger and grittier. All things they have long valued for that role.

Maybe he is able move up at some point but I'd peg them as thinking he's more likely Lowry's future replacement for 3C a couple years down the line.

I think it all comes down to could he be better in that role than Names currently is? Is he the lord and saviour top 6 C we have been waiting for? Probably not but for the time being maximizing the roster we have in the best way possible is what we should be doing anyways so I don't see the harm in trying him there. Worst that happens is he doesn't fit and we move him back down to 4C. But you might as well give it a good look just to be sure that you aren't missing out on the possible best case scenario.

I'm hoping the Jets at least give him a decent look next year to give it a try.

 

[CanMerc]

Chevy commenting on Barron as a C scares me…makes me think they plan on running with Names at 2C next season and plugging Barron in the 4C slot

 

[surixon]

Watch him play and spend less time reading the numbers.
His game is better - and in the PO's, he was one of the few that would take the puck to the net - with speed and power. If he continues to grow a game that includes those assets, he could be better (maybe even a lot better) than we saw last year or even as recently as this year.
He's a 4th line player - he's not going to be piling up the points with the guys he is playing with - which at times, was a revolving door.

But he needs to be better - and I noted that. But he looked to me like a guy that might be starting a bit of a breakout.
You and I don't know where he'll end up - but I saw some stuff that looks good and if there is still some growth to come, he has the basic size / speed to be a very good asset.

Assuming we will continue fishing for 2C's, he might be a guy that can do what Names does, only better - especially with a couple of small wingers.
I'm not saying he is the answer to all our prayers - and I don't bother building wish lists of all the centers that would be great here but will likely never be here.
IMO, that's wishful thinking

I'm not just stat watching. I've made notes numerous times on why I don't believe his game is suited for playing with skilled players. The players we build around in our top 6 like to change the pace of play depending on the situation, they like to use rotations and smart puck movement to break teams down. Barron plays the game at one speed and has a good amount of tunnel vision when he has the puck. Is he going to be able to see the seams our top 6 opens. Is he going to be able to get our skilled guys the puck off our rotation game? From what I've see I have a lot of doubts.

As I said earlier he has the traits and game style that if he continues to grow may allow him to replace Lowry.

 

[braunm]

We need:
1. Legit 2C
2. Legit Back up Goaltender (20-25 games)

 

[surixon]

We need:
1. Legit 2C
2. Legit Back up Goaltender (20-25 games)

I think at this point we should know that it doesn't matter who the BU is Helle will play the amount of games he wants to play. I also imagine having Helle as your starter scares good backups away as they know they won't get the starts they want.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I don't understand people's fascination with this player. He put up 15 points last year after scoring 18 the year before. He hasnt progressed at all in terms of offense and at 26 thinking he's going to magically be able to jump from being an adequate 4C to a 2C is the definition of wishful thinking.

You didn't notice a major difference in his game at the end of the year when he switched to C?
He scored a few beautiful goals and had a huge one in the playoffs that was taken off the board because Appleton had his head up his butt and was standing offside for no reason.

 

[surixon]

You didn't notice a major difference in his game at the end of the year when he switched to C?
He scored a few beautiful goals and had a huge one in the playoffs that was taken off the board because Appleton had his head up his butt and was standing offside for no reason.

He scores a few beautiful goals every year, and has stretches of play every year exactly like he had last year. We have this same conversation on him during these stretches every year.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

He scores a few beautiful goals every year, and has stretches of play every year exactly like he had last year. We have this same conversation on him during these stretches every year.

I've never thought he played as well or as effective as he has since he became a C.
His stints covering for Lowry on the 3rd line looked good.
He gets the puck to the other teams end of the ice and helps to keep it there.
That is a very valuable skill set.

 

[surixon]

I've never thought he played as well or as effective as he has since he became a C.
His stints covering for Lowry on the 3rd line looked good.
He gets the puck to the other teams end of the ice and helps to keep it there.
That is a very valuable skill set.

