Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Hollywood Cannon]

If Montreal agreed to the trade, we would’ve had back to back picks, so the order doesn’t really matter. I think it’s obvious their #1 target was Michkov, whether we would’ve taken him at 6 or at 7. We met with him in secret, we explored the trade up, but ultimately didn’t need to.

They didn’t want Reinbacher instead of him, they wanted him in addition to Michkov. They were hellbent on coming away with a forward and a big defenseman, as evidenced by passing on Perreault for Bonk later in the 1st round.

Montreal was #5. Arizona was #6.

 

[GKJ]

Just look at some of the trash who were playing forward for the Flyers after his college season ended in 2023. It's not hard to imagine why the Gauthier camp were pissed off Briere wouldn't sign him and play him 10 games. Brendan Lemieux played 16 out of 16 times!

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Chuck didn’t even want Lemieux either.

 

[Boxscore]

If Montreal agreed to the trade, we would’ve had back to back picks, so the order doesn’t really matter. I think it’s obvious their #1 target was Michkov, whether we would’ve taken him at 6 or at 7. We met with him in secret, we explored the trade up, but ultimately didn’t need to.

They didn’t want Reinbacher instead of him, they wanted him in addition to Michkov. They were hellbent on coming away with a forward and a big defenseman, as evidenced by passing on Perreault for Bonk later in the 1st round.

Arizona picked 6th. What if they said "F it" and drafted Michkov at 6?

Either way, I believe you are right when you say, "They were hellbent on coming away with a big defenseman" instead of leaving the draft with the best talent, regardless of position. It happened again this draft when they were "hellbent on taking a center at all costs" even though the clear best player available was a defenseman. What happens next year if there's an elite C available when they pick and they say, "We already got our center and now want a bruising winger with size"? Drafting for need is a vicious cycle that never ends well. You collect talent and let your alphas lead your club and then trade the others for quality supporting pieces.

In 3 years we may look back on...

Gauthier
Perreault
Buium

vs.

Drysdale
Bonk
Luchanko

... and not believe our eyes when it comes to how much better the Flyers could have been.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Watch Cutter win the Calder while MM is playing 7 mins a night learning the Torts way.

Also love seeing lineups saying Brink is odd man out already with Cates and Hot Rod as locks.

This year is gonna SUCK

 

[mr figgles]

I just don't buy that michkov wasn't their target the whole time. He was linked to them endlessly in the weeks leading up to the draft, and had secret meetings conducted in Philly, while he was actively telling other clubs he wouldn't play for them.

He was. I know management sucks and everyone is down on them, but they were all in on Michkov.

 

[Boxscore]

He was. I know management sucks and everyone is down on them, but they were all in on Michkov.

I'm not sure about that. But, they did draft him at 7 and deserve credit for it. Imho, he's probably the most talented player the Flyers ever drafted, right up there with Forsberg. Lindros was a trade, Clarke, Propp, Tocchet, and Barber did it with work ethic, and intangibles, that were added to very good talent. Gagne and Giroux weren't nearly as gifted as Forsberg and Michkov. That's why it's disappointing to see them pass on other talented players to help maximize his skill.

 

[Magua]

I don't know who was the last 18 year old college freshman to burn a year on his ELC. It's not 1 game unless you turn 20 during that calendar year. It's 10 games or it slides. Yes, a handful of game checks is nice, but it doesn't change your RFA/UFA timeline. I've gone back and checked the games left, and it was just barely possible because BC got eliminated early. But it's not common at all. It's not even uncommon. I don't know if it's happened? That part would be an irrational gripe.

Cutter’s got that “clutch gene” though. We can’t forget that.

Being full of himself was what made Flahrcher attracted to him in the first place. Tragic.

 

[thedjpd]

They never said that. Briere misspoke and then clarified that this all happened after he took over as GM in the spring.

Look, If you want to bury your head in the sand and blame CG and CG alone, that’s your right and there will be no convincing you, but the evidence points pretty strongly the other way.

Other than being named “Cutter”, there’s nothing in this kid’s history to suggest he’s a jerk. His teammates and coaches all love him and went out of their way to stick up for him when this went down. And even if he were a jerk, it’s still pretty much unheard of for a player to up and without reason decide he no longer wants to play for a franchise.

