Thoughts on Keith Pelley - President and CEO MLSE

[theTTC]

Even for MLSE, six or seven years of not getting past the first round of the playoffs has to be a significant blow to the bottom line. And not even making the playoffs after the "play-in" loss to Columbus? Huge revenue miss. Someone please explain how fraudster Chauncy Gardener Shanahan has withstood all that?

 

[theTTC]

Yep.

Some of the darkest periods in Leafs history is when we had an interventionist ownership on hockey operations decisions. It's odd some in here want a return to that

I say this past decade is a darkest period. At least with individual ownership I was constantly entertained. How's the dull grey emotionless MLSE blob working for you?

 

[Menzinger]

I say this past decade is a darkest period. At least with individual ownership I was constantly entertained. How's the dull grey emotionless MLSE blob working for you?

In the past individual owners have outright refused to sign players because they didn't want to spend money. The idea that this past decade was somehow worse than even 2004-2014 is nonsense, let alone say the Ballard years.

It’s not that Pelley will be making hockey decisions but maybe he believes the people managing the hockey operations need to be replaced. Remember, Lieweke is a business guy but made the decision to hire Shanahan, so of he can do it why not Pelley. Also, the one thing that can materially impact in a meaningful way the value of the franchise is a championship.

They can also make things worse. I can understand wanting managerial changes. But be careful what you wish for when it comes to overly interventionist non-hockey people

 

[capfit9]

In the past individual owners have outright refused to sign players because they didn't want to spend money. The idea that this past decade was somehow worse than even 2004-2014 is nonsense, let alone say the Ballard years.



They can also make things worse. I can understand wanting managerial changes. But be careful what you wish for when it comes to overly interventionist non-hockey people

Or they make things better.

 

[Stephen]

It’s not that Pelley will be making hockey decisions but maybe he believes the people managing the hockey operations need to be replaced. Remember, Lieweke is a business guy but made the decision to hire Shanahan, so of he can do it why not Pelley. Also, the one thing that can materially impact in a meaningful way the value of the franchise is a championship.

The idea of Pelley coming in to fire Shanahan is premised on the idea that he’s some kind of fan who will do the emotional thing people want to see and make someone pay for this travesty of… the most lucrative team in the league full of star power, with unrealized championship potential.

The Leaf roster is on the cusp of great things but may not get over the hump. I get the frustration. But it’s not really a CEO level problem.

 

[Squiffy]

Or they make things better.

Can’t really think of any examples, at least in NA pro sports?

One thinks of Ballard, Wirtz, Jerry Jones, Dolan, Steinbrenner thinking of prominent interventionist owners. Disasters, all of them, although probably extreme examples. Maybe Mark Cuban?

Vegas might have a do whatever it takes mandate (and they are going to pay the piper fairly soon, but they also won so who cares) but they don’t have an owner meddling in hockey ops. If there is any franchise in the hockey world that should look at their history as a fan base and say “no, never, please for the love of all things, keep ownership out of direct hockey decisions”, it’s us, maybe Chicago too.

I give this ownership group credit on that. The results have not been there, but by all appearances they do seem to have appreciated that they need to not pretend to be hockey people and make hockey decisions, just sign off on it. Sadly, that fact by itself is a massive upgrade on the 40-odd years that came before it.

We are definitely getting to a point to question the head of hockey ops. They should, presume they will. Team has been stacked for half a decade with elite talent. I don’t think new CEO comes in and sweeps clean, seems too fast. Could happen I guess?

If you are going new vision, it’s a bold move, but maybe this offseason is better then next to do new President of Hockey Ops. We are mostly locked in next season, but little committed the season beyond. You’d want a new guy to have the year to maneuver prior to 25-26. Wouldn’t want to do making a boss change in offseason 24-25, that’s another Bundy scramble move that we saw this year (4 tds in 1 game).

A first round exit might do it. Do it this year if you are doing it, dropping Shanny, otherwise lock in.

 

[Ciao]

I say this past decade is a darkest period. At least with individual ownership I was constantly entertained. How's the dull grey emotionless MLSE blob working for you?

You were entertained by John Brophy coaching John Kordic after Gord Stellick traded Russ Courtnall straight up for that plug, one-for-one, were you?

You were entertained by Harold Ballard firing Roger Neilsen and then asking him to come in with a brown paper bag over his head after he re- hired him?

You have piss-poor taste in entertainment, and should give your head a shake.

 

[theTTC]

I give this ownership group credit on that. The results have not been there,

In pro sports, from a fans perspective, what other arbiter of results is there but winning? Maybe being an entertaining team is another kind of result? Leafs have done nothing but lose under MLSE. And have failed very very boringly and disgustingly.

