Things to watch out for during the Habs 2024 campaign / aka All Encompassing Bored Off-season Thread

[Redux91]

He has to be better than Hoffman right?

I mean,
If Tomas Tatar could put up 58 pts and 61 pts on a line with Brendan fckn Gallagher and Philip Danault of all people,
And reached those numbers simply because he was given every opportunity in the top6 and top line minutes just because we had no one else,

I can't imagine a scenario where Newhook doesn't at least do better than what he has shown so far on the scoresheet at such a super young age, now that he will be given those same chances and icetime
And Suzuki,Caufield, Dach even Monahan are all waaaaay better than Danault and Gallagher ever were

(I picked Tatar because he is also a 5"10 LW)

 

[Rapala]

I want to see a player score 40 goals in my lifetime.

Jeeze you haven't been following Ovy?

 

[salbutera]

Lol its as if they dont want to admit they made a mistake.

Everything went as planned of course! They planned for the season ending injury, the total amount of points being the worst ever for a 1st overall, the piss poor play and the like 10 shots in 40 games he took. Get out if here with that bull.

Almost everything did … except the injury shortening his season

You seem to want to ignore Gorton, Hughes & MSL all stated before start of last season, the goal wasn’t production but exposing Slaf to pro lifestyle, specifically what it means to be a pro & learning through osmosis

Can agree or disagree with strategy / approach but that was HuGo & MSLs view

 

[Naslundforever]

I’m curious how many games HEALTHY vets sit over the year to make room for any rookie on a streak outplaying them. Would be a great sign.

 

[Mrb1p]

Almost everything did … except the injury shortening his season

You seem to want to ignore Gorton, Hughes & MSL all stated before start of last season, the goal wasn’t production but exposing Slaf to pro lifestyle, specifically what it means to be a pro & learning through osmosis

Can agree or disagree with strategy / approach but that was HuGo & MSLs view

Thats a load of shit and exactly why Im curious to see if they admit their mistake or they keep peddling lies to the likes of you and Zuki.

 

[Rapala]

You're not setting the barrier very high.

LOL
I'm thinking Newhook and Ylonen simply have to be better than Hoffman+Drouin combined and yes the barrier is set at limbo height but at the same time we've lopped 6.325M off the cap. It's a pressure free situation for both players which is never bad. Newhook in paricular should benefit because I'm sure he was playing tight many nights in Colorado.

 

[Redux91]

I’m curious how many games HEALTHY vets sit over the year to make room for any rookie on a streak outplaying them. Would be a great sign.

Well that all depends
In your view who is a VET that's taking time away from a possible youngster?
We surprisingly got rid of a good amount of dead weight this offseason just offloading edmundson, drouin and Hoffman , all of which thrills me

So I guess it's just Armia and Gallagher?

 

[Naslundforever]

Well that all depends
In your view who is a VET that's taking time away from a possible youngster?
We surprisingly got rid of a good amount of dead weight this offseason just offloading edmundson, drouin and Hoffman , all of which thrills me

So I guess it's just Armia and Gallagher?

With recent moves I don’t know if the vets left are taking away much opportunity (big minutes in Laval can probably be better than 4th line in mtl in many cases). But I am looking for scenarios where you just can’t send a kid on a streak down again from an injury replacement or something because he’s clearly doing too well… Even a D, if the team is on some winning streak with a recent call up playing like a total stud, etc. It’ll signal a transition for me when they start unexpectedly earning spots more so than just going up the ranks by default over the deadwood or following draft rank order. I suppose I could include any kid completely out-playing other prospects we didn’t expect. The next few years should have some of those moments.

Going by the title “things to watch out for” as this is not something you plan.

 

[DAChampion]

Thats a load of shit and exactly why Im curious to see if they admit their mistake or they keep peddling lies to the likes of you and Zuki.

Yeah I think it's probably the case that they simply overestimated Slafkovsky 's preparedness.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah I think it's probably the case that they simply overestimated Slafkovsky 's preparedness.

No, they knew he had plenty of things to work on.

Finland wasn't an option for them, at all.

They didn't think the CHL would make any sense since the things he needed to work on required being in a professional environment.

Ultimately, they decided that they felt the risk of him getting injured was higher in the AHL with the amount of players down there just looking for any opportunity to make a name for themselves.

They had a very detailed development plan in place for him where they gave him a little more and a little more, we just didn't get to see the final touches of his first year development because a fluke knee injury ended his season.

 

[Mrb1p]

They had a very detailed development plan where that made him look like probably the worst NHL player to ever lace them up.