Everything about how the Flyers handled this right down to the carefully organized media blitz PR / smear campaign tells you this was likely the organization’s fault. Cutter had a promise they’d burn a year and let him turn pro when he wanted. He wanted to go last year, Briere said “ehhh no I don’t think you’re ready” and it fractured the relationship.

You can argue he should’ve given us another chance, but my response would be “WHY?!?” We’ve ruined so many promising prospects development. We have an asshole at head coach who loves to bench young players. We haven’t won a cup in 40 years. We have absolutely no reason to be arrogant. We should be thanking our lucky stars whenever a top prospect says he’s excited to be a flyer and we should be bending over backwards to keep top talent happy.

Thankfully, even if some fans are still ignorant, it seems like maybe Briere and co learned from this costly lesson. They signed Luchanko immediately, signed Barkey and Bonk, guaranteed Michkov’s people he’d be in the NHL all year.

And hopefully that’s how we do business going forward. There is no reason to play hardball with your talent. Way too much to lose and very little to be gained.

I don’t know the kid personally, but there is absolutely enough of him on record to draw the conclusion that he’s an absolute jerk.

Whether that should matter or not is different, and how things could have been handled, sure, absolutely.

But self-indicating your clutch gene, then dropping 0 points in a championship game, pre-game comments of tears for the other team, then proceeding to lose - yeah, not exactly endearing.

Anybody - I mean anybody - who ghosts a professional sports organization, even one you don’t want to play for, is absolutely a jerk. The circle is too small, and is a big risk. Maybe it doesn’t affect him this time, but it’s never worth it in the end.

All this, will be overlooked because he’s very talented, but to say there’s no signals that the guy is a douche is just a lie.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They never said that. Briere misspoke and then clarified that this all happened after he took over as GM in the spring.

Look, If you want to bury your head in the sand and blame CG and CG alone, that’s your right and there will be no convincing you, but the evidence points pretty strongly the other way.

Other than being named “Cutter”, there’s nothing in this kid’s history to suggest he’s a jerk. His teammates and coaches all love him and went out of their way to stick up for him when this went down. And even if he were a jerk, it’s still pretty much unheard of for a player to up and without reason decide he no longer wants to play for a franchise.

Everything about how the Flyers handled this right down to the carefully organized media blitz PR / smear campaign tells you this was likely the organization’s fault. Cutter had a promise they’d burn a year and let him turn pro when he wanted. He wanted to go last year, Briere said “ehhh no I don’t think you’re ready” and it fractured the relationship.

You can argue he should’ve given us another chance, but my response would be “WHY?!?” We’ve ruined so many promising prospects development. We have an asshole at head coach who loves to bench young players. We haven’t won a cup in 40 years. We have absolutely no reason to be arrogant. We should be thanking our lucky stars whenever a top prospect says he’s excited to be a flyer and we should be bending over backwards to keep top talent happy.

Thankfully, even if some fans are still ignorant, it seems like maybe Briere and co learned from this costly lesson. They signed Luchanko immediately, signed Barkey and Bonk, guaranteed Michkov’s people he’d be in the NHL all year.

And hopefully that’s how we do business going forward. There is no reason to play hardball with your talent. Way too much to lose and very little to be gained.

I can't think of a single prospect who has benefited from their punitive approach to development. There are guys who have succeeded despite it. And many of them, we are left asking what they could have developed and learned if given proper chances.

 

[Beef Invictus]

His first name is William.

But, yeah, the "Cutter" thing is corny. And, usually with all of these "he said, she said" the truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm 100% convinced the Flyers didn't play this perfectly, the same way I think it was inexcusable that Gauthier wouldn't even (reportedly) meet with LeClair or Sharp to smooth things over.

I mean, unless Sharp and LeClair were going to repay him the lost earnings that the Flyers cost him for no reason, what were they going to do? What assurance could they give that the team which screwed him and forever screws with other guys wouldn't keep doing what they've long been doing? The arrogance of Flyers alumni that they could fix this through sheer gravitas certainly says a lot about how this team thinks though.

