Tkachuk traded to Florida

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

No, he has stated that wants to play for the bleu, blanc and rouge.

Jonathan Huberdeau se voit avec le Canadien

L’attaquant Jonathan Huberdeau chérit toujours le rêve de porter l’uniforme du Canadien de Montréal.

www.journaldemontreal.com

I agree that Zito has been dishing out 1st round picks like they are nothing. Zito can evaluate players correctly as far as their contracts are concerned but his asset mgmt skills in the trade biz leaves a lot to improve.

115pts looks nice in the stats sheet but in the end it was all about the playoffs. When Zito sees Verhaeghe, a then-$1mil winger scoring 12pts in 10 games, and 34yo TDL-acquisition in Giroux score 8pts in same amount of games, and generally have more impact on the ice... that's really all the evidence Zito needed to make his move.

Huberdeau got complacent and didn't expect to take flak for his playoff performance. He thought that his 115pts would guarantee a retirement package from Zito in the form of a $11milx8 deal. I agree that it would be greatly beneficial to have stability in the roster but unfortunately the players do not see the correlation between their effort when it counts the most and the mgmt's impact/$$$-calculations.

The Panthers are in a significantly worse situation with not having Weegar in the lineup. ppl may criticize him for a handful of mistakes but he was still the biggest contributor on winning games during 5-on-5 play. I don't see how Zito can make up for his absence when he has no 1st round pick at his disposal.

I think Zito is ok with a "down" year that will still very likely result in playoffs. This is more to extend the window. I dont think anyone wanted Weegar at his new cap hit so they can replace him next year. Im a bit surprised if they dont make a deal just because they are so close to the cap, carrying no extra skaters isnt ideal.

The only thing I dont like is that trading the 1st is a bit too much imo.

 

[Mogo]

So

Flames signed Thaczuk before the trade. How does this effect in the future. Say Panthers buy out last two years will cap penalty majority go to Flames?

 

[Gentle Man]

If we can somehow acquire/sign dman to take up the minutes Forsling used to have (since he will be replacing Weegar's minutes), I think we can still be very competitive.

Just depends if the buy 2 get 1 players we get amount to anything. Mainly White and Balcers.

 

[Ghoste]

I really appreciate you coming here sharing your views in a very respectful manner. So first, thank you for that.

I looked into the whole Tkachuk and his teammates thing, and based on what I've read, I'm not sure I'd really have the same take as you do. I obviously don't know the situation well and don't follow the Flames that closely, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Based on my understanding:
- Tkachuk hates to lose and will do whatever it takes to do that, even if it means being a dick on the ice
- He's a complete shit disturber and will piss off the other team, some may say that's disrespectful and be annoyed having to deal with the fallout
- He's really passionate and fiery, which is part of his game and one of his positive intangibles, in my mind at least
- He's also very outspoken, mostly unfiltered, but actually sounds pretty well-spoken as well (relative to other players at least)
- The Flames, whether that's the previous leadership or management, had asked him to tone things down and it doesn't need to be "mayhem" every night
- The Jake Muzzin puck flip incident was a big thing where nobody came to Tkachuk's defense, which really deflated him and he was pissed. This was one of the more well-documented "locker room" issues regarding Tkachuk

From all that, I actually think he's exactly what this team needs. Our franchise is just too nice and doesn't have enough snarl. Yeah we have Gudas and Horny and Bennett now, and Weegar would throw down, Huby was pissed sometimes. But we didn't have anybody like Tkachuk that other teams hated to play against, certainly not one of our top players. We also never had someone who hated losing. We've always had players that want to win, but never players that hate to lose.

Also from what it sounds like, and this is not me trying to be critical of the Flames here, but it sounds like they were trying to rein Tkachuk in because they didn't want to have a fight on their hands every night. I'm also shocked the puck flip thing was such a big deal and that other teammates didn't want to defend him. He's trying to create emotion out there, it's an emotional game, why would you not want that? Quite frankly, I want that for our team. Part of the problem last year is that things were too easy and they were almost just going through the motions. If on a Tuesday night in January, Tkachuk pisses off the other team and it turns into a brawl, good, I want that.

