Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Flyer lurker]

Narrator: sadly, he thought Briere had the capability to be creative

To be fair to take back ry jo to get the first for Walker is creative.

Now Torts creativity ended about the time sammy hagar took over for vh.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The Ristolainen to Jets thing…

 

[BernieParent]

Narrator: sadly, he thought Briere had the capability to be creative

LOL, I almost edited in my follow-up thought that the point is moot because neither player will be traded. But in my small sliver of hope, the Provorov deal was creative if nothing else (and I happen to like the return Briere got).

 

[Flyer lurker]

The Ristolainen to Jets thing…

I remind you the Jets gave up a 1 plus for Mutley.

Just saying.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Which coach/gm was in place when JVR walked for nothing?

Is it worse to be the gm who couldn't get a late pick for jvr or thought ya know Luke Schenn would be perfect for us?

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Is it worse to be the gm who couldn't get a late pick for jvr or thought ya know Luke Schenn would be perfect for us?

Homer for all his faults later on could at least get a team to a cup final. Fletcher just sucks

 

[deadhead]

Homer for all his faults later on could at least get a team to a cup final. Fletcher just sucks

Until they started enforcing the salary cap.

Homer hired Fletcher and decided to "reload" rather than rebuild after 2018-19.
So he put the inevitable off for five years.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Why would we want to inflate Laughton's numbers, we need to keep the cap hit down on his 100% certain extension.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Why would we want to inflate Laughton's numbers, we need to keep the cap hit down on his 100% certain extension.

Lol

 

[freakydallas13]

Until they started enforcing the salary cap.

Homer hired Fletcher and decided to "reload" rather than rebuild after 2018-19.
So he put the inevitable off for five years.

I hate to break it to you, but the salary cap was also enforced while Homer was the GM.

Also, Fletcher was the GM and President. You're allowed to blame him the years he was here for how bad this team was. You don't have to try to absolve him.

 

[deadhead]

I hate to break it to you, but the salary cap was also enforced while Homer was the GM.

Also, Fletcher was the GM and President. You're allowed to blame him the years he was here for how bad this team was. You don't have to try to absolve him.

He did what he was hired to do by Holmgren:
1) keep everyone in the loop
2) WIN NOW
3) don't rock the boat.

Fletcher was mediocre b/c that's what Holmgren (Clarke may have recommended him but it was Holmgren's decision) wanted - someone who'd make the safe moves to get them back in the playoffs.

To give Fletcher credit, he was a decent President, got Comcast to invest a lot more money in analytics, coaching, etc. than they had done under Holmgren/Hextall. But as a GM . . .

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Safe moves to get them back to the playoffs, you say?

Sounds a lot like what the Flyers are doing now.

 

[deadhead]

Safe moves to get them back to the playoffs, you say?

Sounds a lot like what the Flyers are doing now.

Have they traded for a Niskanen or Braun or signed a Hayes?

Quite the opposite, they haven't traded for a veteran center or goalie - that's what a GM with a "win now" mandate (or the prospect of being fired if he doesn't make the POs) would do.

 

[freakydallas13]

He did what he was hired to do by Holmgren:
1) keep everyone in the loop
2) WIN NOW
3) don't rock the boat.

Fletcher was mediocre b/c that's what Holmgren (Clarke may have recommended him but it was Holmgren's decision) wanted - someone who'd make the safe moves to get them back in the playoffs.

To give Fletcher credit, he was a decent President, got Comcast to invest a lot more money in analytics, coaching, etc. than they had done under Holmgren/Hextall. But as a GM . . .

Yes, truly Fletcher went out and was "mediocre" (see: bad) as GM because that was what Homer told him to do.

I know you're trying to make Fletcher look less awful, but you painting him to be nothing but a pathetic "yes man", scuttling around and covering his head with this hands anytime someone so much as looks at him, makes him look even more useless.

Little baby Fletcher, the team's president and general manager, had to make the team bad on purpose because big bad Homer told him to. Charles was incapable of acting or even thinking on his own, because he's basically some tiny crab creature who is afraid of his own shadow?

Okay. What a pathetic husk of a human. Guess we should have hired someone to chew his food for him while we were at it, seeing as he can't do anything on his own. Maybe clean up the drool that pools in the corner of his mouth? Stop him from shoving crayons up his nose? Good to know that's the kind of person this team gives multiple titles and positions of authority to. Sycophantic mouth breathers who are physically incapable of making decisions on their own. Great.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Have they traded for a Niskanen or Braun or signed a Hayes?

Quite the opposite, they haven't traded for a veteran center or goalie - that's what a GM with a "win now" mandate (or the prospect of being fired if he doesn't make the POs) would do.

