There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.
- Thread starter awegrzyn
- Start date
Only if they end up with coaches who can finally break their bad habits. I thought that Berube would do it, but when things got tough the Fraud Four crawled back into their safe spaces.
What are you on about?
Selke level defensive play was what was being discussed... either read the posts or sit this one out, please.
JJ68
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2017
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they are marshmellow soft. Not winners.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
What are you talking about?
Forsling makes an outlet pass to his partner Ekblad, and the pass bounces over his stick, where Marner retrieves it. He didn't "force" anything. Watch the play, you aren't remembering this right.
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- Jul 25, 2007
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He didn't force the bounce, but he was in position to jump on the puck and make the simple play. If you negotiate every single point of a player, you have to start negotiating every single almost point or else it's just ridiculous. It's like in fantasy football where people say "if you took away a player's two best games they aren't even that good" or dissect individual games. "Aside from his one scoring play he wasn't even that good." Yeah, that's how it works for many players.
Note, since this is the Leafs and everyone is so heated about everything, that I am not saying anything at all about whether Marner or Matthews suck or are amazing or should be murdered in cold blood or should be re-signed and are unfairly criticized.
All I am saying is it's dumb to discount points for any player because of something like this - "oh, he didn't even deserve that point because the puck bounced to him and he just made a basic play, and it wasn't even that good if a shot." "It was just a tap in." "It was a secondary assist, barely counts." Okay, let's interrogate every shift and scoring chance, then.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
And all I was pointing out was that the only two to record a point, Matthews and Marner, got those points with minimal effort.
Despite what you claimed, Marner did *nothing* to force anything or create that turnover. It literally just landed on his stick after it bounced over Ekblad's tape.
Marner pushed it up to Matthews who scored through the five hole. That's what happened. I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that Marner did something to create this turnover cause he clearly did not.
Drytoast
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- Sep 27, 2017
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If you bring me analytics to try and defend Matthews Marner Nylander and Tavares without addressing their inability to push through and compete during the games that matter for 9 straight seasons...we can't have a conversation.
The reality is they likely got paid too much without having earned their money. Too much money at too early an age with nobody on their level like a Crosby to show them how they are suppose to compete.
There is no fight in these dogs.
The reality is they likely got paid too much without having earned their money. Too much money at too early an age with nobody on their level like a Crosby to show them how they are suppose to compete.
There is no fight in these dogs.
- Jul 25, 2007
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FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
So I post about the play, you respond, fabricate a completely different scenario than what actually happened where you somehow give Marner credit for "forcing" the turnover that ended up on his stick, which plainly and clearly did not happen, and when I point out that what you said is a complete and total fabrication on your part (which I charitably called you "misremembering") and now, rather than admitting you were wrong, instead, you claim your point - which wasn't based in reality - went right over my head.
Got it.
T REX
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- Feb 28, 2013
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After seeing Matthews' post game interviews...zero emotion...zero accountability...I'd be PO'd if I was a Leafs fan.
That guy probably won't ever win a cup or he's given up on it happening in Toronto.
I'd try to move him and get what you can. He needs a change of scenery. Consider it the cost of doing business.
He's not winning anything here. You can tag this post and I'll eat my crow when the time comes but I'll probably starve on this one, though.
That guy probably won't ever win a cup or he's given up on it happening in Toronto.
I'd try to move him and get what you can. He needs a change of scenery. Consider it the cost of doing business.
He's not winning anything here. You can tag this post and I'll eat my crow when the time comes but I'll probably starve on this one, though.
sampollock
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Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Nothing wrong with the players who don’t get it done. They just aren’t supported by players who can get it done for them, do I have that right?
sampollock
Registered User
depending are you talking the core 5 are the ones not getting it done
or just mitch
LaCarriere
Registered User
His whole comment about there being too many passengers is just brutal considering the performance he put out.
If the mysterious, undisclosed injury was a problem he should have took as much time to deal with it at the beginning of the season instead of barely showing up in the playoffs, bringing up an injury, but providing no details, and throwing his entire team under the bus.
If I were his teammates I'd be ripping the C off his sweater and demanding to know who the "passengers" are.
sampollock
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kevsh
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- Nov 28, 2018
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Final four games of the Panthers series:
Matthews - 1 point
Marner - 1
Tavares - 0
Nylander - 0
$40M+ in salary, 2 total points.
Which is precisely the same amount of points as 3rd liner Bobby McMann ($1.35M) and 1 less than 3C Domi ($5M).
So yes, it's the stars.
They just vanished once Panthers decided they wanted to win the series after all. Which if this was the only time it's ever happened could be forgiven, but after 9 years of the same story maybe it is them after all? (Spoiler: It is them)
Matthews - 1 point
Marner - 1
Tavares - 0
Nylander - 0
$40M+ in salary, 2 total points.
Which is precisely the same amount of points as 3rd liner Bobby McMann ($1.35M) and 1 less than 3C Domi ($5M).
So yes, it's the stars.
