Confirmed with Link: This is a bad hockey team (22-23 edition)

[Mandar]

last 2 losses have come without Sam and Joe announcing....coincidence?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Also, I don't think it's a problem, exactly.

If Kreider is less like Bill Guerin and more like Tomas Holmstrom, that's fine. He used to be a good player and now he's a....different good player? Like, it's fine.

Just play him like it. Get him away from Zibanejad and play him a bit less at ES. Give him an extra 10-20 seconds on some powerplays which would help the second unit be less ass.

Nobody is saying Kreider is a bum, we're saying he's changed and we're deploying him like he hasn't.

He scored 52 f***ing goals. He almost doubled his previous career mark. The idea that he's changed should be a take as cold as Pluto.

For the record, I'm all for mixing up the lines But the hyperbole around him (and other players throughout the season) is so goddam annoying. People sound like a bunch of entitles brats the second shit goes bad.

 

[Machinehead]

It reminds me of Rick Nash.

Rick Nash was Jesus Christ at even strength and always kinda ripped one on the powerplay. Naturally, that unformed cell AV played the shit out of him on the powerplay.

The discussion always became "I like Nash, I don't like Nash." The discussion should have been "we're using Nash wrong."

We're using Kreider kinda wrong.

 

[rangersfansince08]

If you don't like "all he does is tips" then does "Kreider might be the best net-front player in the history of the NHL" sound better?

We're just talking about how players should be used.

Rangers fans: Kreider sucks, all he does is tip goals in from front of the net
Also Rangers fans: why does nobody go to net?

 

[Machinehead]

last 2 losses have come without Sam and Joe announcing....coincidence?

Absolutely not. We're 8-0-0 with Sam.

We even go back in time and win the Winnipeg game.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If you don't like "all he does is tips" then does "Kreider might be the best net-front player in the history of the NHL" sound better?

We're just talking about how players should be used.

Well, I think the notion of "all he does is tip in goals" is complete horse shit because they use it as a negative, like anyone can do it. Most people have no clue how hard it is to do, the abuse you take, and how creative and crafty the good ones are at doing it. It's not like the dude stands there leaning on his stick like Tim Kerr did. It's dumb.

 

[17futurecap]

absolutely not letting my wall of text go to waste so here's some hot takes on this season so far that no one asked for (x-posted from the last thread)

1. on the PP teams are defending the Zib one timer well right now and Panarin and Fox haven't figured out that they can't keep playing catch as an alternative. Panarin makes so much room for himself but he keeps looking for that cross ice pass to Zibanejad and passes up a lot of good opportunities because of it. Fox just needs to get pucks on net. This is stupidity. They cost themselves several chances trying to un-super glue the right wall PKer from Zibanejad in the last few games. f***ing give it up and take what you have. Though I think some of this is them being aware that Trochek has not been a reliable shooter in the slot and hasn't recovered pucks well enough to justify these chances.

2. Goodrow sucks. like legit sucks. he is so f***ing slow and talentless. someone can feel free to bring up that he has more points than Kakko and Laf, I don't care. He got a mega contract off the back of being by far the worst player of the 21st century's version of the grind line. Congrats and enjoy it before your buyout.

3. We're running two 4th lines without Chytil. But not just two 4th lines, one of them is a better than average 4th line while the other is probably the worst 4th line in hockey. Carpenter and Reaves on the same line is just hilariously ineffective. Snails laugh at their speed going up the ice. Blais isn't much better because while he's definitely faster and way more talented he can't do anything with it since the other two are about 3 rink lengths away from him when he enters the zone. It doesn't help that 90% of their shifts are with f***ing Schneider and Hajek who are both absolute bozos with and without the puck. I know Reaves has his army of defenders that wax poetic about muh swagger muh culture when we win but it's really telling that the same army is awfully quiet the other 90% of the game where he does absolute f*** all. Where's the swagger now that we need it? Where's the "confidence" he gives them" I'm waiting, they sure could've used it last night.

