Thoughts on Keith Pelley - President and CEO MLSE

[ACC1224]

Shanahan was never a hockey executive, never held an AGM or GM position to know the ins/outs. He was never qualified for the job.

He worked for the league before joining the Leafs.
Why would you need to be a GM before being a President?

 

[MarMarSab3]

He worked for the league before joining the Leafs.
Why would you need to be a GM before being a President?

How else would you know what a GM should be doing if you haven't been there yourself, there is a reason most if not all Presidents have been Gms at some point

He worked for the league as D.O.P.S ,not really a role you develop presidential skills

 

[Ports]

No idea who he is. Most executives care about bottom like profit and will care very little about on ice performance.

This is such a fallacy perpetuated by Leafs fans. Sure the Leafs make money regardless of team success because of the size of the rabid fan base but they’re hardly penny pinchers like Harold Ballard was. They spend way over the cap due to LTIR. They also have a huge organization and the best facilities and spend a ton on scouting and player development.
But the most significant point is they’re majority owned by media companies who share rights to NHL broadcasts that benefit from increased TV / streaming audiences whenever the Leafs play. Having the Leafs go deep in the playoffs would have a huge impact on their bottom line from ad revenue and several million a game in gate receipts and merchandise sales. Also, Board members have egos and get tired of the team being portrayed as chokers and would love nothing better then to celebrate a Stanley Cup victory with the players and fans. Believe what you want but no sports organization spends the way the Leafs do and doesn’t place an emphasis on winning. It’s management’s fault they’ve squandered the opportunities they’ve been given to build a true cup contender.

 

[Ports]

He worked for the league before joining the Leafs.
Why would you need to be a GM before being a President?

What does working at the league office have to do with knowing how to build a cup contender ? Both his and Dubas’ lack of experience in that area has set the team back. Hire a guy like Jim Rutherford who’s won cups in Pittsburgh and turned around the Canucks. TML’s are not a place for your first management job in the NHL.

 

[Stephen]

Shanahan was never a hockey executive, never held an AGM or GM position to know the ins/outs. He was never qualified for the job.

The era has been disappointing but the results are pretty good for a rank amateur…

 

[Ports]

The situation is not commensurate to Columbus because Jarmo Kekalainen was a GM of a losing franchise. That level of management was Kyle Dubas and now Brad Treliving. Brendan Shanahan is John Davidson in this power structure.

Broadly speaking, the Leafs are a financial juggernaut, doesn’t really matter if it’s on auto pilot or not. And is an annual playoff team with young marketable star power that seems positioned at the cusp of greatness… I don’t know if they will ever get over the hump, to our endless frustration…

But at the executive level you’re going to fire a president because you don’t like the state of their RHD or you want a better core group? Or whatever at the hockey ops level?

I don’t think big corporations micromanage themselves like that when things are pretty good on paper. Or that a new executive would come in, fire everyone and shorten his own runway. If Pelley comes in and blows up the core, the Leafs tank it in the standings, you don’t think he’ll be accused of being a bean counter gone awry and get booted in short order?

Pelley’s job isn’t to manage the team and make decisions at that level. That’s two levels below him. His job is too oversee the companies business which includes four sports teams as well as other interests. His job is also to hire and manage the people put in charge of each of those organizations and if those people don’t succeed in their objectives, his job is to replace them with people who will. My guess is Shanny is on thin ice.

 

[ACC1224]

How else would you know what a GM should be doing if you haven't been there yourself, there is a reason most if not all Presidents have been Gms at some point

He worked for the league as D.O.P.S ,not really a role you develop presidential skills

In his prior role he would have dealt with executives all over the league. He'd have a pretty good idea what a GM's job entails. Most people here think they could do the job, a guy being in the league for 30 plus years would have a pretty good grasp.
I'm not defending Shanahan, he's been terrible like many before, but these guys are put into roles all over the league with very little to no experience other than playing.

 

[ACC1224]

What does working at the league office have to do with knowing how to build a cup contender ? Both his and Dubas’ lack of experience in that area has set the team back. Hire a guy like Jim Rutherford who’s won cups in Pittsburgh and turned around the Canucks. TML’s are not a place for your first management job in the NHL.

I don't think Rutherford was available when he brought Dubas in. He did bring in Lou Lam for the transition but never should have given the job to Dubas.
Burke won a Cup, he didn't do a very good job either.

