Confirmed with Link: This is a bad hockey team (22-23 edition)

[Raspewtin]

They are getting shots off, but feel the majority are soft balls where a decent goalie will stop most of the time. 42 shots is great but from bad angles and no screen those shots aren't effective.

"Getting no puck luck" doesn't mean every other shot they take was a grade A chance that required elite acrobatics or SOTY reactions to stop. I'm not going to say the Rangers are getting stoned left and right on amazing chances necessarily but just because you "remember" all their shots being bad doesn't mean they aren't still very unlucky. this is the board trying to rationalize why they havent been scoring, but usually the easiest answer is the right one, they just aren't. these streaks happen to every team.

most goalies in the league would not save every shot in a 42 SA performance. because goalies give up bad goals, low percentage goals, average goals that you might sometimes expect a save, or even minutely stoppable goals all the time. most goals are not scored on high percentage, amazing plays, just because most teams don't execute those that often.

 

[will1066]

They are getting shots off, but feel the majority are soft balls where a decent goalie will stop most of the time. 42 shots is great but from bad angles and no screen those shots aren't effective.

Yes. A lot of the chances are isolated plays where it's just between the shooter and goalie. There needs to be people in the lanes and in front of the net providing screens and deflections and generally causing havoc. The teams of the past half-decade have played a squeaky-clean game.

 

[Raspewtin]

Yes. A lot of the chances are isolated plays where it's just between the shooter and goalie. There needs to be people in the lanes and in front of the net providing screens and deflections and generally causing havoc. The teams of the past half-decade have played a squeaky-clean game.

that still provides no explanation as to why they keep putting up 40+ shot performances and getting stoned. you can have a 40+ shot game where literally every shot is from the outside, it is still extremely unlikely statistically they will all be saved. most goals are not scored on high danger plays, mostly low to medium danger.

besides the fact that how we perceive these shots is influenced by whatever the score is. the Rangers objectively pounded the Isles in HD chances last night but it doesn't feel like that because they had 0 goals.

 

[will1066]

"Getting no puck luck" doesn't mean every other shot they take was a grade A chance that required elite acrobatics or SOTY reactions to stop. I'm not going to say the Rangers are getting stoned left and right on amazing chances necessarily but just because you "remember" all their shots being bad doesn't mean they aren't still very unlucky. this is the board trying to rationalize why they havent been scoring, but usually the easiest answer is the right one, they just aren't. these streaks happen to every team.

most goalies in the league would not save every shot in a 42 SA performance. because goalies give up bad goals, low percentage goals, average goals that you might sometimes expect a save, or even minutely stoppable goals all the time. most goals are not scored on high percentage, amazing plays, just because most teams don't execute those that often.

Add to this that other teams are circling us on their calendars and bringing their A games against us, as others have pointed out. We are not an unknown quantity, and they see us as their litmus tests. So do not expect as many easy nights this season where the other team doesn't show up.

Edit: I think this answers your subsequent post. Opponents and their goalies want to play their best against us. Maybe we're running into teams that are just locked in and focused more knowing it's the Rangers on the other side.

 

[Number 9]

"Getting no puck luck" doesn't mean every other shot they take was a grade A chance that required elite acrobatics or SOTY reactions to stop. I'm not going to say the Rangers are getting stoned left and right on amazing chances necessarily but just because you "remember" all their shots being bad doesn't mean they aren't still very unlucky. this is the board trying to rationalize why they havent been scoring, but usually the easiest answer is the right one, they just aren't. these streaks happen to every team.

most goalies in the league would not save every shot in a 42 SA performance. because goalies give up bad goals, low percentage goals, average goals that you might sometimes expect a save, or even minutely stoppable goals all the time. most goals are not scored on high percentage, amazing plays, just because most teams don't execute those that often.