Given how often you tell me mid-rounders are irrelevant, there should be no material difference between Johnson/Seeler and Niskanen/Braun. I see Braun as at least arguably more different. Certainly not Niskanen.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Have they traded for a Niskanen or Braun or signed a Hayes?

Quite the opposite, they haven't traded for a veteran center or goalie - that's what a GM with a "win now" mandate (or the prospect of being fired if he doesn't make the POs) would do.

They traded for a Johnson and extended a Seeler.

Now I look forward to being told how those were different but by rules set forth and arguments made in the past, they’re not.

 

[deadhead]

They traded for a Johnson and extended a Seeler.

Now I look forward to being told how those were different but by rules set forth and arguments made in the past, they’re not.

A late 4th rd pick with one starting D-man traded and two others injured for a team that was still in the PO race - that was a low cost to show support for the players on the team.

Extending Seeler - would you prefer Ginning?
What was the opportunity cost of extending Seeler? Cap room they didn't need.
Even if they had wanted to trade him, broke his foot March 4, TDL was March 8. Bad timing.

 

[Cody Webster]

A late 4th rd pick with one starting D-man traded and two others injured for a team that was still in the PO race - that was a low cost to show support for the players on the team.

Extending Seeler - would you prefer Ginning?
What was the opportunity cost of extending Seeler? Cap room they didn't need.
Even if they had wanted to trade him, broke his foot March 4, TDL was March 8. Bad timing.

Well for one, they could play Andrae if Seeler wasn't here, they wouldn't need to play Ginning

 

[deadhead]

Given how often you tell me mid-rounders are irrelevant, there should be no material difference between Johnson/Seeler and Niskanen/Braun. I see Braun as at least arguably more different. Certainly not Niskanen.

They gave up Gudas, a 2nd and 3rd for Niskanen and Braun (both in their 30s) and paid Hayes 7x$7.1M when the salary cap was $81.5M (8.7%).
Current cap is $88M, next year projected at $92-95M.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

They gave up Gudas, a 2nd and 3rd for Niskanen and Braun (both in their 30s) and paid Hayes 7x$7.1M when the salary cap was $81.5M (8.7%).
Current cap is $88M, next year projected at $92-95M.

I said nothing about Hayes. Different animal completely. But don't forget the pick they gave up to sign him too.

A 2nd and a 3rd? Who cares? Those almost never turn into anything. You're right. This is so much better.

 

[renberg]

A late 4th rd pick with one starting D-man traded and two others injured for a team that was still in the PO race - that was a low cost to show support for the players on the team.

Here is the continuing problem. This organization had no business thinking that they were in a PO race. They were/are/should be in a rebuild and acting accordingly. If there were/are players couldn’t handle that then too bad. Request a trade or play well enough to draw another team’s interest to obtain them.

 

[deadhead]

I said nothing about Hayes. Different animal completely. But don't forget the pick they gave up to sign him too.

A 2nd and a 3rd? Who cares? Those almost never turn into anything. You're right. This is so much better.

2nds have value, 3rds have limited value, anything past 100 is a lottery ticket.
2010-2020, 44 picks, 3 Flyers had more than a cup of coffee past #100:
Lindblom, Cates and Ersson.

Doesn't make these picks worthless, just not worth fretting over.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

We are so close to self awareness.

Citing the Flyers draft record as if they’re some beacon of greatness sent me.

 

[deadhead]

Here is the continuing problem. This organization had no business thinking that they were in a PO race. They were/are/should be in a rebuild and acting accordingly. If there were/are players couldn’t handle that then too bad. Request a trade or play well enough to draw another team’s interest to obtain them.

These are professional athletes, making the POs is a strong motivator, and PO hockey is a good development experience for young athletes (why they should spend on veterans for LHV to make the AHL POs).

It was a relatively low cost move to give them at least a shot at the POs, spending a 2nd or 3rd on a veteran goalie would have been more effective, but then the cost is higher - balance.

 

[mja]

ChatGPT, write a message board post for HFboards.com defending former Philadelphia Flyers general manager Chuck Fletcher's tenure in the style of deadhead.

Thread Title: Let’s Take a Step Back and Appreciate Chuck Fletcher’s Work with the Flyers


Hey everyone,


I know the current sentiment around here is pretty negative regarding Chuck Fletcher’s tenure as Flyers GM, but I really think we need to take a breath and look at his time in charge from a more balanced perspective. Yes, there were some mistakes, and yes, the team didn’t get over the hump as quickly as many of us hoped, but that doesn’t mean Fletcher’s entire tenure should be dismissed as a failure.


