Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[GaryPoppins]

Vibes after Tuesdays game are low. Team, though early, is off to a not great start.

It seems as one issue is gone(players wanting out), a big one comes in its place.

When will all the noise around the franchise just go away?

 

[DRW204]

Wonder how the relationship or professionalism of the commercial / business account reps is on comparison to some of the ones you read about on the individual level.

 

[surixon]

Yup, I think the org is coming to grips with having to sell the product for the first time since the team arrived.

I feel like they miscalculated and thought they could weather the pandemic and everything would be fine but they're really going to have to build out their sales team and hit the corporate pavement.

I don't think it's a gloomy as some are saying here, the one thing TN has done is built some gate insurance into their business model. The good news is once they figure out how to get the building back to capacity they'll have all that revenue back - and they still have investments that will add to their bottom line once they come on line

Agreed. Making mistakes is how you learn. They have the opportunity to learn and grow their sales team and those processes.

As you said they have plenty of other revenue streams to weather some down years.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Wonder how the relationship or professionalism of the commercial / business account reps is on comparison to some of the ones you read about on the individual level.

Not sure of that guy's math.

Capactity = 16,345
15% Corporate = 2,452
Leftover = 13,894

Of those 13,894 I'm not sure how many are STH and how many are walk up. Dreger mentions 9,500 STH but is the 15% corporate part of that? Regardless, maybe Chipman is right asking the corporate sector to step up a bit?

Again, they really need to upgrade the in-arena experience. How can you go 12 years without changing anything except raising the price of literally everything in there? There should be theme nights, local music performances between periods, etc.

 

[None]

Not sure of that guy's math.

Capactity = 16,345
15% Corporate = 2,452
Leftover = 13,894

Of those 13,894 I'm not sure how many are STH and how many are walk up. Dreger mentions 9,500 STH but is the 15% corporate part of that? Regardless, maybe Chipman is right asking the corporate sector to step up a bit?

Again, they really need to upgrade the in-arena experience. How can you go 12 years without changing anything except raising the price of literally everything in there? There should be theme nights, local music performances between periods, etc.

The 15% corporate season ticket holders was Mark Chipman's quoted number back in April. 15% of total current season seat holder agreements; not 15% of the capacity of the arena.

1425 is 15% of the current 9500 season seats that Dreger reported.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

My experience with my Corporation is we have a box at the Arena. We don't buy Seats outside that. Yet in Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal we have a box in each arena and seats as well. The seats are for various divisions in the company to ask for and the boxes are generally for corporate outings with customers.

Why we haven't bought seats here is up for debate but my guess is it was never an thing earlier in the Jets existence and they(True North) never cultivated that market because they didn't have to. I don't know the exact numbers of tickets they buy for the other 3 Arenas but it is in the 30+ range.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

The 15% corporate season ticket holders was Mark Chipman's quoted number back in April. 15% of total current season seat holder agreements; not 15% of the capacity of the arena.

1425 is 15% of the current 9500 season seats that Dreger reported.

Ahh, makes sense. Thanks.

 

[surixon]

My experience with my Corporation is we have a box at the Arena. We don't buy Seats outside that. Yet in Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal we have a box in each arena and seats as well. The seats are for various divisions in the company to ask for and the boxes are generally for corporate outings with customers.

Why we haven't bought seats here is up for debate but my guess is it was never an thing earlier in the Jets existence and they(True North) never cultivated that market because they didn't have to. I don't know the exact numbers of tickets they buy for the other 3 Arenas but it is in the 30+ range.

Yup, one of many markets they are going to have to actively grow. These things take time.

 

[None]

Why we haven't bought seats here is up for debate but my guess is it was never an thing earlier in the Jets existence and they(True North) never cultivated that market because they didn't have to. I don't know the exact numbers of tickets they buy for the other 3 Arenas but it is in the 30+ range.

Personal anecdote but my dad has personal tickets and early on before he retired and wanted tickets for his business they wouldn't let him buy more. His business had 6 moose seats in 2010 I think?

It's probably a fine line between balancing corporate interests that are less fickle about on-ice product and paying fans. If True North had earmarked 70%+ of their initial seat offering for businesses I imagine they'd have been raked over the coals but we might not be having any of this discussion today if they had.