 

[Boxscore]

I mean, unless Sharp and LeClair were going to repay him the lost earnings that the Flyers cost him for no reason, what were they going to do? What assurance could they give that the team which screwed him and forever screws with other guys wouldn't keep doing what they've long been doing? The arrogance of Flyers alumni that they could fix this through sheer gravitas certainly says a lot about how this team thinks though.

I was unaware of the details of the lost wages and bait-and-switch that you and others are alluding to. If that is the case, then yes, the kid has every right to feel scorned. But, as a 19-year-old, if a USA legend like LeClair wanted to come to speak to me face-to-face, I'd take the high road and do it... there's nothing to lose.

That said, there does seem to still be an arrogance within the organization that could easily rub players the wrong way, the same way it has with the fans, especially the die-hard lifers.

Once I realized Hextall was incompetent, he was dead to me. Fletcher, I despised since day one. Briere, I was (and I'm still) hoping for the best. When he took Michkov I took the bait. Then it turned suspect. This draft was another confirmation we've probably all been duped again. Unless they pull some miracle out of their arses and land Draisaitl, Kaprizov, or trade for an elite talent like Elias Pettersson in an unexpected deal.

 

[orangey]

I don't know who was the last 18 year old college freshman to burn a year on his ELC. It's not 1 game unless you turn 20 during that calendar year. It's 10 games or it slides. Yes, a handful of game checks is nice, but it doesn't change your RFA/UFA timeline. I've gone back and checked the games left, and it was just barely possible because BC got eliminated early. But it's not common at all. It's not even uncommon. I don't know if it's happened? That part would be an irrational gripe.



Being full of himself was what made Flahrcher attracted to him in the first place. Tragic.

They still could have tried hard to sign him and given him some good feels or whatever he needed to maintain the relationship, even if it was going to be very hard to get him 10 games. He still would be a pro and start getting paid which he seems to have wanted. They were ambiguous and cool at the wrong time when he was expecting them to be all about signing him ASAP. Maybe Danny was still thinking they may actually try to rebuild or something so sucking a little longer was ok but the wrong signal was sent at the wrong time for things to so totally flip like that.

Sure I agree he is probably a complete prima Donna but that's the job and you have to handle personalities like that. Imagine if it was the NBA lol. It would be more surprising if he didn't act like that. Well you still need to find a way to make it work. Not that you don't know that or anything but just saying.

 

[Random Forest]

I think people are way too interested in neatly confirming their priors by subscribing to whichever narrative fits them here. I don’t really buy any of them fully.

Sometimes a player just doesn’t want to sign. For no good reason. And that’s okay. Nobody needs a good reason; it’s their right. McGroarty hasn’t been “wronged” by the Jets, and he still wants out.

Anyone reading into the Gauthier ordeal as confirmation of the Flyers ineptitude or confirmation of Gauthier’s rotten character are just seeking confirmation of what they want to believe.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I think people are way too interested in neatly confirming their priors by subscribing to whichever narrative fits them here. I don’t really buy any of them fully.

Sometimes a player just doesn’t want to sign. For no good reason. And that’s okay. Nobody needs a good reason; it’s their right. McGroarty hasn’t been “wronged” by the Jets, and he still wants out.

Anyone reading into the Gauthier ordeal as confirmation of the Flyers ineptitude or confirmation of Gauthier’s rotten character are just seeking confirmation of what they want to believe.

Fair point to a degree.

I'm just tired of talented players being the sacrificial lambs for an inept country club management group. Blamed for the wrong doing of men that never are faced with accountability.

I've seen it to an extent with Richards/Carter, more with Giroux, Voracek, increasingly with Couturier. They happily sent out the wardogs for Gauthier, and don't kid yourself that Michkov isn't the next in line. Lesser examples are found with Farabee, and Frost in the current day.

You can't tell me, even though I wasn't a fan - that the Flyers treated Hayes well. I think it may have been Bundy that said he never heard of a player treated the way Torts was on him. The Ghost saga was a pathetic display of player development. Wasn't Steve Mason pushed to play during injury, something that was part of the fallout of Jeff Reese. They tried to move Sanheim shortly after an extension, only to have it blow up in their faces - and have to mend that relationship?