The data would indicate that he doesn't actually do that. He's in around the 50th percentile on offensive and defensive zone time. So negligible ability to tilt the oce at best.

 

[bumblebeeman]

The data would indicate that he doesn't actually do that. He's in around the 50th percentile on offensive and defensive zone time. So negligible ability to tilt the oce at best.

That would be pretty good for a 4th liner tho right?

 

[surixon]

That would be pretty good for a 4th liner tho right?

No idea how it stacks up against other fourth liners.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He scores a few beautiful goals every year, and has stretches of play every year exactly like he had last year. We have this same conversation on him during these stretches every year.

And despite doing that every year he has never got better opportunities.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm not just stat watching. I've made notes numerous times on why I don't believe his game is suited for playing with skilled players. The players we build around in our top 6 like to change the pace of play depending on the situation, they like to use rotations and smart puck movement to break teams down. Barron plays the game at one speed and has a good amount of tunnel vision when he has the puck. Is he going to be able to see the seams our top 6 opens. Is he going to be able to get our skilled guys the puck off our rotation game? From what I've see I have a lot of doubts.

As I said earlier he has the traits and game style that if he continues to grow may allow him to replace Lowry.

I'd love to see all the guys on the second line with the skill you note - but we may need to consider strengths each of them bring and assignments they can take on individually. He doesn't need to be the playmaker - even if he is a center.
IMO, he might turn into a better option than Names - and that's all I'm really saying. That line could use someone that can and will go to the net and work the walls - that type of player doesn't always end up on a defensive or checking line - sometimes they play a role or support players / lines that can score.
I think we'd all love to see a skilled center step into that role - but that might not happen. So there are other things to look at with this being a possibility.
It's easy to say we need a better center than what we have, on our second (third?) line - I get that. But I also know how hard it has been for this org / city to draw much in the way of talent at 2nd line level.

 

[surixon]

I'd love to see all the guys on the second line with the skill you note - but we may need to consider strengths each of them bring and assignments they can take on individually. He doesn't need to be the playmaker - even if he is a center.
IMO, he might turn into a better option than Names - and that's all I'm really saying. That line could use someone that can and will go to the net and work the walls - that type of player doesn't always end up on a defensive or checking line - sometimes they play a role or support players / lines that can score.
I think we'd all love to see a skilled center step into that role - but that might not happen. So there are other things to look at with this being a possibility.
It's easy to say we need a better center than what we have, on our second (third?) line - I get that. But I also know how hard it has been for this org / city to draw much in the way of talent at 2nd line level.

I'm in agreement that they need more diversity in the top 6 as we have too much overlap in complimentary skills. Namestnikov is just a very poor man's version of what we already have there offensively and needs to be replaced. Having said that they need to bring in size that is still capable of thinking the game along the lines of how our skilled players think. That person can still do the board work and get to the net but they still need to link up effectively and fins those seams for the playmakers to take advantage of.

My thinking though is we need to set the bar higher then hoping for a Namestnikov level player albeit with a different skill set.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm in agreement that they need more diversity in the top 6 as we have too much overlap in complimentary skills. Namestnikov is just a very poor man's version of what we already have there offensively and needs to be replaced. Having said that they need to bring in size that is still capable of thinking the game along the lines of how our skilled players think. That person can still do the board work and get to the net but they still need to link up effectively and fins those seams for the playmakers to take advantage of.

My thinking though is we need to set the bar higher then hoping for a Namestnikov level player albeit with a different skill set.

I know what they need to bring in - we agree on that.
And we've been trying to do that for awhile
I'm not comparing Barron to what we need - I'm comparing him to what we have.
I see Barron as a potential better option over Names
And if we can find that elusive 2C that we'd all love to have, great - but I'm not holding my breath.
We likely need to draft / develop that player - and I'm not saying Barron is that player - but he might be worth a shot as we wait.

This org has been running it back with Names for a couple of yrs now - they don't seem to be having much luck finding the player you / we like to have.