 

[cbcwpg]

The 15% corporate season ticket holders was Mark Chipman's quoted number back in April. 15% of total current season seat holder agreements; not 15% of the capacity of the arena.

1425 is 15% of the current 9500 season seats that Dreger reported.

Given the 15% is accurate for corporate season tickets... it would appear to me that Joe Fan is doing more than enough to support this team via season tickets.

1425 - Corporate
8075 - Joe Fan

 

[tbcwpg]

Was the announced attendance for Tuesday butts in seats or paid?

I imagine we'll see a lot of crowds like this going forward this year.

 

[None]

Given the 15% is accurate for corporate season tickets... it would appear to me that Joe Fan is doing more than enough to support this team via season tickets.

1425 - Corporate
8075 - Joe Fan

Yeah, I'm guessing some smaller businesses use personal tickets for business interests but even by the low end of Canadian corporate support at 45% it would get us up to around ~95% seats sold. That 1425 should be closer to 7500.

95% tickets pre-sold is probably too many too, so Joe fan is and has been doing more than their part.

 

[Ober]

As a season ticket holder of not just Jets 2011 to date but also Moose prior to that (in anticipation of NHL coming back).....

My opinion is that True North absolutely got in the way of the passion and helped to snuff it out with an attitude and questionable customer service decisions that came across as "we're listening but we know best...so just shut up and accept what we are providing." Covid then certainly squashed whatever was left over. And presently the pricing of everything along with the general economy is simply giving people another excuse to not support like 21,000 did back in 2011 (but this applies to every City...not just Winnipeg or even Winnipeg more than others).

Building back that trust and goodwill by True North is now going to be a slow process unfortunately....but they are the main reason for both bringing back the NHL to Winnipeg as well as the erosion of the passion. I'm sure they are kicking themselves and have made attempts to improve but they are happening way too slow and way too conservatively in this man's opinion.

Step back True North...embrace and allow many others to drive this "Jet" back into something where we as fanatics can enjoy and be entertained by the atmosphere that you greatly helped snuff out.

The passion of 21,000 has not and probably never will just disappear into thin air...but this current situation just goes to show how quickly goodwill can erode when one party thinks they are above everyone. That again is my opinion on how True North comes across. "Our way or no way"

 

[cbcwpg]

Personal anecdote but my dad has personal tickets and early on before he retired and wanted tickets for his business they wouldn't let him buy more. His business had 6 moose seats in 2010 I think?

It's probably a fine line between balancing corporate interests that are less fickle about on-ice product and paying fans. If True North had earmarked 70%+ of their initial seat offering for businesses I imagine they'd have been raked over the coals but we might not be having any of this discussion today if they had.

Seems that TNSE didn't do their homework. They should have seen what the corporate ticket holder rate was in all the other Canadian cities, then target that base first at that percentage, and after that, open up season tickets for individuals. Sure they might have made some people mad, but given a normal turn over rate, if you really wanted season tickets you would eventually get them. And you are right, maybe we would have better corporate support than we do now.

**

According to TNSE 15% of their season ticket base is corporate, while that rate in other Canadian markets is 45% or better. Given the 9,500 full time STHs, that's 1,425 for corporate, and 8,075 for individuals.

If the Jets had 45% corporate support , or another 30% of capacity as corporate STHs, that would be an additional 4,500 STHs. added to the 1,425 corporate they have. That would put them at ~14,000 STHs with just 1,000 seats for walkup each game.

The Jets sold out every game until Covid hit. Since then, the economy has been devastated , and what is the first thing that businesses cut out when times get hard? Things like tickets for sports.

 

[Jets]

 

[Jetsfan79]

Low attendance is definitely concerning. But I think people are over stating things when they compare this to Jets 1.0. The main issue then was lack of new arena. People were emptying their piggy banks back then ro save the team. If push came to shove, I think winnipeggers would come through if they needed to save the team via season ticket ultimatum target. With True North investing in the arena, my sense is they will not use that card to sound off the allam bells threatening relocation.

There's also the NHL's revenue sharing fund that will help and current ownership is on strong footing.

But don't get me wrong, the low attending IS CONCERNING and its something that needs to be addressed

 

[SSCBLUEJET]

Winnipeg better get arses in those seats or it will be: Houston, we have a hockey team.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Winnipeg better get arses in those seats or it will be: Houston, we have a hockey team.