A lot of this stuff also sounded like it came earlier in his career, but he'll be turning 25 soon. Looks like he's been maturing, so hopefully that means he's figuring out when to harness that fire and when to dial it back. I'd also remind everyone of Marchand who was a complete douche of a player earlier in his years. With help, he was able to put together the whole package to become one of the best players in the league. I'd say Wilson too had to learn how to control the fiery part and play on that fine line that pisses off the other team without being a detriment to your own team.

Basically, Tkachuk sounds like everything this team needs and I'm super excited for him to join us. We finally have an element that was been lacking on this team for a very long time.

This is an interesting point. I too think we need to have more of an edge. Not necessarily more fighting cause I don’t want our guys to get injured but just more of that in-your-face attitude. Chucky and Cousins occasionally annoying the other team would be a welcomed addition I think.

Going back to this last Tampa series, it seemed we were too nice. Like we didn’t play physically hockey. Seemed like the bloodbath hockey we played in last year’s series and end of season games helped our game out. And this year we were passive. Who knows maybe that brutal Washington series where the Caps were finishing every single check wore us out too much.

-ghoste

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I think Zito is ok with a "down" year that will still very likely result in playoffs. This is more to extend the window. I dont think anyone wanted Weegar at his new cap hit so they can replace him next year. Im a bit surprised if they dont make a deal just because they are so close to the cap, carrying no extra skaters isnt ideal.

The only thing I dont like is that trading the 1st is a bit too much imo.

Agreed. However, I don't think Zito will be able to acquire another top4 dman and unload salary at the same time. Considering Bjorkstrand was traded for 3rd + 4th (at $5.5mil iirc), Duke's ($3mil) value is a 2nd + 3rd at at best imo. Carlsson and Montour have to elevate their game to another level if the Panthers want to be a playoff team.

 

[KW]

Agreed. However, I don't think Zito will be able to acquire another top4 dman and unload salary at the same time. Considering Bjorkstrand was traded for 3rd + 4th (at $5.5mil iirc), Duke's ($3mil) value is a 2nd + 3rd at at best imo. Carlsson and Montour have to elevate their game to another level if the Panthers want to be a playoff team.

I think Monty can/will elevate his game, because he’ll probably have more ice time. I’m pretty confident in Ek, Fors, Monty in the top-4, and Gudas in the bot-2. I think we can fill someone, maybe rotating basis, on bot-2 with Gudas, so the question really is, who’s going to be our #3 or #4? Somewhat optimistic, missing a #3 or a #4 rather than a #2. Wonder if Zito has another unknown up his sleeve… but still, I agree that we’re probably a McD type of player away from being a major threat in playoffs.

 

[Gentle Man]

If Carlsson progresses from last year, I think we will be fine.

He was better than Hagg, Lindbohm, Chiarot, among others. The only ones better than him were Weegs, Montour, Forsling, and Ekblad. He was around Gudas level for me

 

[KW]

Sounds like so many of the players really want to be in sunny Florida… MT isn’t the first to have the look of someone who really lucked out… so all those old “no one wants to go to Florida” claims by the Canadians are bullshit now like they pretty much were before… but now with a good team here, don’t be surprised if we become a more permanent top-ish fixture in the NHL.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

I won't be surprised if Zito just goes with what we have on D until at least January when Duke is near back and evaluate that options he has. Someone will have to move anyway

 

[batting1k]

So

Flames signed Thaczuk before the trade. How does this effect in the future. Say Panthers buy out last two years will cap penalty majority go to Flames?

Flames didn’t sign him.

The terms of the contract were agreed to by FLA and Tkachuk prior to the trade. The trade was contingent on an extension agreement.

The trade went through, then the extension with us was official.

 

[Gentle Man]

Flames didn’t sign him.

The terms of the contract were agreed to by FLA and Tkachuk prior to the trade. The trade was contingent on an extension agreement.

The trade went through, then the extension with us was official.

