Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[Jets 31]

A buddy of mine with season tickets got to tour Canada Life Center and he brought the Dude, very cool. Got to see everything except for Arniel's office, under a renovation, and the theater room. Apparently this is a way to offer some perks to being a season ticket holder .

 

[robertocarlos]

The dressing room rug ties every thing together?

 

[voyageur]

Got 4 tickets to the home opener, and was surprised by two things...cost for a good upper deck seat $137 a piece before taxes. For someone who shelled out the $30 dollars at 7-11 for a pair of upper deck seats in the 90s I was surprised at how far the prices have gone up.

Secondly, there is thousands of tickets still available, it seems.

Yeah True North can mitigate attendance losses, especially with playoff appearances, but the league itself has got to be looking at us, wondering if it's time to go. Cities with more corporate affluence can probably easily reach our attendance numbers, if not exceed them. True North is pushing a price point that is probably not sustainable given the economic stresses many people are facing.

 

[tbcwpg]

Got 4 tickets to the home opener, and was surprised by two things...cost for a good upper deck seat $137 a piece before taxes. For someone who shelled out the $30 dollars at 7-11 for a pair of upper deck seats in the 90s I was surprised at how far the prices have gone up.

Secondly, there is thousands of tickets still available, it seems.

Yeah True North can mitigate attendance losses, especially with playoff appearances, but the league itself has got to be looking at us, wondering if it's time to go. Cities with more corporate affluence can probably easily reach our attendance numbers, if not exceed them. True North is pushing a price point that is probably not sustainable given the economic stresses many people are facing.

I think the league would rather expand into those markets and get the expansion fee than relocate.

 

[surixon]

I think the league would rather expand into those markets and get the expansion fee than relocate.

Also there are markers with years upon years of low attendance. This would really only be year 3 for us.

We as a market are going through one right now in large part to due to COVID and the years worth massive inflation and economic turmoil that happened right after. It is still going to be a couple of years until wages catch up and people are in the same economic state as before COVID.

This is part of owning a business, there will be ebs and flows in demand due to different internal and external factors. But in the end even with these issues the team made money last year even with the challenges. They just have to keep working on improving client relations, growing their corporate base and wait for people's economic situation to improve.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Got 4 tickets to the home opener, and was surprised by two things...cost for a good upper deck seat $137 a piece before taxes. For someone who shelled out the $30 dollars at 7-11 for a pair of upper deck seats in the 90s I was surprised at how far the prices have gone up.

Secondly, there is thousands of tickets still available, it seems.

Yeah True North can mitigate attendance losses, especially with playoff appearances, but the league itself has got to be looking at us, wondering if it's time to go. Cities with more corporate affluence can probably easily reach our attendance numbers, if not exceed them. True North is pushing a price point that is probably not sustainable given the economic stresses many people are facing.

Home opener will be more expensive than many of the other regular season games for comparable seats for a couple reasons.

1. It's the home opener
2. Connor Bedard plays for the Blackhawks - ticket prices are higher when the opposition features a generational player.

I did a quick count and there are probably 900 or so blue dots available. Where did you get the thousands of tickets still available? Are you counting the pink dots? Those are resale.

 

[Jets 31]

Got 4 tickets to the home opener, and was surprised by two things...cost for a good upper deck seat $137 a piece before taxes. For someone who shelled out the $30 dollars at 7-11 for a pair of upper deck seats in the 90s I was surprised at how far the prices have gone up.

Secondly, there is thousands of tickets still available, it seems.

Yeah True North can mitigate attendance losses, especially with playoff appearances, but the league itself has got to be looking at us, wondering if it's time to go. Cities with more corporate affluence can probably easily reach our attendance numbers, if not exceed them. True North is pushing a price point that is probably not sustainable given the economic stresses many people are facing.

Honestly 137 bucks isn't that bad considering prices for concert tickets today. Everything has gone up in price, i went to Wendy's the other day and it cost almost 40 bucks. Wait until you buy a beer at the game, it's almost as much as your ticket .

 

[voyageur]

Honestly 137 bucks isn't that bad considering prices for concert tickets today. Everything has gone up in price, i went to Wendy's the other day and it cost almost 40 bucks. Wait until you buy a beer at the game, it's almost as much as your ticket .

Yes I know everything costs more, including beer. Only thing that has gone down in price in my lifetime is cilantro. But still do you think the average Winnipegger can shell out $300-$600 to go a hockey game? 20 times a year? I work with blue collar people, that's out of their range more than once or twice a year.

When the Jets came back I was paying $1000 for 2 tickets, 5 games a year, in the lower bowl.