An early exit in the playoffs, okay, but I don't want to watch his linemates scurrying away while best-player-in-the-league Matty gets dummied by Stamkos. Credit to the ownership group, indeed, for this current incarnation of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Can’t really think of any examples, at least in NA pro sports?

One thinks of Ballard, Wirtz, Jerry Jones, Dolan, Steinbrenner thinking of prominent interventionist owners. Disasters, all of them, although probably extreme examples. Maybe Mark Cuban?

Vegas might have a do whatever it takes mandate (and they are going to pay the piper fairly soon, but they also won so who cares) but they don’t have an owner meddling in hockey ops. If there is any franchise in the hockey world that should look at their history as a fan base and say “no, never, please for the love of all things, keep ownership out of direct hockey decisions”, it’s us, maybe Chicago too.

I give this ownership group credit on that. The results have not been there, but by all appearances they do seem to have appreciated that they need to not pretend to be hockey people and make hockey decisions, just sign off on it. Sadly, that fact by itself is a massive upgrade on the 40-odd years that came before it.

We are definitely getting to a point to question the head of hockey ops. They should, presume they will. Team has been stacked for half a decade with elite talent. I don’t think new CEO comes in and sweeps clean, seems too fast. Could happen I guess?

If you are going new vision, it’s a bold move, but maybe this offseason is better then next to do new President of Hockey Ops. We are mostly locked in next season, but little committed the season beyond. You’d want a new guy to have the year to maneuver prior to 25-26. Wouldn’t want to do making a boss change in offseason 24-25, that’s another Bundy scramble move that we saw this year (4 tds in 1 game).

A first round exit might do it. Do it this year if you are doing it, dropping Shanny, otherwise lock in.

It is very unlikely, a change with occur due to the presence of a new CEO. I still miss Liewicke and his enthusiasm, it was infectious from top down.

Shanny is well liked as far I know, but for sure the results currently are weighing heavy on the boards’ mind.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

New CEO or not, is it possible the board decides to let Shanahan go anyway?

 

[ACC1224]

New CEO or not, is it possible the board decides to let Shanahan go anyway?

Yes, it's always a possibility.

 

[thewave]

It is very unlikely, a change with occur due to the presence of a new CEO. I still miss Liewicke and his enthusiasm, it was infectious from top down.

Shanny is well liked as far I know, but for sure the results currently are weighing heavy on the boards’ mind.

The problem with MLSE is employees know it's the gravy train job. Nobody with the interest in making money will rock the boat. Never ever unless they are a Tim Liew type of person who just doesn't give a damn. The next city will pay him as much or more.

Toronto for all its blessings attracts snakes that tell everyone what they want to hear. The political snake class promising everything and delivering nothing.

That's MLSE and many other major corporations around the world. What happens after this goes on too long? Just look a General Motors. The Leafs are the GM of hockey laughing at Toyota and VW in the 1980s calling them tire kickers. Soon the past success of the franchise will be a long gone memory and in a digital age kids will follow a non city team. Because why not?

Nothing changes until things get really bad so if the ivory tower class wants to fall on its sword within a decade or two, they better make a winner.

 

[capfit9]

The idea of Pelley coming in to fire Shanahan is premised on the idea that he’s some kind of fan who will do the emotional thing people want to see and make someone pay for this travesty of… the most lucrative team in the league full of star power, with unrealized championship potential.

The Leaf roster is on the cusp of great things but may not get over the hump. I get the frustration. But it’s not really a CEO level problem.

Inferring here that Shanahan deserves some type of credit for this franchise being lucrative is frankly mind boggling, JFJ could be running the show and they would still be one the highest revenue generating teams, it the brand not Shanahan.

Also winning one round in the past 10 years under Shanahan’s vision is objectively bad & an underperformance commensurate to Jarmo Kekalainen, especially given the star power being referred to. That is not emotional just factual.

 

[Stephen]

Inferring here that Shanahan deserves some type of credit for this franchise being lucrative is frankly mind boggling, JFJ could be running the show and they would still be one the highest revenue generating teams, it the brand not Shanahan.

Also winning one round in the past 10 years under Shanahan’s vision is objectively bad & an underperformance commensurate to Jarmo Kekalainen, especially given the star power being referred to. That is not emotional just factual.

The situation is not commensurate to Columbus because Jarmo Kekalainen was a GM of a losing franchise. That level of management was Kyle Dubas and now Brad Treliving. Brendan Shanahan is John Davidson in this power structure.