Admitting the mistakes would be so much easier than jumping through a thousand hoops, HuGo aint Sonic and Tails.

Slafkovsky does not suck, Slafkovsky is not a bust, he may not even be negatively impacted by this year, who knows but it is an outright lie to say that the plan worked and was exactly what they expected.

 

[LaP]

Lol its as if they dont want to admit they made a mistake.

Everything went as planned of course! They planned for the season ending injury, the total amount of points being the worst ever for a 1st overall, the piss poor play and the like 10 shots in 40 games he took. Get out if here with that bull.

That's 100% false. People should not throw "facts" like that without fact checking first. Joe Thornton did 7 points in his first NHL season. He was playing on a 4th line but still he did less points.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's 100% false. People should not throw "facts" like that without fact checking first. Joe Thornton did 7 points in his first NHL season. He was playing on a 4th line but still he did less points.

Who cares, it was pathetic, thats it.

 

[ReHabs]

They had a very detailed development plan where that made him look like probably the worst NHL player to ever lace them up.

Admitting the mistakes would be so much easier than jumping through a thousand hoops, HuGo aint Sonic and Tails.

Slafkovsky does not suck, Slafkovsky is not a bust, he may not even be negatively impacted by this year, who knows but it is an outright lie to say that the plan worked and was exactly what they expected.

I've noticed certain commentators here absolutely cannot concede on anything even after the results are clear and definitive. No, instead it is all part of a mysterious masterplan that nobody has ever seen. Real Book of Mormon stuff.

That's 100% false. People should not throw "facts" like that without fact checking first. Joe Thornton did 7 points in his first NHL season. He was playing on a 4th line but still he did less points.

I think what Mrb1p is referring to is the undeniable fact that Slaf had the worst rookie season for the highest picked forward since the 2005 lockout, and even the past 20 seasons. Thornton's rookie season in the mid 90s was indeed worse -- but they're completely different players, completely different prospects, with completely different pedigrees playing in completely different eras. If Slaf started in the 90s he would've been concussed out of the NHL by now.

Hopefully he doesn't also have the worst sophomore season but you and I both know that even if he does there will be a parade of sooth-sayers claiming that it's all part of the masterplan (toxic optimism) and also we shouldn't expect nice things (lowering of expectations).

 

[LaP]

I've noticed certain commentators here absolutely cannot concede on anything even after the results are clear and definitive. No, instead it is all part of a mysterious masterplan that nobody has ever seen. Real Book of Mormon stuff.

I think what Mrb1p is referring to is the undeniable fact that Slaf had the worst rookie season for the highest picked forward since the 2005 lockout, and even the past 20 seasons. Thornton's rookie season in the mid 90s was indeed worse -- but they're completely different players, completely different prospects, with completely different pedigrees playing in completely different eras. If Slaf started in the 90s he would've been concussed out of the NHL by now.

Hopefully he doesn't also have the worst sophomore season but you and I both know that even if he does there will be a parade of sooth-sayers claiming that it's all part of the masterplan (toxic optimism) and also we shouldn't expect nice things (lowering of expectations).

I'd still be very cautious about evaluating a player at 18. For me there's 3 stages in the evaluation of a forward, Obviously everyone is different but usually on average between 18-19 you should not conclude anything. Between 20 and 22 you want to see a constant progression in the kid's game but final judgement should not be made yet. Starting at 23 is where you can start to worry a bit.

I'm not sure what people are expecting from Slafkovsky. It was a bad draft year and Slafkovsky was never meant to be a highly skilled first overall pick. Slafkosky is an unicorn. He projects as a 30 goals and 60 points guy. More than that would be surprising. But this genre of forward you have enough fingers to count them every generation and you usually want them in your team for a cup run.

 

[ReHabs]

I'd still be very cautious about evaluating a player at 18. For me there's 3 stages in the evaluation of a forward, Obviously everyone is different but usually on average between 18-19 you should not conclude anything. Between 20 and 22 you want to see a constant progression in the kid's game but final judgement should not be made yet. Starting at 23 is where you can start to worry a bit.

No one's said otherwise? In fact everybody -- and I mean everybody -- wants his success and hasn't written him off yet. He's very young and very raw. He was put in a position to fail last year.

I'm not sure what people are expecting from Slafkovsky. It was a bad draft year and Slafkovsky was never meant to be a highly skilled first overall pick. Slafkosky is an unicorn. He projects as a 30 goals and 60 points guy. More than that would be surprising. But this genre of forward you have enough fingers to count them every generation and you usually want them in your team for a cup run.