 

[ps241]

Yes I know everything costs more, including beer. Only thing that has gone down in price in my lifetime is cilantro. But still do you think the average Winnipegger can shell out $300-$600 to go a hockey game? 20 times a year? I work with blue collar people, that's out of their range more than once or twice a year.

When the Jets came back I was paying $1000 for 2 tickets, 5 games a year, in the lower bowl.

It’s all part of the larger challenge.

When the Jets came back the dollar was at par and our team payroll was about $50 million CND. The Salary cap is $88 million this season USD x 1.34 (exchange rate) = $117 million CND vs $50 million when they arrived. All prices including seats would have needed to more than double just to keep up with salary inflation.

Not for the faint of heart.

 

[Eyeseeing]

It’s all part of the challenge larger challenge.

When the Jets came back the dollar was at par and our team payroll was about $50 million CND. The Salary cap is $88 million this season USD x 1.34 (exchange rate) = $117 million CND vs $50 million when they arrived. All prices including seats would have needed to more than double just to keep up with salary inflation.

Not for the faint of heart.

Therein lies the issue.
Small market coupled with variable challenges, Covid, economic uncertainty and inflation *( not players salaries here ).
Vs team operating expenses and you have a potential to price your product out of the city.
Chipman probably prefers to have the team stay put but he is not going to bleed out to keep it here.
Not sure if and when that happens but it definitely could.

 

[Jets 31]

Therein lies the issue.
Small market coupled with variable challenges, Covid, economic uncertainty and inflation *( not players salaries here ).
Vs team operating expenses and you have a potential to price your product out of the city.
Chipman probably prefers to have the team stay put but he is not going to bleed out to keep it here.
Not sure if and when that happens but it definitely could.

All they need is a long playoff run and they will have money to play with, easy peasy .

 

[Buffdog]

Therein lies the issue.
Small market coupled with variable challenges, Covid, economic uncertainty and inflation *( not players salaries here ).
Vs team operating expenses and you have a potential to price your product out of the city.
Chipman probably prefers to have the team stay put but he is not going to bleed out to keep it here.
Not sure if and when that happens but it definitely could.

Even if the Jets are cash flow negative, as long as the money lost annually is less than the appreciation of the value of the franchise, it would not make sense to move them

In 2011, TNSE spent 170M to aquire the Jets. They are now valued at 650M

As long as the company isn't cash-poor, it would be short sighted to sell an investment with returns like that

 

[surixon]

Even if the Jets are cash flow negative, as long as the money lost annually is less than the appreciation of the value of the franchise, it would not make sense to move them

In 2011, TNSE spent 170M to aquire the Jets. They are now valued at 650M

As long as the company isn't cash-poor, it would be short sighted to sell an investment with returns like that

They were profitable last year and have been most every year.

They are also setting up a downtown real-estate empire. Honestly I'd look at the Jets as an anchor tenant to drive their other business ventures.

It's the NHL model most smaller markets use.

 

[surixon]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Chipman stands to make a cool $60 million USD plus in expansion fees over the next few years once Atlanta and Houston get teams.

Also the NHL continues to move away from being a gate driven league with more and more digital and other revenue streams.

 

[sipowicz]

Some interesting takes, still think that if you had a 16000 seat arena in south Winnipeg it would be sold out every game!

Downtown Winnipeg in 2024 isn't exactly downtown Winnipeg in 2011 and not in a good way, far from it!

 

[Mooche]

Even if the Jets are cash flow negative, as long as the money lost annually is less than the appreciation of the value of the franchise, it would not make sense to move them

In 2011, TNSE spent 170M to aquire the Jets. They are now valued at 650M

As long as the company isn't cash-poor, it would be short sighted to sell an investment with returns like that

Agreed @Buffdog on this sentiment.

I haven't looked at the actual numbers in a while, but looked this morning, and here is what I could find....

TN purchased the Jets for 170M USD (dollar was sitting right around par) so let's say ~170M CAD for the acquisition.

Dec 2023, according to Forbes, the team is valued at 780M USD. With the current exchange rate, the evaluation would be just north of 1 billion CAD for the Jets.

Not a shabby ROI.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/winnipeg-jets/

 

[jetsmooseice]

Some interesting takes, still think that if you had a 16000 seat arena in south Winnipeg it would be sold out every game!

Downtown Winnipeg in 2024 isn't exactly downtown Winnipeg in 2011 and not in a good way, far from it!

It's kind of funny, back in 2011 everyone thought the arena was in a great location and the new stadium was in a bad one. Now it's the other way around.

 

[Buffdog]

It's kind of funny, back in 2011 everyone thought the arena was in a great location and the new stadium was in a bad one. Now it's the other way around.