 

[surixon]

I know what they need to bring in - we agree on that.
And we've been trying to do that for awhile
I'm not comparing Barron to what we need - I'm comparing him to what we have.
I see Barron as a potential better option over Names
And if we can find that elusive 2C that we'd all love to have, great - but I'm not holding my breath.
We likely need to draft / develop that player - and I'm not saying Barron is that player - but he might be worth a shot as we wait.

This org has been running it back with Names for a couple of yrs now - they don't seem to be having much luck finding the player you / we like to have.

I'd much rather the org just try one of the skilled centers they have drafted in the 2C hole. If your going to live with the mistakes of a young C then do it with one who has the upside required.

It's likely far easier to find a winger in the market that brings the size and grit.

 

[KingBogo]

I'd much rather the org just try one of the skilled centers they have drafted in the 2C hole. If your going to live with the mistakes of a young C then do it with one who has the upside required.

It's likely far easier to find a winger in the market that brings the size and grit.

It doesn’t appear the organization sees any of its current young players as the answer at #2 center. Maybe Yager keeps developing in that direction, but he is likely too far off to be an answer over the next couple years.

 

[surixon]

It doesn’t appear the organization sees any of its current young players as the answer at #2 center. Maybe Yager keeps developing in that direction, but he is likely too far off to be an answer over the next couple years.

Agreed but I have hard time seeing how they are able to make these determinations without actually giving said players a legit chance to show if they can or cannot.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's a f***ing huge C that skates well, hits, plays decent defensively and is good on the dot.

He's kind of everything we want in a 2C minus the production. I think people, myself included, just want to see how he can handle playing bigger minutes with better players. 4th line is all about straight lines, hit, get the puck up ice, dump it in, forecheck hard and try and gain back possession. It would be interesting to see how his game changes when the assignment is less about hitting everything in sight and ramming the puck into the opposing teams corners to hammer their defencemen and more about getting set up to make a play.

Yeah he does play a bit of a straight line lone wolf style with the puck as far as we've seen but he also hasn't had players to work the puck with so far. I could easily see him producing at least as well as Names has in a 2C role, while being better on the dot.

Certainly worth a shot, but a slight improvement over Names is still not the answer, especially if we lose Ehlers.

 

[LowLefty]

I'd much rather the org just try one of the skilled centers they have drafted in the 2C hole. If your going to live with the mistakes of a young C then do it with one who has the upside required.

It's likely far easier to find a winger in the market that brings the size and grit.

I have no issue with trying the guys you point out (or prefer) - I'd include Barron - give him some time with skilled players.
Why not - it's not like we have 2C's lined up waiting to join the Jets.
And it's not like we have a sure thing (center) waiting in the wings -
Barron also brings speed - not just size / grit. And that's a nice asset when looking at centers.

Anyway, good discussion and we don't have to agree - I'm only suggesting a look for Barron in that slot to prove me wrong

 

[bumblebeeman]

No idea how it stacks up against other fourth liners.

I mean if he's 50th percentile for zone time, that seems really good for a 4th liner. Wouldn't that place him as a 2nd and 3rd line tweener? Or am I not understanding your stats

 

[Whileee]

Certainly worth a shot, but a slight improvement over Names is still not the answer, especially if we lose Ehlers.

I think it will be a lot easier to bring in a top-end winger to replace Ehlers' production on the 2nd line than to find a top-grade 2C. With Perfetti slotted in on that line I think they need more size and speed. Maybe they can persuade Nelson to sign. If not, maybe one option is to go with a big C with great speed like Barron and try to acquire another skilled winger. Having a big C fast like Barron might also match better with a winger like Lambert or Chibrikov.

In any case, I recognize the reluctance to endorse him in that role. I wanted to see him in an elevated role over Namestnikov at times. But the more relevant factor is that I think Chevy might be intrigued with Barron getting an elevated role at C. I really don't think he brought his name into the conversation vis-a-vis a 4th line role. Barron is already in that role and Chevy was talking about younger players taking on bigger roles the way Samberg did this season.