Yeah, but they would be getting the Jets so you can still use the original line...

Houston, we have a problem.

I love how some people think threats are going to motivate people into buying tickets. If that's going to be the True North way, they can hit the Trans Canada Highway. Don't let the blizzard gates at Headingley hit your rear bumper on the way out.

 

[Gm0ney]

But you know this isn't in a vacuum. The inflation adjusted salary I make today doesn't go nearly as far as it did in 11. You can't really use inflation numbers because they don't accurately reflect true cost of living today vs. then.

Yeah it's not a perfect measure, but Jets ticket prices haven't been way out of step with the CPI.

 

[abax44]

This is a lie I wish people will be more honest ones for him about things instead of just trying to win arguments by making sweeping and stupid generalizations

If these numbers are accurate, you're not wrong:

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

For what it's worth that's what the Jets were apparently trying to target with their marketing drive last year. I'm skeptical but that's what was claimed.

Then the email shouldn't have turned up in my inbox.

 

[Snowboy]

Yeah it's not a perfect measure, but Jets ticket prices haven't been way out of step with the CPI.

......but salaries have!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's not far off from inflation.

$39 in 2011 would be $51 today (vs $59).

$129 in 2011 would be $170 today (vs $185).

Seats were never cheap, and yet fans were lined up in 2011. It's not the money.

Agree - but in a way it is the money.
I was turned off of ST by 2 things in particular. 1) Being forced to buy unwanted pre-season games. I considered them near worthless so their cost just ups the avg cost of the other 41 games. 2) Regular adverts from the Jets offering me seats at below STH prices. Marketing 101 - don't undercut your own pricing, especially when it amounts to mistreating your best customers in favour of your much weaker customers.

Its not the money - but it is making me feel like a mark for paying full price. It is making me feel taken advantage of.

Those things are on top of the too often repeated failure to live up to expectations. It is a contrast between over promise and under deliver on the one hand or under promise and over deliver on the other. I prefer the latter. I don't like being in perpetual "win now" mode but not winning much. If the team isn't good enough to "win now", then it shouldn't be in win now mode. And it doesn't need to be a black or white choice between win now or rebuild either. There is a large grey zone of not REbuild, but simply build.

That said, I enjoyed going to live Jets games. I was lucky enough to see more wins than losses and even some of the losses were good, entertaining games. But a few were turds that left a smelly residue with me. And then being made to feel like I was being ripped off on the price was the last straw.

I will still attend some games. Probably fewer than in the recent past. And I will pay less per ticket.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seems a bit ignorant to say that paying $30 for a ticket plus gas plus parking plus any food or bev isn't expensive. You might be out of touch with how the average middle classer is struggling right now.

If you think of a family of 4 you're looking at hundreds of dollars for a 2.5 hour event.

A lot of people just don't have that disposable income right now.

I don't think it's the only issue but it absolutely is a problem.

Cost of living is not the issue though. The people who are struggling most now are people who never could afford that kind of luxury.

I am a far from rich retired old man. I can afford the costs if I want to. The inflation of the last 2 years hasn't made a huge difference.

Certainly, there are people who have been hit hard by mortgage interest and there will be more of them as more mortgages come up for renewal. People will find ways of dealing with that.

I really hope there were not too many people with floating rate mortgages at a time when interest rates were at an incredible historic low. They could only go up from there. People in that position whose mortgages were already stressing their budgets are the ones who will be hurting.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When you build your brand on the organic growth of passionate fans, then stifle it to make it as blase as possible, casually threaten them with relocation if they don't start buying tickets, throw a pandemic and insane inflation on top, you get outcomes like last game. If $50 is the difference between a full-tank of gas to get to work and go into a Jets game. I'm taking the gas every time. The Jets need to get some corporate buy in - this isn't the AHL anymore.

People have really got to stop talking about "insane inflation". That is such a massive exaggeration that it just sounds silly. Yes, there is inflation. Turkish inflation is insane. Argentine inflation is insane, or if it isn't right now it recently was and soon will be again. But our inflation hasn't even hit 2 digits yet, much less the 3 digits of "insane inflation". It is now down to an annual rate of 3.8%. That's nothing. Really.