Whatever convineice the central location offers is offset by the "ambiance" of downtown

I'm honestly not sure where I'd drop a new one today. PA Stadium is OK for 9 games a year.. but 41?

 

[LowLefty]

Therein lies the issue.
Small market coupled with variable challenges, Covid, economic uncertainty and inflation *( not players salaries here ).
Vs team operating expenses and you have a potential to price your product out of the city.
Chipman probably prefers to have the team stay put but he is not going to bleed out to keep it here.
Not sure if and when that happens but it definitely could.

They need a lot more corporate support which might allow them to reduce prices for the rest -
I don't know how much they currently have or what the corporate market looks like in Wpg - so maybe I'm dreaming.
But I'd love to know what those numbers look like today versus what was disclosed earlier (IIR it was around 15%).

 

[voyageur]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Chipman stands to make a cool $60 million USD plus in expansion fees over the next few years once Atlanta and Houston get teams.

Also the NHL continues to move away from being a gate driven league with more and more digital and other revenue streams.

I would say just looking at the Forbes numbers for the Jets, and comparable smaller market franchises like Nashville and Carolina, that attendance makes up roughly 1/3 of revenues. I would imagine TV/corporate sponsorship is worth another 1/3. And the remaining money comes from other forms of revenue sharing, such as merchandising, and actual league revenue sharing. I don't think you see expansion for another 3 years, maybe within a year or two the actual bids are submitted. Houston's owner is still fighting with the NHL over what a franchise is worth, so that might open the door for Arizona coming back. Rogers TV deal expires in 2, so you might get some more revenue there, as the NHL probably splits the deal between Rogers/Bell/Amazon Canada this time around.

If the Jets attendance dips below Utah's, which is 11 000 and change capacity this year, I think there are going to be some red flags thrown up, again. Stay in 13-14 000 range and that's probably a profit for Chipman and company with a playoff appearance.

 

[surixon]

I would say just looking at the Forbes numbers for the Jets, and comparable smaller market franchises like Nashville and Carolina, that attendance makes up roughly 1/3 of revenues. I would imagine TV/corporate sponsorship is worth another 1/3. And the remaining money comes from other forms of revenue sharing, such as merchandising, and actual league revenue sharing. I don't think you see expansion for another 3 years, maybe within a year or two the actual bids are submitted. Houston's owner is still fighting with the NHL over what a franchise is worth, so that might open the door for Arizona coming back. Rogers TV deal expires in 2, so you might get some more revenue there, as the NHL probably splits the deal between Rogers/Bell/Amazon Canada this time around.

If the Jets attendance dips below Utah's, which is 11 000 and change capacity this year, I think there are going to be some red flags thrown up, again. Stay in 13-14 000 range and that's probably a profit for Chipman and company with a playoff appearance.

I mean why are we talking about it dipping below that margin. Even with a down year last year we averaged 13,450. By the count for opening night it seems there had been an uptick this year.

My guess is we see some growth and average in the low 14,000.

 

[Gm0ney]

TNSE Sales Department:

 

[Gordon112358]

I am part of a group of 8 who purchase 4 season tickets so each member goes to 8-12 games on average depending on preference.
I am in the first row of the balcony (not loge seating) and I pay $94 a seat. The view is excellent but as this approaches $100 it gets harder and harder to keep going. When I first started in 2011 the seats were $63. So they have gong up about 50% and I know my wages have not kept pace.
To save money I am fortunate that I can park downtown for free and generally don't buy concessions unless it's a Tim's hot chocolate. I refuse to pay $6.50 for a soft drink. I stopped once it got to $5. I also don't drink beer but I know I am in the minority . I love the Jets and love going to games but I have cut back on some optional items to keep the costs down.
You do get sticker shock when you purchase an individual seat especially for high demand games. The best way to go is get into a group if possible as it keeps prices down as much as 50% as my own seat for the home opener would likely be around $150 bought individually.

 

[gojetsgo]

you know hockey is back when people start fear mongering about the team moving

 

[Eyeseeing]

Some interesting takes, still think that if you had a 16000 seat arena in south Winnipeg it would be sold out every game!

Downtown Winnipeg in 2024 isn't exactly downtown Winnipeg in 2011 and not in a good way, far from it!

This and the fact that there are Winnipeggers like me too cheap to shell out that kind of dough for a hockey game that may or may not be entertaining.

Even if the Jets are cash flow negative, as long as the money lost annually is less than the appreciation of the value of the franchise, it would not make sense to move them

In 2011, TNSE spent 170M to aquire the Jets. They are now valued at 650M

As long as the company isn't cash-poor, it would be short sighted to sell an investment with returns like that

He would get way more than 650M if someone wanted to take it off his hands