Broadly speaking, the Leafs are a financial juggernaut, doesn’t really matter if it’s on auto pilot or not. And is an annual playoff team with young marketable star power that seems positioned at the cusp of greatness… I don’t know if they will ever get over the hump, to our endless frustration…

But at the executive level you’re going to fire a president because you don’t like the state of their RHD or you want a better core group? Or whatever at the hockey ops level?

I don’t think big corporations micromanage themselves like that when things are pretty good on paper. Or that a new executive would come in, fire everyone and shorten his own runway. If Pelley comes in and blows up the core, the Leafs tank it in the standings, you don’t think he’ll be accused of being a bean counter gone awry and get booted in short order?

 

[Racer88]

Never heard of him but I hope he cleans house and dumps Shanny

 

[Menzinger]

New CEO or not, is it possible the board decides to let Shanahan go anyway?

Probably not.

Shanahan's current deal runs through to the end of the 2024-2025 season. He will likely finish that deal at minimum. Whether or not he is given a new extension (or even wants one) remains to be seen.

I'd be very surprised if the MLSE board approves any decision that results in them having to pay out Shanny's final year + hires a new high priced executive at the same time

 

[Stephen]

You were entertained by John Brophy coaching John Kordic after Gord Stellick traded Russ Courtnall straight up for that plug, one-for-one, were you?

You were entertained by Harold Ballard firing Roger Neilsen and then asking him to come in with a brown paper bag over his head after he re- hired him?

You have piss-poor taste in entertainment, and should give your head a shake.

As a Leaf fan growing up in the 1970s, coming of age in the 1980s, I think Brendan Shanahan's management philosophy, holding onto the core and that incessant stability comes from watching the Sittler/McDonald/Imlach Leafs get torn to shreds based on mandated trades, punishing the core, firing the coach, all the emotional circus act stuff that put the organization into a tailspin till the early 90s.

Maybe it's an overcorrection, maybe it will be rewarded some day soon. But at least this era hasn't already been undone by the "Marner trade" or the "Nylander trade" as the one that really ended it a la OKC Thunder when they got rid of Harden, lost Durant and were suddenly left with just Westbrook.

Blessing or curse, whatever promise that 2017 team had that it wasn't able to deliver on. The possibility is still there. I'm not satisfied with Shanahan, I'm not happy with the underachieving time wasting Dubas years. I don't love everything I see from the core guys. But I also don't see the best course of action being to have a new guy come in, bark some orders, fire a few guys for the emotional satisfaction and then realize major damage has been done to the team.

 

[Stephen]

Probably not.

Shanahan's current deal runs through to the end of the 2024-2025 season. He will likely finish that deal at minimum. Whether or not he is given a new extension (or even wants one) remains to be seen.

I'd be very surprised if the MLSE board approves any decision that results in them having to pay out Shanny's final year + hires a new high priced executive at the same time

Also, who do you hire as a replacement? Kelly McCrimmon? Yeah sure. Some corporate retread just for a new talking head? Probably not.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Also, who do you hire as a replacement? Kelly McCrimmon? Yeah sure. Some corporate retread just for a new talking head? Probably not.

Doug Armstrong, team needs a true hockey executive at its head.

 

[ACC1224]

Doug Armstrong, team needs a true hockey executive at its head.

That was Shanahan when he was brought in.
Can't recall the last President the team had that wasn't a hockey guy, guess it was before MLSE days.

 

[maskingagent]

I don't know what his past is, but I wonder if he is content for the franchise to continue a 9th year or so, of the same "rinse and repeat ? A team built for the regular season and not the post season. I guess this summer we will find out after a 1st or 2nd round exit.

 

[Ports]

What do you need a college degree to run a hockey team for? Not that I am defending Shanny, he has had more then enough time....I just don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a hockey guy running the show.

Experience running and building and a team would have helped. TML should not be a training ground.

 

[Ports]

I had a friend pretty connected in the hockey world tell me that Tanenbaum loves Shanahan so maybe MLSE wants a boss for Shanahan below the Board level. I hope they fire him and bring in a more experienced President who’s actually built a cup contender.

 

[MarMarSab3]

That was Shanahan when he was brought in.
Can't recall the last President the team had that wasn't a hockey guy, guess it was before MLSE days.

Shanahan was never a hockey executive, never held an AGM or GM position to know the ins/outs. He was never qualified for the job.

 

[Niagara Bill]

It’s not that Pelley will be making hockey decisions but maybe he believes the people managing the hockey operations need to be replaced. Remember, Lieweke is a business guy but made the decision to hire Shanahan, so of he can do it why not Pelley. Also, the one thing that can materially impact in a meaningful way the value of the franchise is a championship.

Lieweke would also have fired Shanahan by now