It's a good point, we are in a bad streak and need that one game for a breakout preferably with a Krieder breakout game. The luck will change it always seems to work itself out.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider has legit not looked good at ES in three years. He is the ultimate floater now. Can't win a battle for shit, no effort in his stride, loses the puck on the boards CONSTANTLY. I wouldn't have such a f***ing issue with this if he PLAYED LESS AT ES. Gallant deploys him like he's a weapon. He's so slow at this point he's actually a liability on 3 on 3 and in other faster situations but he's out there never leaving the ice like he's MacKinnon. I appreciate the billion goals we got out of him last year but we signed him to be a utility, own the boards, own the forecheck type which he decidedly hasn't been since the f***ing thing was signed. He's a third line PP specialist now, so drop him to the f***ing third line and play him like it. So sick of watching him fart over the ice with no tempo and no effort.


I have nothing to add, just wanted to copy what @Raspewtin said here.

The guy that lead the team in even strength goals just last year, has not looked good in three years? And the guy who finished 2nd in the fastest skater competition just last year, is so slow?

 

[chosen]

I feel like not having a player or two like copp and vatrano is hurting the team. Those players could jump to 2nd and first lines with no problem while our young players seem too green and aren't there yet. Tons of talent on the top two lines but currently we don't have secondary scorers. I miss last years roster imo it was balanced well.

You're comparing last year's final roster with the opening roster this season.

There will be changes at the deadline. Just about every contender makes moves, then.

 

[Machinehead]

The Columbus game sticks in my head because I was there.

Kakko's pass to Lindgren as Lindgren was skating across the royal road untouched, and Zibanejad's pass to Kakko where Kakko had empty net and half had the defender not gotten an atom on it are probably goals literally the majority of the time.

That's two right there (and two more points for Kakko).

It's not a ton of grade A chances, but it's a 2-1 game in our favor after the first, and it's a different game from there.

And BTW, I don't even think the pass to Kakko across the goal mouth is counted in xG because nobody ever had a shot attempt. That's one thing xG misses.

 

[Leonardo87]

There is a tangibly raised effort on shot volume so far this year. Now consistently out-shooting opponents game after game. However, they are absolutely getting stoned on high-danger sweet chances. What's troubling is that this is occurring consistently against goaltenders who are not considered in the elite class.

For a team that has been criticized in the past for passing too much, to have 40+ SOG in like back to back games is a good sign, but it seems they can't find this middle ground to getting the more quality shots. I'm still going to say it's bad puck luck, and they are just snake bitten now,

 

[Raspewtin]

Add to this that other teams are circling us on their calendars and bringing their A games against us, as others have pointed out. We are not an unknown quantity, and they see us as their litmus tests. So do not expect as many easy nights this season where the other team doesn't show up.

Edit: I think this answers your subsequent post. Opponents and their goalies want to play their best against us. Maybe we're running into teams that are just locked in and focused more knowing it's the Rangers on the other side.

I guess that could be it too. really all i'm trying to say is it's easier to correct low offensive confidence than getting facef***ed at 5 on 5 every single game, and that when we don't score on 40 shots, we probably should've had a goal or two.

worth remembering sorokin is at least the 3rd best goalie in the world.

 

[chosen]

The guy that lead the team in even strength goals just last year, has not looked good in three years? And the guy who finished 2nd in the fastest skater competition just last year, is so slow?

If you continue to add facts to the discussion, I will have no choice but to report you.

 

[Raspewtin]

The guy that lead the team in even strength goals just last year, has not looked good in three years? And the guy who finished 2nd in the fastest skater competition just last year, is so slow?

Yes. Unironically. Yes.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yes. Unironically. Yes.

No. Factually. No.

Edit. He also led the team in postseason goals.

 

[chosen]

The Columbus game sticks in my head because I was there.

Kakko's pass to Lindgren as Lindgren was skating across the royal road untouched, and Zibanejad's pass to Kakko where Kakko had empty net and half had the defender not gotten an atom on it are probably goals literally the majority of the time.

