Therrien on Subban

[poetryinmotion]

Did a quick search on Google about Attraction Images, the production company in charge of CH24.

One of the Associate Producers of CH24, Justin Kingsley (writer, editor and production designer), has the following as his background......

"Among his many creative achievements, this sharp, multitalented strategist and one-time spokesman for the office of the Honourable Paul Martin...."

The same Paul Martin born in Windsor Ontario, educated at the University of Toronto and not a friend to a segment of the population in Quebec.


There you have it. Propaganda from Justin Kingsley, most likely a Leafs fan who edits the show to create a sense of division on the Habs.

(Tinfoil hat removed )

No surprise there. Nice investigating.

 

[Brainiac]

We also forgot that coach or GM have huge egos, they are not necessary masters in relationship or psychology neither. Sometimes it's just hard to put aside personal views to the benefit of the team. We all pray that we imagine problems because we all love the Habs. Sometimes it's true but lot of time when things broke out we will all say that we saw that coming etc...

Subban is the player we can't afford to lose. He will be the best Habs if he remains a Habs. All due respect to Galchenyuk, he'll be the second best in my opinion.

Sorry for the long post

Totally agree with most of your post.

From all we've seen, we can't tell if MT/MB are using a tough love approach or are simply letting their egos get in the way. Both are totally possible and I'm leaning towards the latter so far, unfortunately.

We'll know better at the end of the year. If Subban signs a 2 years deal somewhere next August, he wants out (and has his reasons to do so). If he signs an 8 years extension in the next few months, all is good.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

And after all that he won the Norris and looks even better this year, right?

BTW, he signed a fair contract, he was a challenge and he was unproven, every young player is. And every young player gets low ice time and 3rd pairing.

And he has made some dumb plays this year. Almost on a game by game basis. If the coach doesn't yell at him, who will? Subban understands that, that's why he stays humble in these situations and proves it on the ice. Maybe management knows this. Maybe they know if they let him do whatever the **** he wants, it'll send a bad message to the room and it'll let PK settle into bad habits, which he DOES have. Takes terrible penalties.

Disagree with this entire post.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Totally agree with most of your post.

From all we've seen, we can't tell if MT/MB are using a tough love approach or are simply letting their egos get in the way. Both are totally possible and I'm leaning towards the latter so far, unfortunately.

We'll know better at the end of the year. If Subban signs a 2 years deal somewhere next August, he wants out (and has his reasons to do so). If he signs an 8 years extension in the next few months, all is good.

how so ?

 

[Brainiac]

how so ?

Because we have just seen the 'tough' part of 'tough love'. Can't find a quote where either MB or MT gives significant praise to Subban. Even if you can find one, it's completely disproportionate to all the flack he gets from them.

I mean, come on, when the PK-Markov pair is doing great, all Therrien says is Markov has been known to make his partners better in the past.

 

[icerocket]

Because we have just seen the 'tough' part of 'tough love'. Can't find a quote where either MB or MT gives significant praise to Subban. Even if you can find one, it's completely disproportionate to all the flack he gets from them.

I mean, come on, when the PK-Markov pair is doing great, all Therrien says is Markov has been known to make his partners better in the past.

Think about it though. If we didn't have Subban then Bouillon would get more playing time.

 

[HF-Addict]

Watched that 24CH episode. Michel T. looks like a moron, pulling a temper tantrum and kicking the cooler...Then picking on Subban with no constructive comments whatsoever...Hopefully, they only showed the bad sides of Therrien.... and his speech before the game...lol.

 

[vfactor]

Because we have just seen the 'tough' part of 'tough love'. Can't find a quote where either MB or MT gives significant praise to Subban. Even if you can find one, it's completely disproportionate to all the flack he gets from them.

I mean, come on, when the PK-Markov pair is doing great, all Therrien says is Markov has been known to make his partners better in the past.

