There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[WarriorofTime]

Thought it was interesting, after Game 6 loss against Denver, Jalen Williams of the OKC Thunder took accountability and said we lost because of my shooting. He's third best player, a fringe all star this season, far removed from best player on team. Just turned 24 last month. Yet he still put the loss on himself, not "we had too many passengers" or "just wasn't our day". Tells you about different mentalities of athletes.

 

[T REX]

He is our captain. I am not pissed. And I'll bet you real money if, when asked to elaborate he would include himself as a passenger.

Having lived through the Ballard era, this is peanuts.

You can't get me to hate the Leafs

Who is trying to get you to hate the leafs?

That's what you took from my post? Your captain is an overpaid joke. I've seen more emotion from a corpse.

This isn't personal, this is business. He didn't say he was a passenger so your fake bet is hilarious.

 

[NVious]

Doesn't this chart show Matthews and Marner as the top performing Leafs this series? And the larger issue is the depth players all languishing at the bottom.

To a small extent, it really shows they got clowned by the Panthers as a whole, the difference wasn't a Lorentz or Laughton goal, they got decimated in games 5/7 and they didn't put away the Panthers when they had the chance in game 3 (2 2goal leads), game 4 (2 missed breakaways).

Sure in a non salary cap world, the Leafs go out and add Marchand/Ekblad/Bennet in the offseason, but if all your 11+ million dollar guys are getting massively outplayed, what do you really expect? Again, if they need so much help, why take max money?

I don't think they're confused, they just value money over everything. Rielly was the only one who really left money on the table, I think if he tried to get every last dollar, he would've gotten 9+ million, but the major problem with him is he is terrible. So it's a different problem, whether talent or work ethic, he is also overpaid.

At the end of the day this is the core 5:
The top guys get destroyed by the other teams top players
Tavares and Nylander are scratches, Nylander is great offensively but abysmal defensively, Tavares is a warm body skating around not doing a whole lot of anything
Rielly is extremely sheltered going from a 1D to a 4-6 guy with an ok partner and he still gets destroyed

Fitting end really, they always left you wanting more, kind of like their final series.

 

[coooldude]

So I post about the play, you respond, fabricate a completely different scenario than what actually happened where you somehow give Marner credit for "forcing" the turnover that ended up on his stick, which plainly and clearly did not happen, and when I point out that what you said is a complete and total fabrication on your part (which I charitably called you "misremembering") and now, rather than admitting you were wrong, instead, you claim your point - which wasn't based in reality - went right over my head.

Got it.

You're right - I misremembered that he forced it. I was wrong. However he did pounce on the loose puck and made the right play to Matthews, who was, in fact, also where he was supposed to be, and did, in fact, take a shot that was good enough to be a goal in the NHL through a defender.

But my point... Which you can't acknowledge because you saw somebody wrong on the Internet... Is that dissecting scoring plays like this is a foolish way to evaluate a player's performance.

But go on, continue your miserable whatever-it-is you're doing on here re: the tire fire in Toronto. I'm sure you're right about all of it. Best of luck in your next pedantic online conflict!

 

[FerrisRox]

But my point... Which you can't acknowledge because you saw somebody wrong on the Internet... Is that dissecting scoring plays like this is a foolish way to evaluate a player's performance.

You don't need to use plural. You can use singular, because this is the only "scoring play" that is even an option to be dissected.

That was the entire point. They only had the one scoring play, and while Marner is a world class playmaker, this wasn't much of a play, at all. And while Matthews is a world class goal scorer, this wasn't much of a goal at all.

If you think this is a foolish point to make, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own version of the goal where Marner "forced" a turnover then made a nifty pass to Matthews for a snipe.

That simply didn't happen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Doesn't this chart show Matthews and Marner as the top performing Leafs this series? And the larger issue is the depth players all languishing at the bottom.

It also shows a chart for the entire series. One of the bigger issues with the core four is them wilting as the series progresses. They have a knack for getting their points in the first 2 or 3 games, but then disappearing when it comes down to the series winning/losing games.