 

[Stephen]

Pelley’s job isn’t to manage the team and make decisions at that level. That’s two levels below him. His job is too oversee the companies business which includes four sports teams as well as other interests. His job is also to hire and manage the people put in charge of each of those organizations and if those people don’t succeed in their objectives, his job is to replace them with people who will. My guess is Shanny is on thin ice.

My guess is Shanahan is not in trouble and MLSE will play out next season with Shanahan serving out the last year of his contract. Future beyond this date unknown.

First, Pelley probably doesn’t want to come in and act like the proxy to all Leafs fans who just want to chop off someone’s head because of X playoff results.

Second, a potential new guy to replace Shanahan should be conducted with care, due process and attract the best of the best. Not in haste.

Third, the failure in the chain of command has been at the GM level and below. Is Shanahan too meddlesome? Or is he not meddlesome enough. The accusations don’t really seem to line up.

 

[MarMarSab3]

The era has been disappointing but the results are pretty good for a rank amateur…

Results? Have I missed something ? 1 playoff round win isn't a positive result.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think Rutherford was available when he brought Dubas in. He did bring in Lou Lam for the transition but never should have given the job to Dubas.
Burke won a Cup, he didn't do a very good job either.

Rutherford was gearing up to win 2 cups when the Shanaplan started up. Dubas trading Kessel to Rutherford to kick off their back to back cup runs and our demolition. So that never would have lined up.

The guy who slipped away was Kelly McCrimmon. Don’t think he wanted to be part of the bloated front office with Lou, Dubas and Hunter already in place.

The biggest error was letting Dubas become GM. If you look at the hockey department it’s not exactly like he stocked up with executives and coaches with prior cup winning experience.

 

[Ports]

I don't think Rutherford was available when he brought Dubas in. He did bring in Lou Lam for the transition but never should have given the job to Dubas.
Burke won a Cup, he didn't do a very good job either.

Can’t change history. It’s who they hire now that counts. The Ducks were built by Murray. Burke was just fortunate to be there when they won the cup.

 

[Stephen]

Results? Have I missed something ? 1 playoff round win isn't a positive result.

Leafs have made the playoffs 8ish years in a row under Shanahan, whereas they made the playoffs once in 13 years before. So you might be missing something.

 

[MarMarSab3]

In his prior role he would have dealt with executives all over the league. He'd have a pretty good idea what a GM's job entails. Most people here think they could do the job, a guy being in the league for 30 plus years would have a pretty good grasp.
I'm not defending Shanahan, he's been terrible like many before, but these guys are put into roles all over the league with very little to no experience other than playing.

And for the most part it doesn't work. Being a player is emotional and irrational at times not exactly what you want heading a franchise.

I'm personally extremely disappointed in Shanahan and the style of play he has encouraged since his tenure began. And even with the hiring of Treliving, from the very get go it was always Trelivings job.

Leafs have made the playoffs 8ish years in a row under Shanahan, whereas they made the playoffs once in 13 years before. So you might be missing something.

Because he was gifted Matthews, if just making the playoffs to constantly be eliminated in the first round is positive then our standards have severely gone out the window

 

[Ports]

My guess is Shanahan is not in trouble and MLSE will play out next season with Shanahan serving out the last year of his contract. Future beyond this date unknown.

First, Pelley probably doesn’t want to come in and act like the proxy to all Leafs fans who just want to chop off someone’s head because of X playoff results.

Second, a potential new guy to replace Shanahan should be conducted with care, due process and attract the best of the best. Not in haste.

Third, the failure in the chain of command has been at the GM level and below. Is Shanahan too meddlesome? Or is he not meddlesome enough. The accusations don’t really seem to line up.

Why wait until his contract runs out ? What does that have to do with bringing in a better senior executive? Do you think Shanahan would still have a job with the an organization that demands excellence like the Bruins or Knights ? Not a chance. Shanahan hired Dubas and then created a shit show last spring with the way he handled his firing. Both of them should have been fired a few years ago when they couldn’t get by Columbus or Montreal in the playoffs and just kept running it back. Keeping them around just showed complacency in the organization.

 

[Stephen]

And for the most part it doesn't work. Being a player is emotional and irrational at times not exactly what you want heading a franchise.

I'm personally extremely disappointed in Shanahan and the style of play he has encouraged since his tenure began. And even with the hiring of Treliving, from the very get go it was always Trelivings job.