This is also possible that Therrien really think that how 'tough love' works. It's possible that he really is in control of the situation because he has seen this before and it worked before etc. However, there's also a strong possibility that Subban is not necessary happy at this moment but he will do his best to be a 'team' player. It won't be sustainable for the long run. At one point, there will be reaction and it probably is too late. Subban surely has his defaults which irritate coaches. Weigh those vs his value to the team and tell if it's worth to bring him down constantly, it's just unfair.

Subban is far from the 'head' case we saw around the league. Yakupov sounds like a head case although he's not half the player Subban is now.

Subban improved in 3-4 years in every single aspect of his game with an eye opened rate. In the league with the best players in the world, in the most difficult position to play, in the offensive AND defensive zone, he probably the type who motivates himself much more than any 'tough love'.

Laviolette made a himself a goofy saying Giroux is the best player in the world is not something we expects from Therrien. It's not necessary, but doing everything to bring the player 'back to earth' even though the Subban is playing like a second time Norris winner is, at least, very strange

 

[ECWHSWI]

Because we have just seen the 'tough' part of 'tough love'. Can't find a quote where either MB or MT gives significant praise to Subban. Even if you can find one, it's completely disproportionate to all the flack he gets from them.

I mean, come on, when the PK-Markov pair is doing great, all Therrien says is Markov has been known to make his partners better in the past.

you wont, it wouldnt sell copies.

 

[vfactor]

Watched that 24CH episode. Michel T. looks like a moron, pulling a temper tantrum and kicking the cooler...Then picking on Subban with no constructive comments whatsoever...Hopefully, they only showed the bad sides of Therrien.... and his speech before the game...lol.

Before this episode, there's already this thread. This episode only confirms that weird attitude Therrien on Subban. Well the argument of all this are only what we 'see' vs 'what really is' doesn't make sense. Why present something negative for the sake of it. Is a hockey club or what happens inside it is that much of a state secrecy that we have to fool people perception of things. What does this bring to viewers except another huge potential of speculation. It's like Therrien will tell Subban just before the yelling 'Remember, this is for the show, don't pay attention, just fool the stupid guys watching this that we have a tough love relationship, I need a good showing of my coaching stuffs here'.

The more scary scenario is actually there're no real acting or things are just like that or worse.

When we all argue that this is just a way to bring the best out of Subban, it means we all hope that it's not really what it is and we also hope that Subban sees and understands it. Is there any proof that this is what it takes to bring Subban to the next level and he is happy OR a bigger threat waiting down the line?

Look at this like this. MB 'challenged' Subban to a bridge contract. It was ok, I am not against it. Subban shut up his big boss with his Norris. It's perfectly good. Challenge accepted and responded. Not a lot of praise from direction or coach. This season, he still plays as a true Norris winner and up to now and we got a pretty controversial statement from coach on Markov pairing + an in front of camera yelling as a coach to a junior player.

Unless, this is all planned for whatever reason it is, it is for sure hard to 'understand'. There's no proof of Subban appreciates this kind of treatment neither. Well, if things are really like it is, if I was Subban, I won't take this kind of bs for long neither. It's ok for a while for the team but it's definitely not healthy.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

I have a bad feeling about this whole MT vs Subban thing. If you look back at the whole Roy debacle the message frkm management at the time was that there was no one player bigger than the team. When MT was hired alot of people were worried about MT and his ac comments about making Subban a better person. Now we're seeing the result. Praising Markov while diminshing Subban's impact and contribution to the team is just way out of line.

I stuck with this team through the Roy implosion I don't think I could continue to support this team if they **** this up.

 

[Kriss E]

you wont, it wouldnt sell copies.

Ah, so it's a media conspiracy. Of course they are editing all the nice things Therrien has to say of PK. Even when it's live, they manage to formulate the words of Therrien.
And of course, they let him praise every other player.

Before PK even played one game with us, Therrien said he wanted to make him a better person. That right there gives you an idea of what they thought of PK.
He knows jack crap about the guy, but he wants to make him a better person. I'm sure Pappa Subban was pleased to hear that.

 

[Kriss E]

hard to blame a forward cause he doesnt know how to play D.

sure, Eller made a mistake... but it's not like he's used to that position you know...