Take Matthews for instance. I believe he had 2 assists in either Game 1 or Game 2. He then proceeded to score 2 points in the other 6 games. When looking at "raw production" Matthews had 4 points in 7 games. Still bad for a player of his caliber, but not flat out atrocious. But if you look deeper and remove that ONE game where he had 2 assists, suddenly his production for 6 out of the 7 games does look atrocious.

 

[Muffin]

Thought it was interesting, after Game 6 loss against Denver, Jalen Williams of the OKC Thunder took accountability and said we lost because of my shooting. He's third best player, a fringe all star this season, far removed from best player on team. Just turned 24 last month. Yet he still put the loss on himself, not "we had too many passengers" or "just wasn't our day". Tells you about different mentalities of athletes.

Different sport. NBA players can impact a a game much easier than in a hockey game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Different sport. NBA players can impact a a game much easier than in a hockey game.

Different sport, but accountability, taking ownership, putting team failures on yourself personally, these are universal.

 

[BlueMed]

The problem isn't complicated.

1. The star players are not elevating their game in the playoffs compared to their all-star counterparts.

2. The totality of the roster is competitive but not contender status. Playoff success requires strong defense, goaltending, and depth. No matter how much offensive skill the core 4 has, they can't compensate for lacking in those critical areas. I'm sorry, but you can't knock off the defending champs when your top 4 defensemen are Reilly, McCabe, Tanev, and Carlo while your goaltender is Joseph Woll. I can't believe this even needs to be said.

So yes, they should let Marner walk so they can spend their cap on other areas of the roster.

 

[Breakers]

Bryan Hayes played it out clearly

It wouldnt surprise him in the slightest if Marner is resigned. He doesnt want it to happen. But it wouldnt surprise him if an extension came out of the blue.
The farm system isnt exactly busting with young talent, high picks are scarce, with no 1st round picks.

so do you let 100 points walk out the door?
sign and trade in the best case would be 3rd and 4th round picks.

Tavares seemed confident he is coming back
tough predicament

 

[sampollock]

The problem is isn't complicated.

1. The star players are not elevating their game in the playoffs compared to their all-star counterparts.

2. The totality of the roster is competitive but not contender status. Playoff success requires strong defense, goaltending, and depth. No matter how much offensive skill the core 4 has, they can't compensate for lacking in those critical areas. I'm sorry, but you can't knock off the defending champs when your top 4 defensemen are Reilly, McCabe, Tanev, and Carlo while your goaltender is Joseph Woll. I can't believe this even needs to be said.

So yes, they should let Marner walk so they can spend their cap on other areas of the roster.

AND keep 34 lol
I know he is signed but .....

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

Bryan Hayes played it out clearly

It wouldnt surprise him in the slightest if Marner is resigned. He doesnt want it to happen. But it wouldnt surprise him if an extension came out of the blue.
The farm system isnt exactly busting with young talent, high picks are scarce, with no 1st round picks.

so do you let 100 points walk out the door?
sign and trade in the best case would be 3rd and 4th round picks.

Tavares seemed confident he is coming back
tough predicament

If Matthews demands for his bestest buddy to be back, he will be. The Leafs won't want to risk losing three of the four core members within one summer (JT and Marner via FA, Matthews in a trade request).

I would say that most leaders would want what is best for the team rather than their own personal benefit, but Auston has never shown that to be his primary concern.

 

[sampollock]

If Matthews demands for his bestest buddy to be back, he will be. The Leafs won't want to risk losing three of the four core members within one summer (JT and Marner via FA, Matthews in a trade request).

I would say that most leaders would want what is best for the team rather than his own personal benefit, but Auston has never shown that to be his primary concern.

would that not be funny. nostsrils demands mitch back or nostrils wants out. lol

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I don't think the core 4 (or 5) actually truly like each other.

 

[sampollock]

I don't think the core 4 (or 5) actually truly like each other.

it is because of Bieber, he gets mad if nostrils does not go to the clubs with him

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The problem is isn't complicated.

1. The star players are not elevating their game in the playoffs compared to their all-star counterparts.

2. The totality of the roster is competitive but not contender status. Playoff success requires strong defense, goaltending, and depth. No matter how much offensive skill the core 4 has, they can't compensate for lacking in those critical areas. I'm sorry, but you can't knock off the defending champs when your top 4 defensemen are Reilly, McCabe, Tanev, and Carlo while your goaltender is Joseph Woll. I can't believe this even needs to be said.