4. The other line of Vesey-Goodrow-whoever the f*** is fine but that's not a line I want to play more than 7-8 minutes a game. We all said this about Vesey, his game being reinvented is great and he's legitimately a very good defensive forward and grinder now, but he has not a lick of offensive talent or scoring touch to speak of and we have too many players at this point that that title applies to. With Chytil who brought talent and Blais as 3RW, it was better because they were for sure more of a threat, but it still wasn't enough. Blais clearly does not have untapped potential, he's a 3rd line grinder and that's that. He still doesn't have a single RS goal for the Rangers!!! Kravtsov being ballsacks and 10000% useless is another kick in the nuts. we really needed some talent in the bottom 6 and we're seemingly not going to get it. Concur that Krav is very reminiscent of Buch's first year here but Buch flashed talent every game while this dumb f***ing chicken can barely handle a puck without getting mauled. This is a serious problem. We're going to wind up making the exact same trades at the deadline because our bottom 6 is completely useless with the puck. Ironically, they are useless and cost a lot of money. That's usually how it goes here.

5. Kreider has legit not looked good at ES in three years. He is the ultimate floater now. Can't win a battle for shit, no effort in his stride, loses the puck on the boards CONSTANTLY. I wouldn't have such a f***ing issue with this if he PLAYED LESS AT ES. Gallant deploys him like he's a weapon. He's so slow at this point he's actually a liability on 3 on 3 and in other faster situations but he's out there never leaving the ice like he's MacKinnon. I appreciate the billion goals we got out of him last year but we signed him to be a utility, own the boards, own the forecheck type which he decidedly hasn't been since the f***ing thing was signed. He's a third line PP specialist now, so drop him to the f***ing third line and play him like it. So sick of watching him fart over the ice with no tempo and no effort.

6. Schneider could never be a top 4 D and this board will still fellate him because of that time he beat up Sharangovich and sent Boqvist to the shadow realm. He's terrible. He is insanely unreliable defensively and gives entry to the slowest players in the league. I wouldn't have such a problem with this if he got a healthy dose of scratches to watch his mistakes (last year, at least) and WE DIDNT PUT HAJEK ON THE SAME PAIR WHILE HE STRUGGLES!!!!!! Part of why Hajek being the 7D boils my piss so much is that it was telegraphed that Jones would sit a lot. Fine. He probably deserves to. But then you need a 7D that does something. Hajek is utterly useless and makes all of Schneider's many faults even more egregious. We are running the worst bottom pair in the league for the third f***ing year in a row. And I know that everyone's bottom pair sucks but guess what, they still play 10+ minutes at ES. I don't think i'm asking for much to get a bottom pair that brings SOMETHING.

7. Overall though, I think we will be fine. We've definitely tightened up defensively, this team has started slow every year that I can remember, and there's too much talent in the top 6 to be completely feckless. I think this board has a specific look in mind when we're "not getting puck luck". It doesn't look like getting stoned every night on 7-8 A+ chances. It looks like exactly what we're seeing. No bounces going our way, 50/50 pucks going the other way every time, those faceoffs that you win so cleanly your own D aren't ready for it and they leave the zone, goalies not giving rebounds, etc. There are real issues, though, and it feels like these real issues are the same every year and never change. Kinda tired of it.

The best thing Drury could do at the deadline is get two vet dmen for the third pair, and ship Schneider and Jones to Hartford and play 25 min a night.

I guess keep Hajek as a 7th in this scenario, and literally never play him in a meaningful game.

 

[chosen]

Consistent effort and purpose has been his issue... along with the entire team.

Kakko and Panarin being the exemptions... Tro too

Effort is fine.

Execution is a bit off.

 

[Mandar]

Absolutely not. We're 8-0-0 with Sam.

We even go back in time and win the Winnipeg game.

and.....we are undefeated so far on Monday's....