You learn in Atom hockey that when a defensive pinches, you stay back. Eller didn't stay back, he stood still. All he had to do is skate backwards. But yes, of course that's too much to ask of him. Let's just put it all on PK.

 

[vfactor]

It gives the vibe that management is not comfortable or scared (maybe too strong) to admit that Subban is very good because it will go against their belief. They probably saw things from Subban that has nothing to do with hockey that, in their mind, has to be 'fixed' before he could become great.

Coaches are control freaks, Subban probably does things a little bit too much out of coach stubborn ideas of how to do things and when Subban's way still get results, it irritate authority a little.

I don't pretend to know more hockey than MB or Therrien but Subban the player I see in games are pretty much, in my mind, at least top 5 in this league. What he brings to the table is enormous compared to what Therrien seems to pick on him.

If I consider all the factors, I probably won't trade him for any Dman. It's not that exaggerated to say he's among the best player not named Crosby.

For this type of player who doesn't seem to show, do, say anything which give us, the outsiders, the vibe of a head case to receive all the 'negativities' from his coach is very very worrisome.

Unless Subban is superb actor who fooled us all and he's in reality, a not coachable guy, I don't see this kind of treatments from Therrien can do any good for very long.

 

[Lozela]

Marc Denis travels with team and it looks like he saw the same thing

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/l-équilibre-difficile-1.676454

 

[Uber Coca]

Marc Denis travels with team and it looks like he saw the same thing

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/l-équilibre-difficile-1.676454

Nice article by Marc Denis. I like that he remains objective while sharing his experience, unlike most sports journalists/commentators.

He's right, there are a lot of ways to teach someone but it the end, you need to reach this balance between being tough and letting the player exploit his potential.

 

[hototogisu]

Before this episode, there's already this thread. This episode only confirms that weird attitude Therrien on Subban. Well the argument of all this are only what we 'see' vs 'what really is' doesn't make sense. Why present something negative for the sake of it. Is a hockey club or what happens inside it is that much of a state secrecy that we have to fool people perception of things. What does this bring to viewers except another huge potential of speculation. It's like Therrien will tell Subban just before the yelling 'Remember, this is for the show, don't pay attention, just fool the stupid guys watching this that we have a tough love relationship, I need a good showing of my coaching stuffs here'.

With all due respect, it's people like you who make a big deal out of nothing, and then turn around complain when the media makes a big deal out of nothing.

Therrien ripped Subban, but he also gave Gorges **** at the same time. On the first episode this year he called Briere and Murray onto the carpet. Daigneault gave Diaz hell for not being physical enough. Last season we saw Gallant tear Galchenyuk a new one on the bench.

All that happened in the meantime was finishing 1st in the division, Subban winning a Norris, Gallagher finishing a Calder finalist, etc. No one left town in a huff, nobody's development was ruined beyond repair.

I'm not going to say that our coaching staff is infallible...but is it possible you guys are being just a little too sensitive about all of this?

Remember what players used to say about Bowman - you hated him for 364 days and then you got your Cup ring.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

With all due respect, it's people like you who make a big deal out of nothing, and then turn around complain when the media makes a big deal out of nothing.

Therrien ripped Subban, but he also gave Gorges **** at the same time. On the first episode this year he called Briere and Murray onto the carpet. Daigneault gave Diaz hell for not being physical enough. Last season we saw Gallant tear Galchenyuk a new one on the bench.

All that happened in the meantime was finishing 1st in the division, Subban winning a Norris, Gallagher finishing a Calder finalist, etc. No one left town in a huff, nobody's development was ruined beyond repair.

I'm not going to say that our coaching staff is infallible...but is it possible you guys are being just a little too sensitive about all of this?

Remember what players used to say about Bowman - you hated him for 364 days and then you got your Cup ring.

I think Joe Sacco would be the perfect coach for the the fans. He'll be super nice to the players and give them every liberty that even the most spoiled of spoiled brats would envy, all the while leading the team nowhere.