Technically they did. It was the first ever sign and trade in the NHL per the league, hence the 8 years.

But the Flames don't capture any penalties since he was trade with no retention

Capfriendly has it listed properly too. Calgary were the signers.

 

[Desert Panther]

Has he put out a tweet with Huby stabbed in the back yet?

Is he MAF's agent as well?

 

[BabyBennettov]

Technically they did. It was the first ever sign and trade in the NHL per the league, hence the 8 years.

But the Flames don't capture any penalties since he was trade with no retention


View attachment 572242


Capfriendly has it listen properly too. Calgary were the signers.

Pretty sure Hossa vs Heatley was done the day Marian Hossa signed a contract-extension... Remember it like that because sign-and-trade are so rare in NHL and I recall telling myself that was really surprising.

But I don't think it was like with Chucky this time, where the Panthers agreed in principle to a contract-offer with his agent and gave Calgary the details so that they sign the player and ship him to us right after.

 

[batting1k]

Is he MAF's agent as well?

Yes

 

[Felidae]

When people ask why zito would trade Huberdeau, who will be 30 when his new contract starts, for tkachuk who is 5yrs younger while also scoring 40+ Goals and 100+ points

View attachment 572210

I wouldnt expect that goalscoring and production again. He was on a line where 2 other players also had career years in every offensive category. One was a selke candidate and the other was a top 5 offensive player in the game.

Outside of this one year he's paced around 75+ points for the last 4 years. He's still young and could have a few 80 or 90 point seasons ahead of him. But expecting a repeat of last year is setting yourself up for dissapointment.

5 additional years of a 75+ pesty forward in his prime is still pretty good though.

 

[Gentle Man]

Pretty sure Hossa vs Heatley was done the day Marian Hossa signed a contract-extension... Remember it like that because sign-and-trade are so rare in NHL and I recall telling myself that was really surprising.

But I don't think it was like with Chucky this time, where the Panthers agreed in principle to a contract-offer with his agent and gave Calgary the details so that they sign the player and ship him to us right after.

Yea different. It's the typical verbal agreement then trade thing. Looks like all the contracts for Hossa were signed by the teams he played for (except Pitt. He was traded mid season I believe).

His contracts were signed by Ottawa, Detroit (1 year), then by Tallon.

Chucky was an NBA-esque sign and trade. Truly the first one ever in the NHL. Kinda neat to witness history.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I wouldnt expect that goalscoring and production again. He was on a line where 2 other players also had career years in every offensive category. One was a selke candidate and the other was a top 5 offensive player in the game.

However, the Panther do have a Selke winner and probably another future Selke candidate in their roster.
I do expect him to hit +100pts in several seasons because he's compensated at a level which makes it a reasonable expectation. But all in all, we're all about the playoffs... if the Panthers win the cup even once, no one really cares if he only scored ~80-90pts per season during his tenure with the Cats.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

We definitely overpaid. I understand losing Huberdeau; less sure how we're going to replace Weegar and did we relly need to give up yet ANOTHER 1st round pick? Ugh. That said, Tkachuk's a great young player and one of the few guys who don't have me calling for Zito's head after a trade luke this. Very bold, potentially identity- changing move. Let's hope it works out.
Also, the D. Yikes. There better be a plan going forward...

 

[BB88]

We definitely overpaid. I understand losing Huberdeau; less sure how we're going to replace Weegar and did we relly need to give up yet ANOTHER 1st round pick? Ugh. That said, Tkachuk's a great young player and one of the few guys who don't have me calling for Zito's head after a trade luke this. Very bold, potentially identity- changing move. Let's hope it works out.
Also, the D. Yikes. There better be a plan going forward...

The 1st round pick is what bother me on that trade.

Weegar+ Hubs for Tkachuk.

Awesome for Florida
Awesome for Calgary.

By next summer Weegar should have been replaced by Zito.
Florida is turning into a top destination and players want to join and chase the Cup and there’s 15 million dead cap dropping out

 

[Gentle Man]

My guess is the 1st round pick was for the 8th year.