People get on Buffalo for Eichel, but it's happened here a lot too.

Jones can go on about how he wants the Flyers to be a "destination" again, but he's not looking at his buddies for being part of the problem. We have seen a lot of player turnover in the last decade +. Blamed for poor culture, etc. Without really any turnover aside from Hextall, Fletcher, and Pryor... At some point one has to say it's not the players.

 

[Rebels57]

Arizona picked 6th. What if they said "F it" and drafted Michkov at 6?

Either way, I believe you are right when you say, "They were hellbent on coming away with a big defenseman" instead of leaving the draft with the best talent, regardless of position. It happened again this draft when they were "hellbent on taking a center at all costs" even though the clear best player available was a defenseman. What happens next year if there's an elite C available when they pick and they say, "We already got our center and now want a bruising winger with size"? Drafting for need is a vicious cycle that never ends well. You collect talent and let your alphas lead your club and then trade the others for quality supporting pieces.

In 3 years we may look back on...

Gauthier
Perreault
Buium

vs.

Drysdale
Bonk
Luchanko

... and not believe our eyes when it comes to how much better the Flyers could have been.

Its not hard to believe at all..we have already been living that nightmare with the 2017 Draft.

 

[thedjpd]

I don't know who was the last 18 year old college freshman to burn a year on his ELC. It's not 1 game unless you turn 20 during that calendar year. It's 10 games or it slides. Yes, a handful of game checks is nice, but it doesn't change your RFA/UFA timeline. I've gone back and checked the games left, and it was just barely possible because BC got eliminated early. But it's not common at all. It's not even uncommon. I don't know if it's happened? That part would be an irrational gripe.



Being full of himself was what made Flahrcher attracted to him in the first place. Tragic.

Probably. It’s not a reach to say most professional athletes are narcissistic -

I think people are way too interested in neatly confirming their priors by subscribing to whichever narrative fits them here. I don’t really buy any of them fully.

Sometimes a player just doesn’t want to sign. For no good reason. And that’s okay. Nobody needs a good reason; it’s their right. McGroarty hasn’t been “wronged” by the Jets, and he still wants out.

Anyone reading into the Gauthier ordeal as confirmation of the Flyers ineptitude or confirmation of Gauthier’s rotten character are just seeking confirmation of what they want to believe.

100%. As with anything on multiple fronts, the truth is in the middle.

 

[renberg]

You can't tell me, even though I wasn't a fan - that the Flyers treated Hayes well. I think it may have been Bundy that said he never heard of a player treated the way Torts was on him.

Hard to quibble with your view of the Flyers treatment of most of these guys except for Hayes. There has to be more with his situation than has been publicly exposed. He’s been through too many teams too quickly for something not to be off with him. IDK what it is but his situation has been strange with teams souring on him so fast. The Flyers fault with him was signing him to a ridiculous contract to start.

 

[Rebel247]

Gauthier will be a poor man’s Chris Kreider. Career 25 goal wing. Nothing wrong with that but I don’t see a franchise’s center.

 

[TheKingPin]

Arizona picked 6th. What if they said "F it" and drafted Michkov at 6?

Either way, I believe you are right when you say, "They were hellbent on coming away with a big defenseman" instead of leaving the draft with the best talent, regardless of position. It happened again this draft when they were "hellbent on taking a center at all costs" even though the clear best player available was a defenseman. What happens next year if there's an elite C available when they pick and they say, "We already got our center and now want a bruising winger with size"? Drafting for need is a vicious cycle that never ends well. You collect talent and let your alphas lead your club and then trade the others for quality supporting pieces.

In 3 years we may look back on...

Gauthier
Perreault
Buium

vs.

Drysdale
Bonk
Luchanko

... and not believe our eyes when it comes to how much better the Flyers could have been.

It ain’t happening. That’s a lot of talent left on the table. There just no way Drysdale can narrow that gap. They basically need to win the draft lottery in 2025.

 

[Boxscore]

It ain’t happening. That’s a lot of talent left on the table. There just no way Drysdale can narrow that gap. They basically need to win the draft lottery in 2025.