He should be placed in a position to succeed and anybody defending last year's shambolic handling of Slafkovsky's development exhibits ulterior motives. It makes sense for Hughes and MSL to deny fault and blame and insist they had everything under control but it doesn't make any sense for fans to insist last year was a good development year for the kid.

I'm not sure how anybody can on one hand say that we shouldn't expect much from Slaf and that he wasn't a real 1OA and then also say that rushing him to the NHL was perfectly fine. If he wasn't a real 1OA then he shouldn't have been treated like a 1OA by the organization -- very few 18 year olds can thrive in the NHL, at NHL speeds. Slaf struggled in Liiga for heaven's sake and within months he was starting games against Victor Hedman and Roman Josi. It's not ridiculous to want him to thrive as opposed to struggle.

 

[CHwest]

I saw someone a while back who said Newhook reminds him of Troy Terry. Maybe it’s not a bad comparison.

I have to start watching more hockey outside of the Habs, my initial reaction was who the hell is Troy Terry.

 

[SlafySZN]

I have to start watching more hockey outside of the Habs, my initial reaction was who the hell is Troy Terry.

 

[LaP]

No one's said otherwise? In fact everybody -- and I mean everybody -- wants his success and hasn't written him off yet. He's very young and very raw. He was put in a position to fail last year.

He should be placed in a position to succeed and anybody defending last year's shambolic handling of Slafkovsky's development exhibits ulterior motives. It makes sense for Hughes and MSL to deny fault and blame and insist they had everything under control but it doesn't make any sense for fans to insist last year was a good development year for the kid.

I'm not sure how anybody can on one hand say that we shouldn't expect much from Slaf and that he wasn't a real 1OA and then also say that rushing him to the NHL was perfectly fine. If he wasn't a real 1OA then he shouldn't have been treated like a 1OA by the organization -- very few 18 year olds can thrive in the NHL, at NHL speeds. Slaf struggled in Liiga for heaven's sake and within months he was starting games against Victor Hedman and Roman Josi. It's not ridiculous to want him to thrive as opposed to struggle.

Dunno i just never bought into this rushing thing tbh. Bottom team rush their 1st overall pick all the time. And there's no real proofs it has an impact on whatever they succeed or not. It is my opinion that most of the time when a kid do not succeed it's because the team was simply not patient enough and asked too much of the kid too soon or the kid simply was not good enough.

Now i'm not in the CH locker room so i don't know what MSL said to Slafskovky. I think it's more important that MSL sit down with the kid and tell him it'll be a process and do not blame him after every mistakes like MT did. It's important to surround him with good vets too and not hot head like Prust.

Owan Nolan was rushed too by the Nordiques and he had a decent career. Don't think his career would have been better with two more junior years. Nolan also did only 13 points in his first season with the Nordiques. Nolan was a bit like Slafkosky. He was an unicorn who was drafted first overall mostly because he was an unicorn (and because no scout watched Jagr play). Nedved who was drafted 2nd overall the same year as Nolan also did only 16 points in his first season and had a decent career.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dunno i just never bought into this rushing thing tbh. Bottom team rush their 1st overall pick all the time. And there's no real proofs it has an impact on whatever they succeed or not. It is my opinion that most of the time when a kid do not succeed it's because the team was simply not patient enough and asked too much of the kid too soon.

Now i'm not in the CH locker room so i don't know what MSL said to Slafskovky. I think it's more important that MSL sit down with the kid and tell him it'll be a process and do not blame him after every mistakes like MT did. It's important to surround him with good vets too and not hot head like Prust.

Owan Nolan was rushed too by the Nordiques and he had a decent career. Don't think his career would have been better with two more junior years. Nolan also did only 13 points in his first season with the Nordiques. Nolan was a bit like Slafkosky. He was an unicorn who was drafted first overall mostly because he was an unicorn (and because no scout watched Jagr play). Nedved who was drafted 2nd overall the same year as Nolan also did only 16 points in his first season and had a decent career.

I understand why people are scared about 'rushing' but really what happens in those situations is the player is being forced to play safe, not make mistakes, and not try anything skilled.. so they end up not being the player they are destined to be.

The Habs developing Slaf in the NHL was nothing like Galchenyuk being coached by Therrien.

There's a difference there - we will see if the difference is enough to have things go differently. That we don't know yet but I think it's silly to attribute Slaf's development in year 1 to how some of our other young players like Kotkaniemi were developed under a different regime, caoching staff and circumstances.

 

[Gaud]

What are some of the things we should look out for next season, in order to consider it a success?