 

[Kriss E]

With all due respect, it's people like you who make a big deal out of nothing, and then turn around complain when the media makes a big deal out of nothing.

Therrien ripped Subban, but he also gave Gorges **** at the same time. On the first episode this year he called Briere and Murray onto the carpet. Daigneault gave Diaz hell for not being physical enough. Last season we saw Gallant tear Galchenyuk a new one on the bench.

All that happened in the meantime was finishing 1st in the division, Subban winning a Norris, Gallagher finishing a Calder finalist, etc. No one left town in a huff, nobody's development was ruined beyond repair.

I'm not going to say that our coaching staff is infallible...but is it possible you guys are being just a little too sensitive about all of this?

Remember what players used to say about Bowman - you hated him for 364 days and then you got your Cup ring.

Well that's just it. It happens to others and then it's someone else. It doesn't happen nearly as much to others as it does to PK. There is no shortage of compliments or praise that can be sent to PK, yet I've never heard any. Maybe it's just me not hearing or reading the coach's comments one night when it happened to be good. All I have is what I've heard or read thus far.
The closest I've heard a compliment from the management group was when they said ''he's good, but still has a lot to learn'', or ''he's good but he can be great'', or crap like this. It seems to go out of their way to always include some negativity behind their compliments whenever speaking of him.
It just seems over the top. Everybody knows players will get earfuls from their coaches if they mess up sometimes. Sometimes is the key word. It seems PK always gets called out.

As I previously stated, if all you did was listen to Therrien's quotes about PK since the beginning of the year, you'd think he was having one heck of a struggling season. Reality is he's been our best player along with Price.

 

[Hoople]

Well that's just it. It happens to others and then it's someone else. It doesn't happen nearly as much to others as it does to PK. There is no shortage of compliments or praise that can be sent to PK, yet I've never heard any. Maybe it's just me not hearing or reading the coach's comments one night when it happened to be good. All I have is what I've heard or read thus far.
The closest I've heard a compliment from the management group was when they said ''he's good, but still has a lot to learn'', or ''he's good but he can be great'', or crap like this. It seems to go out of their way to always include some negativity behind their compliments whenever speaking of him.
It just seems over the top. Everybody knows players will get earfuls from their coaches if they mess up sometimes. Sometimes is the key word. It seems PK always gets called out.

As I previously stated, if all you did was listen to Therrien's quotes about PK since the beginning of the year, you'd think he was having one heck of a struggling season. Reality is he's been our best player along with Price.

Now you are sounding like nothing more than a Subban homer fanboy.

Hoto's post was completely accurate and spot on.

Let it go man. Subban's having another great season. Sit back and enjoy it.

 

[vfactor]

With all due respect, it's people like you who make a big deal out of nothing, and then turn around complain when the media makes a big deal out of nothing.

Therrien ripped Subban, but he also gave Gorges **** at the same time. On the first episode this year he called Briere and Murray onto the carpet. Daigneault gave Diaz hell for not being physical enough. Last season we saw Gallant tear Galchenyuk a new one on the bench.

All that happened in the meantime was finishing 1st in the division, Subban winning a Norris, Gallagher finishing a Calder finalist, etc. No one left town in a huff, nobody's development was ruined beyond repair.

I'm not going to say that our coaching staff is infallible...but is it possible you guys are being just a little too sensitive about all of this?

Remember what players used to say about Bowman - you hated him for 364 days and then you got your Cup ring.

It's possible it's nothing but there're also indicators that it's not so pretty the relationship between Subban and Habs brass.

Scotty Bowman can be as successful as a coach in today NHL ? Do we have the team of the 60-70s Habs with the same level of competitors ? Why do we constantly bash hockey coaches of the last decade as dinosaurs, 'finished and we took a legendary coach from almost half century ago as an example of coaching method? Com'on, give me better example.

Do we see things because we want a coach to kiss the team best player a** 'à la Laviolette' ? Absolutely not. We just saw things that happen only one way in a supposed balance way of coaching or teaching.