So Huby + Weegs for Tkachuk
Schwidt as a sweetener
1st for max term (8 years).

 

[batting1k]

Technically they did. It was the first ever sign and trade in the NHL per the league, hence the 8 years.

But the Flames don't capture any penalties since he was trade with no retention


View attachment 572242


Capfriendly has it listed properly too. Calgary were the signers.

Ah, thanks for that. I misunderstood when I read about it yesterday. I thought it was merely an agreement until the trade went through.

We definitely overpaid. I understand losing Huberdeau; less sure how we're going to replace Weegar and did we relly need to give up yet ANOTHER 1st round pick? Ugh. That said, Tkachuk's a great young player and one of the few guys who don't have me calling for Zito's head after a trade luke this. Very bold, potentially identity- changing move. Let's hope it works out.
Also, the D. Yikes. There better be a plan going forward...

The goal is to win a Cup in the next 3-4 years, at the very least. The move extends our window so I’m ok with giving up the pick. It does make TDL moves a bit more difficult though, guess we’ll have to get by on 2nd and 3rd rounders.

 

[batting1k]

I wouldnt expect that goalscoring and production again. He was on a line where 2 other players also had career years in every offensive category. One was a selke candidate and the other was a top 5 offensive player in the game.

Outside of this one year he's paced around 75+ points for the last 4 years. He's still young and could have a few 80 or 90 point seasons ahead of him. But expecting a repeat of last year is setting yourself up for dissapointment.

5 additional years of a 75+ pesty forward in his prime is still pretty good though.

You could say the same about Huby too. Probably a bit more than 75 points but it was helpful that we had one of the best offenses the league has seen in 20+ years. Not that he couldn’t hit 100+ points otherwise but still.

 

[FrolikFan67]

I wouldnt expect that goalscoring and production again. He was on a line where 2 other players also had career years in every offensive category. One was a selke candidate and the other was a top 5 offensive player in the game.

Outside of this one year he's paced around 75+ points for the last 4 years. He's still young and could have a few 80 or 90 point seasons ahead of him. But expecting a repeat of last year is setting yourself up for dissapointment.

5 additional years of a 75+ pesty forward in his prime is still pretty good though.

Oh absolutely, I think it’d be foolish to expect a player outside of mcdavid and maybe draisaitl to consistently put up over 100+ points each season. It’s more of the fact they received a guy who put up over 40 goals and over 100 points for someone who scored over 100 points.

Outside of his rookie year, he’s been on pace (over 82 games) 29, 34, 27, 23, and 42 goals (in order). 31 goals on average per 82 games over the past 5yrs. He also played on a line of backlund and Frolik for a time. Playing on the top line with Barkov I expect a 30g/70+pt scorer with potential to break 35-40+ from time to time and can also be a ppg player here and there. Scoring has gone up the past couple years and will probably continue that way. And if we maintain our play style for the most part then we’ll do just fine. While also being better defensively, nastier to play against, constiently score more goals than Huberdeau, more of a positive effect on the pp and gives the Barkov line the type of player they’ve been needing (why I liked Marchment with him 2 playoffs ago).

Sometimes when you’re at a company, even if that company has some great returns every now and then, if they continue to not get the results they need to when it matters most? Well, we’re going in a different direction. It’s time to shift the culture a bit and sometimes you have to remove the guys who have been there a long time with fresh faces that reflect the culture and business you’re trying to instill. It’s not like Crosby and Malkin who brought in 3 Stanley cups

 

[Felidae]

You could say the same about Huby too. Probably a bit more than 75 points but it was helpful that we had one of the best offenses the league has seen in 20+ years. Not that he couldn’t hit 100+ points otherwise but still.

Not to the same extent as Tkachuk. Huberdeau has consistently been on pace for 90+ points since 2018.

Tkachuk has never been on pace for more than 78 points until this season.

Tkachuk season is much more of an outlier production wise.

It doesn't bother me that people prefer what Tkachuk brings. But the offensive gap between the two players over the last 3 to 4 seasons is not insignificant.

 

[batting1k]