That's two right there (and two more points for Kakko).

It's not a ton of grade A chances, but it's a 2-1 game in our favor after the first, and it's a different game from there.

And BTW, I don't even think the pass to Kakko across the goal mouth is counted in xG because nobody ever had a shot attempt. That's one thing xG misses.

Some players always seem to compile points.

Kakko has been their opposite.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think Kreider is "slow" per se. He's not.

He's "slow" for Kreider to the point where his game has changed significantly.

I don't care if he can still win a race at All-Star Weekend. Could not care less. He's clearly lost a step in real NHL games.

 

[Machinehead]

Some players always seem to compile points.

Kakko has been their opposite.

Yes, I think it's fair to say that's a legitimate concern. It always seems to be him where it doesn't quite go and maybe that's a real thing that can and should be worked on.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't think Kreider is "slow" per se. He's not.

He's "slow" for Kreider to the point where his game has changed significantly.

I don't care if he can still win a race at All-Star Weekend. Could not care less. He's clearly lost a step in real NHL games.

I think you're being dramatic. The season isn't even ten games old. He didn't magically lose a step in the last three months. I've been to three games this season and he still flies. Is he as fast as he was at 20? Probably not but he's still fast enough. His problem is, as it usually is when he's in a funk, he's overthinking, not playing on instincts and seems to have zero confidence at the moment which bleeds into every aspect of a players game.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't think Kreider is "slow" per se. He's not.

He's "slow" for Kreider to the point where his game has changed significantly.

I don't care if he can still win a race at All-Star Weekend. Could not care less. He's clearly lost a step in real NHL games.

Consistent effort and purpose has been his issue... along with the entire team.

Kakko and Panarin being the exemptions... Tro too

 

[Mac n Gs]

To further add more context to what I was saying above, here's a snippet from Dom's article this morning:

16 Stats: Devils on the rise, Lightning struggle on defense, Rasmus Dahlin's hot start

It’s just seven games of data, but the New Jersey Devils (and their numbers) look ready to break through and break out.

theathletic.com

9. Speaking of the power play, the New York Rangers are firing on all cylinders on that front with 13.2 expected goals per 60 through their first eight games. That’s a mark that leads the league by a wide margin, nearly three expected goals per 60 over Calgary to be exact, and nearly five more than their 8.5 per 60 from last season, a mark that ranked fifth in the league.

The only problem is that the Rangers aren’t getting the results for it. The Rangers should have 11 power-play goals on the season, but they only have six. That difference is already enough to be worth nearly one win lost in the standings.

My model was sour on the Rangers to start the season relative to expectations, but their 3-3-2 start is hardly confirmation of that. The team still has the best goalie in the league, an elite power play, and is finally controlling play at five-on-five to the tune of a 54 percent expected goals rate. No time to panic yet.

 

[Machinehead]

I think you're being dramatic. The season isn't even ten games old. He didn't magically lose a step in the last three months. I've been to three games already and he still flies. Is he as fast as he was at 20? Probably not but he's still fast enough. His problem is, as it usually is when he's in a funk, he's overthinking, not playing on instincts and seems to have zero confidence at the moment which bleeds into every aspect of a players game.

No, he didn't magically lose a step in the last three months.

He lost a step years ago when he had a handful of injuries back-to-back.

Kreider reinvented his game probably starting in 20-21 and was completely transformed last year as his goal totals attest to.

 

[Raspewtin]

No. Factually. No.

Edit. He also led the team in postseason goals.

Kreider's fluke 52 goal season is great. I loved every second of it. We needed Kreider's old game of forechecking and puck possession when we extended him and we didn't get it. We haven't gotten it since he extended. I'm not interested in punishing him for scoring or saying goals aren't good but he basically dropped every single other positive attribute he had (whether due to age or a conscious change in style) to turn into the ultimate floater. Good for him, he's good at it, he should go be good at it from the 3rd line since most of his points are PP points anyway (which is fine, he's amazing there). He also got like 19 minutes a game with a PPG center so obviously you'd expect his boxcar numbers to be good. So, yes, he's been lacking at ES because in a twisted way he provides basically nothing but tip ins. Are you not sick of watching every play die on his stick at ES since R1 of the playoffs?