With all due respect, we are worried because we saw things we can't really explain and we put arguments into it. We don't and will never can tell the truth cause we're neither Subban nor Therrien but to say that we just invent problems is like avoiding going to see doctors cause we don't have or don't think we have health problems.

 

[hototogisu]

It's possible it's nothing but there're also indicators that it's not so pretty the relationship between Subban and Habs brass.

Scotty Bowman can be as successful as a coach in today NHL ? Do we have the team of the 60-70s Habs with the same level of competitors ? Why do we constantly bash hockey coaches of the last decade as dinosaurs, 'finished and we took a legendary coach from almost half century ago as an example of coaching method? Com'on, give me better example.

Do we see things because we want a coach to kiss the team best player a** 'à la Laviolette' ? Absolutely not. We just saw things that happen only one way in a supposed balance way of coaching or teaching.

With all due respect, we are worried because we saw things we can't really explain and we put arguments into it. We don't and will never can tell the truth cause we're neither Subban nor Therrien but to say that we just invent problems is like avoiding going to see doctors cause we don't have or don't think we have health problems.

The basis of your argument is that the relationship between Subban and the Habs brass may not be so good, and that's a bad thing. My argument is that you may be right that it's not so good, but that it's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it comes as a surprise, but in most jobs, you're not really supposed to like your bosses. They're there to get the most out of you, and often it's not always a pleasurable experience.

So maybe Therrien and Bergevin aren't Subban's best buddies and singing his praises in the media. All they did was coach him to the Norris trophy and his best season to date and he's on track for another great year. Something I'm sure Subban appreciates more than getting patted on the back and told how good he is.

The rest is just conjecture - maybe he's unhappy, maybe they should be nicer, maybe he'll leave. But the one thing that's inarguable is the result - and their coaching and developing methods have produced exceptional results from Subban so far.

 

[Brainiac]

The rest is just conjecture - maybe he's unhappy, maybe they should be nicer, maybe he'll leave. But the one thing that's inarguable is the result - and their coaching and developing methods have produced exceptional results from Subban so far.

In fact, your last point IS conjecture.

I agree the results are great, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's because of MB/MT. The results are great first and foremost because of Subban himself.

 

[hototogisu]

In fact, your last point IS conjecture.

I agree the results are great, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's because of MB/MT. The results are great first and foremost because of Subban himself.

To say he won the Norris because of MB/MT would be conjecture, I agree. But that's not what I said. I just said he's produced great results under their direction, which is true.

The only disputable fact here is that he won the Norris under MB and MT. You can figure out how much or how little they had to do with his success, but that's the only fact of the matter that I'm taking to the bank. And it indicates to me that no matter how much people want to wring their hands over it, things probably can't be that bad between the two parties.

 

[Kriss E]

To say he won the Norris because of MB/MT would be conjecture, I agree. But that's not what I said. I just said he's produced great results under their direction, which is true.

The only disputable fact here is that he won the Norris under MB and MT. You can figure out how much or how little they had to do with his success, but that's the only fact of the matter that I'm taking to the bank. And it indicates to me that no matter how much people want to wring their hands over it, things probably can't be that bad between the two parties.

Except players having good seasons under coaches they dislike or don't get along with isn't this crazy rare thing. We've seen it first hand in Mtl before.

PK has continued his impressive development that started in his junior days. It's not like he was simply a good player that just couldn't seem to reach that higher level and suddenly emerged as this amazing Dman under Therrien. He was already this special amazing kid who could count himself among the best Dman in the NHL.

No doubt, he won the Norris under MB/MT. Indisputable fact. But the way you wrote your post leads readers to believe you credit them for his Norris win.
And you'd think that if things were good, PK wouldn't forget to mention his coach in his Norris trophy year..Especially considering the fact he seemed to have forgotten no one else, except for Bergevin..As much as I hate conspiracies, I just can't shake off this more than peculiar coincidence.

And again, I'm not saying Therrien is this evil mean coach. I'm just saying it looks like he overdoes it at times.