They just vanished once Panthers decided they wanted to win the series after all. Which if this was the only time it's ever happened could be forgiven, but after 9 years of the same story maybe it is them after all? (Spoiler: It is them)
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Drytoast
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He is our captain. I am not pissed. And I'll bet you real money if, when asked to elaborate he would include himself as a passenger.
Having lived through the Ballard era, this is peanuts.
You can't get me to hate the Leafs
sampollock
Registered User
This is the only important part that a lot of people seem to gloss over when they think fans are overreacting.
This isn't just random bad luck anymore. The Core Four have had many chances to prove their detractors wrong. Now it's time for the organization to break them up.
Commander Clueless
The time is Knies
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Were I a betting man, I would put good money on Marner leaving and a winning a cup in the next few years.
But for whatever combination of reasons, the mix didn't work here.
Could be the atmosphere. Could be team chemistry. Could be a witch's curse. Could be squeezing the team for every penny doesn't get you very far competitively in a flat cap world.
Either way, they gotta do something in Toronto....
But for whatever combination of reasons, the mix didn't work here.
Could be the atmosphere. Could be team chemistry. Could be a witch's curse. Could be squeezing the team for every penny doesn't get you very far competitively in a flat cap world.
Either way, they gotta do something in Toronto....
Plenty wrong as shown here:
How can you win if your 4 best players aren't even sniffing the jock of the other team's best players?
If they need so much help they shouldn't have tried to take every last dollar they could get.
In Toronto everything goes wrong:
Rielly is the last greedy/best guy, but he sucks the most (by far)
There were too many passengers, that's true, but we have too many passengers because the top guys collectively are overpaid by like 15+ million dollar
Oh and the top guys obviously don't perform, Nylander is a great example because people think of him as the "good one" from the others, he's definitely better offensively or at least equal, only problem is he is abysmal defensively/lazy and unwilling to get dirty
Management has allowed Shanahan to do this for basically 10 years now, again all parts of the problem (Shanahan's horrendous decisions, management keeping him)
And obviously the goaltending/D have been mediocre to bad to abysmal over the years
All the problems compound and bounce off each other
How can you win if your 4 best players aren't even sniffing the jock of the other team's best players?
If they need so much help they shouldn't have tried to take every last dollar they could get.
In Toronto everything goes wrong:
Rielly is the last greedy/best guy, but he sucks the most (by far)
There were too many passengers, that's true, but we have too many passengers because the top guys collectively are overpaid by like 15+ million dollar
Oh and the top guys obviously don't perform, Nylander is a great example because people think of him as the "good one" from the others, he's definitely better offensively or at least equal, only problem is he is abysmal defensively/lazy and unwilling to get dirty
Management has allowed Shanahan to do this for basically 10 years now, again all parts of the problem (Shanahan's horrendous decisions, management keeping him)
And obviously the goaltending/D have been mediocre to bad to abysmal over the years
All the problems compound and bounce off each other
sampollock
Registered User
truth hurtsPlenty wrong as shown here:
How can you win if your 4 best players aren't even sniffing the jock of the other team's best players?
If they need so much help they shouldn't have tried to take every last dollar they could get.
In Toronto everything goes wrong:
Rielly is the last greedy/best guy, but he sucks the most (by far)
There were too many passengers, that's true, but we have too many passengers because the top guys collectively are overpaid by like 15+ million dollar
Oh and the top guys obviously don't perform, Nylander is a great example because people think of him as the "good one" from the others, he's definitely better offensively or at least equal, only problem is he is abysmal defensively/lazy and unwilling to get dirty
Management has allowed Shanahan to do this for basically 10 years now, again all parts of the problem (Shanahan's horrendous decisions, management keeping him)
And obviously the goaltending/D have been mediocre to bad to abysmal over the years
All the problems compound and bounce off each other
I am not exposed
Registered User
Plenty wrong as shown here:
How can you win if your 4 best players aren't even sniffing the jock of the other team's best players?
If they need so much help they shouldn't have tried to take every last dollar they could get.
In Toronto everything goes wrong:
Rielly is the last greedy/best guy, but he sucks the most (by far)
There were too many passengers, that's true, but we have too many passengers because the top guys collectively are overpaid by like 15+ million dollar
Oh and the top guys obviously don't perform, Nylander is a great example because people think of him as the "good one" from the others, he's definitely better offensively or at least equal, only problem is he is abysmal defensively/lazy and unwilling to get dirty
Management has allowed Shanahan to do this for basically 10 years now, again all parts of the problem (Shanahan's horrendous decisions, management keeping him)
And obviously the goaltending/D have been mediocre to bad to abysmal over the years
All the problems compound and bounce off each other
Doesn't this chart show Matthews and Marner as the top performing Leafs this series? And the larger issue is the depth players all languishing at the bottom.
Yep! But it's because so much money is spent on that Core Four that their depth isn't good enough. They need to have more talent and grit spread around their forward corp.
Plus, even if those four are up there, they still are far from the best on the OTHER team, which is also the problem. Marchand shouldn't be better than exceptionally talented guys like Matthews and Marner.