So yes, they should let Marner walk so they can spend their cap on other areas of the roster.

#1 is the correct answer, but I don't agree with #2. The Pens won 3 Cups with defense/goaltending very similar to what Toronto had. You can't tell me that Rielly, McCabe, Tanev and Carlo is so much worse than Gonchar, Orpik, Gill and Scuderi, or even worse, the Pens' 2017 defense with Letang out for the year consisting of Hainsey, Dumoulin, Daley and Schultz. And in nets in 2016 you had rookie Matt Murray who was, at the time, as unproven as Joseph Woll.

The difference was the Pens' top guys actually showed up when it mattered. Even if their point totals didn't look very much better overall (though it was a lower scoring era than now), they showed up in important moments. Case in point, Crosby's pedestrian 2016 totals, but looking deeper you see that 3 of his goals were game winners in the Tampa series.

The fact is the Leafs got enough depth scoring (I already listed the point totals for the non-core four guys in the Florida series), the defense was okay, and Woll wasn't the issue. The issue is their core four disappeared when the series was on the line.

 

[Sniper99]

Child abuse

its got no abuse left in it, I'm worn out all the abuse.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Doesn't this chart show Matthews and Marner as the top performing Leafs this series? And the larger issue is the depth players all languishing at the bottom.

You expect the Leafs top line to out-perform their bottom six.

What's revealing about that graph is that almost half of the Panthers roster outperformed Toronto's top player (singular). Toronto isn't winning if you're talking about Matthews being competitive with Florida's middle six.

Florida's depth outperforming all of Toronto's depth is just icing on that cake and speaks to limitations within the Leafs cap structure caused by that top heavy forward corps.

 

[Sniper99]

it is because of Bieber, he gets mad if nostrils does not go to the clubs with him

Maybe they gotta ditch Biebs go hang out with Drake if Drake will let them.

 

[NVious]

Bryan Hayes played it out clearly

It wouldnt surprise him in the slightest if Marner is resigned. He doesnt want it to happen. But it wouldnt surprise him if an extension came out of the blue.
The farm system isnt exactly busting with young talent, high picks are scarce, with no 1st round picks.

so do you let 100 points walk out the door?
sign and trade in the best case would be 3rd and 4th round picks.

Tavares seemed confident he is coming back
tough predicament

This'll never happen.

Mitch turned down 13x8 if not 13.5x8 reported by Dreger who is carrying water for him or his agent.
Mitch when asked if he wanted to be back said he loveD his time in Toronto and loveD being a Leaf (past tense)
Mitch has been a spoiled crybaby for a long time, last year us fans treated him like Gods, this year we have a decade worth of worst experiences with fans being proof Toronto fans are profoundly evil people, why change your tune and dump this info to the media if you wanted to stay?
Mitch would have to turn down more money (easily getting 14+ on the market) for a more toxic situation he is not mentally equipped to handle, why do that?

I guess maybe his wife could make him stay lmfao, but that's about it.

 

[Fatass]

Isn’t Matthews dealing with an injured back? Isn’t Marner leaving July 1?
Those are problems for the Leafs, aren’t they?

 

[sampollock]

Isn’t Matthews dealing with an injured back? Isn’t Marner leaving July 1?
Those are problems for the Leafs, aren’t they?

No
Because nostrils won't say what is up

 

[Fatass]

No
Because nostrils won't say what is up

Saravelli was saying on the radio it’s a back injury. Guys don’t fly to Europe for treatment for something minor. Imo Matthews has something nasty going on with his back.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Saravelli was saying on the radio it’s a back injury. Guys don’t fly to Europe for treatment for something minor. Imo Matthews has something nasty going on with his back.

For certain back problems, there isn't much you can do other than rehab.

 

[Fatass]

For certain back problems, there isn't much you can do other than rehab.

Yup. Surgery often makes back injuries worse. I think Mario had some bad back issues. Matthews might struggle the rest of his career with this?