I get it—Fletcher’s time in Philadelphia ended on a sour note, and it’s easy to pile on when things aren’t going well. But before we jump to conclusions, let’s try to remember what he did accomplish and the tough situation he was put in when he took over.


First, let’s talk about the state of the team when Fletcher took over in 2018. The Flyers weren’t exactly in a position to blow things up and start from scratch. They were a middle-of-the-pack team, with some good players but not a clear direction. Fletcher didn’t have the luxury of a full rebuild like some other teams did, and he had to balance trying to stay competitive while also reshaping the roster for the future. That’s a really tough spot to be in. I think a lot of people forget just how difficult it is to juggle short-term competitiveness and long-term planning at the same time.


Look at the trades Fletcher made during his tenure. Fletcher took a chance on Kevin Hayes, giving the Flyers a legitimate top-six center who could help stabilize their depth. The trade for Ryan Ellis was another bold move that didn’t work out due to injuries, but you can’t knock Fletcher for taking a swing on a top-pairing defenseman who was supposed to solidify the blue line. That trade made sense on paper, even if it ultimately didn’t pan out. Not every move worked, but at the time, they were sensible acquisitions aimed at addressing clear roster holes.


And let’s not forget about the draft. Fletcher didn’t have the easiest time picking in the top ten every year, but the Flyers still added some solid prospects under his watch. Joel Farabee and Cam York both have promising futures with the team, and Carter Hart was already showing signs of being a franchise goalie when Fletcher took over. The Flyers also added Bobby Brink and Tyson Foerster, both of whom have real potential. While it wasn’t always perfect, you can’t argue that Fletcher wasn’t trying to bolster the Flyers’ future by adding high-ceiling talent.


Now, I know what some of you are thinking: “But he gave out bad contracts!” And yes, there were some questionable moves, no doubt about it. James van Riemsdyk’s deal was not great, and the deal with Rasmus Ristolainen raised some eyebrows. But again, let’s put it into context. The Flyers were trying to be competitive, and they were in a position where they had to try to keep pace in the Metro, which at the time was one of the best divisions in hockey. Fletcher’s job wasn’t easy, and in a league that values speed and skill more than ever, sometimes you end up with contracts that don’t age as well as you hope. But that doesn’t mean every decision was a total disaster.


When it comes to the coaching hires, Fletcher took a lot of heat for hiring Alain Vigneault and then bringing in Mike Yeo as an interim. But the truth is, Vigneault had a successful track record, and he was supposed to bring the structure and experience the Flyers needed to take the next step. It didn’t work out, but at the time, it was a reasonable move. The same goes for the John Tortorella hiring—I get that Fletcher’s not here to see it through, but Tortorella is a coach that has the potential to turn this franchise around, and he’s a guy who can help shape the culture moving forward. Was it the wrong time for Fletcher to step down? Maybe. But it's not like he didn’t try to get the right people in place.


Let’s also talk about the big-picture moves that Fletcher was trying to make. His goal wasn’t to completely blow it up, and he didn’t want to go into a full rebuild because he was managing a team with a passionate fanbase and an owner who wanted to stay competitive. But with the Flyers struggling to break through in the playoffs, Fletcher made a commitment to transitioning the roster and giving younger players more opportunity. He recognized that it was time to start evolving and looking toward the future.


Was he perfect? Of course not. And there were plenty of mistakes. But Fletcher’s tenure should not be remembered only for those mistakes. He had some legitimate successes and laid the groundwork for the Flyers’ future with important acquisitions and drafts. He tried to balance the immediate need for success with the long-term future of the team. That’s a difficult task that a lot of GMs fail to do.


I think when we look back at his time in Philadelphia, we’ll remember Chuck Fletcher as a GM who tried to do the right thing but struggled with the realities of a difficult situation. Sure, the team didn’t take the leap we all wanted, but it wasn’t for a lack of effort or trying to make bold moves. In the end, the Flyers are in a better position now to build with Daniel Brière as GM than they were when Fletcher took over, but we shouldn’t forget the contributions Fletcher made during his time here. It’s easy to say “he failed” because of where we are right now, but his tenure wasn’t without merit. He deserves some credit for trying to make this team better.


So let’s keep that in mind and avoid writing him off entirely. Hockey is a fickle sport, and managing a team in the middle of a rebuild is one of the toughest jobs in sports. I think Fletcher deserves more credit than he gets for his efforts, even if it didn’t all work out.


Go Flyers.


— Deadhead

It got the length right for one of his shorter essays, threw in an "I think" or two, but ultimately it gave way too much credence to the idea that Fletcher could have possibly done anything wrong to be truly credible. Shame, I was looking forward to our new AI overlords, but it seems we'll have to wait a bit longer. Maybe they'll be ready in 2 more years?