Here is my suggested list:

- Evaluating how strong the current roster is when healthy? Is it at the level of a bubble team as suggested by that brief experiment last year?
- Can Suzuki, Cauldield, Dach, Barron, and Guhle be consistent over a full season?
- Can Slafkovsky rise to the level of effective middle-six forward?
- How will Roy, Kidney, Mailloux, Trudeau, Mysak, Heineken, Farrel, Mesar, etc do in Laval?
- How will Reinbacher, Engstrom, Huston, Beck do in their respective leagues?
- Can Hughes extract some top-64 picks at the deadline?
- How will the Habs do in the lottery?
- Can MSL fix the power play?

This thread is not intended to ask if the Habs are on the right path, but rather what would be the indicators demonstrating that they are on the right path?

I expect the habs to get 85-90 points this year - probably not enough to make the playoffs.

I think Hughes and co. are happy with the DCore, since they were willing to let Edmunson go. I take it to mean that they feel there is a D pairing that doesnt require a "big brother" type. The biggest impact IMO is if mtl picks up a starting goalie (askarov, hart?).

Having said that, who has looked at our division? It'll be hard not to finish last. Detroit is something the habs can reach and i dont know what to expect from the sens and the bruins, but yikes for florida, TB, Buf, TML

 

[DAChampion]

that made him look like probably the worst NHL player to ever lace them up.

Hyperbole?

 

[Mrb1p]

Hyperbole?

Hyperbole or reality? He brought nothing. Most regular NHLers at least have a single redeeming quality, he did not have one.

Barely cleared one shot per game as a high skill forward that does not bring grit (yet).

 

[ReHabs]

Dunno i just never bought into this rushing thing tbh. Bottom team rush their 1st overall pick all the time. And there's no real proofs it has an impact on whatever they succeed or not. It is my opinion that most of the time when a kid do not succeed it's because the team was simply not patient enough and asked too much of the kid too soon or the kid simply was not good enough.

Well, Slaf had the worst rookie PPG of the top picked forward in last 20 years. It doesn't meant his career is derailed, no, but that's evidence of something. As for not patient enough, I think thrusting him into the NHL when he wasn't even the best player at Rookie Camp, and he certainly wasn't good at Training Camp, and he showed nothing to merit being kept up in the NHL over the course of his season... that's a lack of patience itself.

Now i'm not in the CH locker room so i don't know what MSL said to Slafskovky. I think it's more important that MSL sit down with the kid and tell him it'll be a process and do not blame him after every mistakes like MT did. It's important to surround him with good vets too and not hot head like Prust.

MSL is a God-send but I don't think Therrien or Julien would've even accepted having Slaf in the NHL given his condition and performances. The latter two coaches were trying to win games, MSL is trying to develop the team. Different mandates. (I am in NO way defending how Therrien handled young players).

Owan Nolan was rushed too by the Nordiques and he had a decent career. Don't think his career would have been better with two more junior years. Nolan also did only 13 points in his first season with the Nordiques. Nolan was a bit like Slafkosky. He was an unicorn who was drafted first overall mostly because he was an unicorn (and because no scout watched Jagr play). Nedved who was drafted 2nd overall the same year as Nolan also did only 16 points in his first season and had a decent career.

Good anecdote but too long ago to be relevant to today. A better example is Draisatl -- he was sent back down to juniors. There is no shame in that. There is also no shame in admitting the truth: the Habs handled Slafkovsky wrong last year.

To veer back on topic: Slafkovsky's story will be very closely followed this year. I hope his knee is fully healed from that mysterious injury so he can show us why 51% of the NHL scouts, and the Habs organization, thought he was a worthy 1OA.

 

[Sorinth]

They had a very detailed development plan where that made him look like probably the worst NHL player to ever lace them up.

Admitting the mistakes would be so much easier than jumping through a thousand hoops, HuGo aint Sonic and Tails.

Slafkovsky does not suck, Slafkovsky is not a bust, he may not even be negatively impacted by this year, who knows but it is an outright lie to say that the plan worked and was exactly what they expected.

Him looking bad/not producing as a rookie doesn't mean the plan failed and was a mistake though. Taking an extreme example that isn't going to happen, let's say Slaf puts up 100 points next season, wouldn't that prove that the plan was right because he would have blown past every expectation of his from the draft so they must have done something right, no?

At the end of the day in 4-5 years if Slaf is doing/playing better then his draft expectations which realistically was probably something like 70 point winger then we can probably say the plan worked out well, if he's doing less then that then we can point fingers and say the plan was a mistake.