Because he was gifted Matthews, if just making the playoffs to constantly be eliminated in the first round is positive then our standards have severely gone out the window

Shanahan was not gifted Matthews, the brain trust intentionally timed the tear down in 2015 and 2016 to put the team in the position to win the lottery for McDavid and then Matthews.

That part of the Shanaplan is what actually worked according to plan and where the promises of elite results even came from.

 

[Ports]

The era has been disappointing but the results are pretty good for a rank amateur…

Not sure if this comment is tongue in cheek or serious. Well done.

Leafs have made the playoffs 8ish years in a row under Shanahan, whereas they made the playoffs once in 13 years before. So you might be missing something.

Actually what the team and fans are missing hugely is playoff success. Regular season success is no longer just the objective of this team.

 

[Stephen]

Why wait until his contract runs out ? What does that have to do with bringing in a better senior executive? Do you think Shanahan would still have a job with the an organization that demands excellence like the Bruins or Knights ? Not a chance. Shanahan hired Dubas and then created a shit show last spring with the way he handled his firing. Both of them should have been fired a few years ago when they couldn’t get by Columbus or Montreal in the playoffs and just kept running it back. Keeping them around just showed complacency in the organization.

Every year the Leafs underachieve, all I want to do is demolish everything in anger and start over with an expansion team, new faces, no baggage. No history.

I think wanting to fire Shanahan is equivalent to that blow it all up desire but if you’re honest, I can’t think of what needs to occur at the hockey ops level that requires a new CEO. Better RHD’s? A new coach? Remove one of the Big 4?

 

[Stephen]

Actually what the team and fans are missing hugely is playoff success. Regular season success is no longer just the objective of this team.

How does a new CEO win you an elimination game? Everything that needs to happen is at the hockey ops level.

What is the actual mandate of the next CEO? Tell the GM to trade for X, Y, Z?

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Every year the Leafs underachieve, all I want to do is demolish everything in anger and start over with an expansion team, new faces, no baggage. No history.

I think wanting to fire Shanahan is equivalent to that blow it all up desire but if you’re honest, I can’t think of what needs to occur at the hockey ops level that requires a new CEO. Better RHD’s? A new coach? Remove one of the Big 4?

New name?

I feel your pain.

 

[Martin Skoula]

How else would you know what a GM should be doing if you haven't been there yourself, there is a reason most if not all Presidents have been Gms at some point

He worked for the league as D.O.P.S ,not really a role you develop presidential skills

Not to mention his time at the DOPS was the opposite of successful management skills and made the game worse short and longterm. The only reason no one talks about the Shanny DOPS years is because they hired a guy with severe chronic brain damage to replace him.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Every year the Leafs underachieve, all I want to do is demolish everything in anger and start over with an expansion team, new faces, no baggage. No history.

I think wanting to fire Shanahan is equivalent to that blow it all up desire but if you’re honest, I can’t think of what needs to occur at the hockey ops level that requires a new CEO. Better RHD’s? A new coach? Remove one of the Big 4?

I'm already pre-angry about our 1st or 2nd round exit.

 

[Stephen]

I'm already pre-angry about our 1st or 2nd round exit.

Yeah no kidding. I get the raw emotions of it for sure.

Just think you’re more likely to see the heads will roll style purges in more of a mom and pop franchise than a big corporate giant where things aren’t actually a tire fire, but feel like a tire fire. If that makes sense.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think Rutherford was available when he brought Dubas in. He did bring in Lou Lam for the transition but never should have given the job to Dubas.
Burke won a Cup, he didn't do a very good job either.

Interestingly, I believe it's actually exceedingly rare for a front office guy (at least at the GM level) to have multiple cups on different teams, at least as far as the salary cap era goes. I can't think of a single one off the top of my head whose done it on different teams.

Of course that doesn't mean it can never happen, but a curious finding nonetheless

 

[Ports]

How does a new CEO win you an elimination game? Everything that needs to happen is at the hockey ops level.

What is the actual mandate of the next CEO? Tell the GM to trade for X, Y, Z?

Build a Cup contender by developing a team building philosophy and hiring the GM to carry that out. Dubas was a mistake because he was inexperienced and had to learn on the job. But Shanahan jumped the gun on his own plan and made a mistake by signing Tavares at $11M as a second line centre when they needed help on the blueline. That and continuing to ignore that problem is his responsibility because he came out every Spring and said they were just going to run it back with the same failed core group. Ten years is plenty of time to get it done and so far they have one playoff series win to show for it. An organization that demands excellence like the Bruins would have canned him 2-3 years ago.