Also can't believe I need to write this but I absolutely don't care about........his skating in the skills contest? I care that he loses battles and footraces he should be winning in real games, sorry

Consistent effort and purpose has been his issue... along with the entire team.

Kakko and Panarin being the exemptions... Tro too

Kreider is especially egregious because as recently as 2019 he........might've been one of the best wingers in the league at things-n-stuff from the wing? And it's all gone, absolutely vanished, and if he's not scoring 52 goals, it's not a good trade.

 

[rangersfansince08]

To further add more context to what I was saying above, here's a snippet from Dom's article this morning:

16 Stats: Devils on the rise, Lightning struggle on defense, Rasmus Dahlin's hot start

It’s just seven games of data, but the New Jersey Devils (and their numbers) look ready to break through and break out.

theathletic.com

That does make me feel a bit better. Hopefully our puck luck reverses.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, I don't think it's a problem, exactly.

If Kreider is less like Bill Guerin and more like Tomas Holmstrom, that's fine. He used to be a good player and now he's a....different good player? Like, it's fine.

Just play him like it. Get him away from Zibanejad and play him a bit less at ES. Give him an extra 10-20 seconds on some powerplays which would help the second unit be less ass.

Nobody is saying Kreider is a bum, we're saying he's changed and we're deploying him like he hasn't.

He scored 52 f***ing goals. He almost doubled his previous career mark. The idea that he's changed should be a take as cold as Pluto.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider's fluke 52 goal season is great. I loved every second of it. We needed Kreider's old game of forechecking and puck possession when we extended him and we didn't get it. We haven't gotten it since he extended. I'm not interested in punishing him for scoring or saying goals aren't good but he basically dropped every single other positive attribute he had (whether due to age or a conscious change in style) to turn into the ultimate floater. Good for him, he's good at it, he should go be good at it from the 3rd line since most of his points are PP points anyway (which is fine, he's amazing there). He also got like 19 minutes a game with a PPG center so obviously you'd expect his boxcar numbers to be good. So, yes, he's been lacking at ES because in a twisted way he provides basically nothing but tip ins. Are you not sick of watching every play die on his stick at ES since R1 of the playoffs?

Also can't believe I need to write this but I absolutely don't care about........his skating in the skills contest? I care that he loses battles and footraces he should be winning in real games, sorry


Kreider is especially egregious because as recently as 2019 he........might've been one of the best wingers in the league at things-n-stuff from the wing? And it's all gone, absolutely vanished, and if he's not scoring 52 goals, it's not a good trade.

This is probably the most comical stuff I've read all day.

He's been about as bad as he can be the last three or four games, I've already said that. But this overdramatic opining on him (and other players for that matter) losing a step, saying all he does is tips in goals and nothing else (which you should try sometime if you think it's so easy, you'd shit your pants) and every play dying on his stick is just garbage. He was one of their best players for the entirety of last season who also led the team in post season goals.

Also, Mika was a disaster the first two months of the season last year, who exactly was carrying who?

 

[Machinehead]

This is probably the most comical stuff I've read all day.

He's been about as bad as he can be the last three or four games, I've already said that. But this overdramatic opining on him (and other players for that matter) losing a step, saying all he does is tips in goals and nothing else (which you should try sometime if you think it's so easy, you'd shit your pants) and every play dying on his stick is just garbage. He was one of their best players for the entirety of last season who also led the team in post season goals.

Also, Mika was a disaster the first two months of the season last year, who exactly was carrying who?

If you don't like "all he does is tips" then does "Kreider might be the best net-front player in the history of the NHL" sound better?

We're just talking about how players should be used.