And not pass on Hagens for McQueen.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Watch Cutter win the Calder while MM is playing 7 mins a night learning the Torts way.

Also love seeing lineups saying Brink is odd man out already with Cates and Hot Rod as locks.

This year is gonna SUCK

wait till MM is healthy scratched the first time he has family in attendance

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Montreal was #5. Arizona was #6.

Oops.

I still think the point holds though… everybody knew AZ wasn’t going to take a Russian prospect who refused to talk to them. Whereas Reinbacher was a possibility. So if the trade went down, maybe they would’ve taken Reinbacher at 5. But that doesn’t mean they preferred him to Michkov. I think Michkov was always their #1 guy (since Bedard was never a possibility).

I’m not exactly thrilled with all of the moves he’s made since, but you gotta give Danny credit for Michkov. He moved silently and deliberately. And then he handled Michkov’s eventual move to the US very tactfully too.

 

[Boxscore]

Gauthier will be a poor man’s Chris Kreider. Career 25 goal wing. Nothing wrong with that but I don’t see a franchise’s center.

Gauthier might hit 25 next season playing with Leo Carlsson. He has 40-goal upside, let's not kid ourselves, lol. That said, screw him.

I’m not exactly thrilled with all of the moves he’s made since, but you gotta give Danny credit for Michkov. He moved silently and deliberately. And then he handled Michkov’s eventual move to the US very tactfully too.

Agree with all of this. But I think passing on Perreault and even Buium more so will haunt Briere for a decade. It will be Hextall's "passing on Makar for Patrick" x10.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Agree with all of this. But I think passing on Perreault and even Buium more so will haunt Briere for a decade. It will be Hextall's "passing on Makar for Patrick" x10.

My biggest grievance with Briere so far is that he acquiesced to Cutter mid-season for a 2nd round pick and an oft-injured defenseman who is behind on the development curve due to his injuries. I think Cutter sitting out 2 more years, when the source of the dispute in the first place was $$$, was a very hollow threat and it was worth the risk of getting nothing to play it out. Or at least to take it to this draft. I think Cutter is superior in almost every respect to Sennecke. Gun to his head, I think Verbeek would’ve traded #3 for Cutter.

I think the Cutter trade was the worst loss of value by far of any Briere move thus far.

I wanted Perreault and Bonk seemed like a reach at the time, but Bonk had a great year and improved his stock. I still agree Perreault is the better prospect, but Bonk is at least somewhat justifying the pick. He looks like a top 20 (I’d say top 15) prospect from that draft, which is fine at #22. Lot of other teams passed on Perreault, wasn’t just us.

Similarly, I would’ve taken Buium this year, but I do think that when a player starts to slide without an obvious reason (medical, size, russian factor, etc.), there’s usually something to that. I was very surprised to see some D prospects that really seem to lack #1 upside going ahead of him and that gives me pause. Will be interesting to see who is right, the draft pundits or the NHL scouts. I was also quite upset with the Luchanko pick at first, but the more I hear and see, the more I’m OK with it. The media kind of seized on Briere’s response to Charlie asking about the center factor and made it sound like we reached for position, but if you look at our FO’s comments in their totality, it sounds more like we had Buium and Luchanko on the same tier and the position may have been the tie-breaker. If that’s the case, the process is OK. One of the guys at the athletic also said multiple other teams in the teens were going to select Luchanko, so if that was our guy (and it sounds like it was), we couldn’t really move down again or we’d risk losing him. Ideally though, when there’s one consensus elite D left on the board, you extract more value than just a future 3rd round pick to trade down.

Berglund was awful. But thankfully that’s “only” a 2nd round pick.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They never said that. Briere misspoke and then clarified that this all happened after he took over as GM in the spring.

You are wrong.

Both Briere and Jones said separately, in multiple interviews, that Cutter's unwillingness to sign started in the fall just months after he was drafted.

Briere has said he was still an assistant to Fletcher when this situation started. Jones said he first heard of it when he was still broadcasting for Comcast.

And Briere certainly never said he (and Jones) "misspoke" (in multiple interviews) about when this started with Cutter.