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Well, I think the notion of "all he does is tip in goals" is complete horse shit because they use it as a negative, like anyone can do it. Most people have no clue how hard it is to do, the abuse you take, and how creative and crafty the good ones are at doing it. It's not like the dude stands there leaning on his stick like Tim Kerr did. It's dumb.

Besides only about half his goals last year we’re tips, he had some nice snipes as well. He’s just completely off right now , and needs to get his head together

 

[TheDirtyH]

Just bc we love dom lusbgsukwvsy at the athletic:

16 Stats: Devils on the rise, Lightning struggle on defense, Rasmus Dahlin's hot start

It’s just seven games of data, but the New Jersey Devils (and their numbers) look ready to break through and break out.

theathletic.com

9. Speaking of the power play, the New York Rangers are firing on all cylinders on that front with 13.2 expected goals per 60 through their first eight games. That’s a mark that leads the league by a wide margin, nearly three expected goals per 60 over Calgary to be exact, and nearly five more than their 8.5 per 60 from last season, a mark that ranked fifth in the league.

The only problem is that the Rangers aren’t getting the results for it. The Rangers should have 11 power-play goals on the season, but they only have six. That difference is already enough to be worth nearly one win lost in the standings.

My model was sour on the Rangers to start the season relative to expectations, but their 3-3-2 start is hardly confirmation of that. The team still has the best goalie in the league, an elite power play, and is finally controlling play at five-on-five to the tune of a 54 percent expected goals rate. No time to panic yet.

 

[duhmetreE]

Just bc we love dom lusbgsukwvsy at the athletic:

16 Stats: Devils on the rise, Lightning struggle on defense, Rasmus Dahlin's hot start

It’s just seven games of data, but the New Jersey Devils (and their numbers) look ready to break through and break out.

theathletic.com

My fear...

We were unsustainable last season... horrible xG but winning...

Now, we're going the other way...

Our losing and 'bad luck' is 'unsustainable'... with stronger xG...

This team is infuriating.

 

[DanielBrassard]

We have three regulation losses and all three came with our backup goaltender in net.

they've scored 2 goals in those 3 games. Part of that is bad luck considering they had over 40 shots in 2 of those games but it's not on Halak.

 

[Peltz]

I sorta have no doubt that Kreider is going to turn his game around the moment he gets one or two goals. We saw similar struggles with zib's starts of seasons in the post-covid era. It happens. He may be forcing it at even strength right now.

I hate that we're not winning, but I really don't think we've played too badly. The loss against the defending Stanley Cup champs came from Shesty giving away the puck on the powerplay - he's human and it jumped on him. He still had a HELL of a game.

He's a guy who is going to win us far more games than he loses us, but even that night, he's the reason we got a point - almost 2 points if we could score on the shootout.

Halak, Chytil's injury, and the bottom D pairing are the real issues here. I have no worry about the top 9 when healthy or the top 4 D men, or our starting goalie.

I don't even hate the 4th line as much as people here do - they've had a few good shifts at key times already and pegged the opposing team in their own zone which is all you need them to do.

I just kinda hate Halak and Hajek, and think the team isn't nearly as good without Chytil.

 

[Crease]

My fear...

We were unsustainable last season... horrible xG but winning...

Now, we're going the other way...

Our losing is unsustainable... with stronger xG...

It annoys me that the people who pounded the table for nine months last season and pointed to advanced stats saying the Rangers were not a good team, are the same people who are now saying the Rangers are not a good team despite great advanced stats.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Whenever your team goes through a drought like this you think it never ends and all rationality goes out the table. We have better 5 on 5 stats and an elite goaltender. We should expect things to turn our way soon enough.

It annoys me that the people who pounded the table for nine months last season and pointed to advanced stats saying the Rangers were not a good team, are the same people who are now saying the Rangers are not a good team despite great advanced stats.

Nobody remembers this in the heat of the moment (including myself). It doesn't help that we had losses to David Quinn, the Islanders and Georgiev.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It annoys me that the people who pounded the table for nine months last season and pointed to advanced stats saying the Rangers were not a good team, are the same people who are now saying the Rangers are not a good team despite great advanced stats.

I think that could also point to the limitations that these advanced stats have. Should be a combo of both.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I said it last night and I will say it in this thread. The Rangers have been better than their record, and it's good to see the 5v5 play improved so far. But I question the idea about having a ton of skill especially if the kids aren't going to take the next step. Now to be fair it looked like Chytil was doing just that before he got hurt but we need more from the others. Even Kakko who's been the best of the other youngsters by far.

Luck has played a role, as a few have mentioned this team is not going to shoot 6% all year, and if they do it wasn't meant to be lol. I think we will be a playoff team so i'm not too concerned with the start it's been more frustrating than anything else.

This is a bad hockey team.

 

[duhmetreE]

Luck has played a role, as a few have mentioned this team is not going to shoot 6% all year, and if they do it wasn't meant to be lol. I think we will be a playoff team so i'm not too concerned with the start it's been more frustrating than anything else.

This is a bad hockey team.

Maybe it's my own fault but I'm way beyond this.

Making the playoffs is a pre-requisite. Winning the Cup is the goal.

I don't doubt we make the Playoffs. I doubt we can win the cup with our gameplan/execution.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Not too concerned.

Of course, this team isnt perfect - but they have run into some hot goaltending ,with some breaks not going their way. A lot of posts too.

Last night the Isles allowed 4.34 expected goals at five-on-five. They could have easily got 3 out of 4 points the last two games and the tenor is different around here.

Need to get the PP going again and Chytil back. Yes there are warts and I have big issues with the bottom 6, but I still think they are a better formed club than the team that started last season (not the one that ended it. Not even close)

Kreiders expected goals rank 2nd in the league.
Trocheck, 15th.
I think the offense will come around again.

I did not have Cup aspirations going into this year, despite the run they had. I think it would be foolish to think that given the 4 key UFAs that were added and then subtracted. Those players made a big impact and fit in so well. Maybe they could add a couple more going in this time again, but for now its a weaker team and the expectations need to reflect that. Playoffs are still the goal/expectation

 

[TheDirtyH]

My fear...

We were unsustainable last season... horrible xG but winning...

Now, we're going the other way...

Our losing and 'bad luck' is 'unsustainable'... with stronger xG...

This team is infuriating.

It's a four game losing streak where we're 0-2-2. It's not like we're in March sitting on the devil's record. Maybe we stay stuck in the mid 20s league wide for 5v5 shooting percentage, but does anyone really expect us to stay in the same range for save percentage? Our power play is generating a lot of quality and not converting over four games. Thats a lot more encouraging than the reverse.

 

[JohnC]

I said it the another night but will repeat it here...

They've been the better team in just about every game they've played this season. They've ran into some piss poor scoring luck the past few games and most of the people here immediately default to crying about over passing and what not.

The team's biggest weakness going into the season, a lack of depth at all positions, is now currently exasperating the situation.

They'll be fine.

 

[DialUp]

I don't doubt we make the Playoffs.

This is a playoff team; making the playoffs is not a lock. If we are still under true .500 and have a negative goal differential by the end of Nov, making the playoffs would be a minor miracle. But there's time though.
St. Louis model is not a strat.

 

[duhmetreE]

This is a playoff team; making the playoffs is not a lock. If we are still under true .500 and have a negative goal differential by the end of Nov, making the playoffs would be a minor miracle. So there's time though.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs you would have to think Gallant would be gone or there would be a laundry list of injuries

 

[DialUp]

If this team doesn't make the playoffs you would have to think Gallant would be gone or there would be a laundry list of injuries

Yeah I do think it would be a complete disaster if they don't make the playoffs.