There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[The Gr8 Dane]

Run it back!!!

 

[WarriorofTime]

They got to the Final 5, which is not nothing, but they also highly leveraged their future to still not be good enough.

 

[BLNY]

The only thing that disappears faster when it counts is Matthews' hairline.

That group simply has no starch. They find their way back in the second half of the first after a completely dismal start, get cheered off the ice, and respond in the second by imploding. As a group, their psyche is simply far too damaged to continue together. Walking away from Marner and Tavares is the easiest thing to do. They're UFAs. The hard thing will be internal conversations about whether or not it makes sense to continue with AM 34. He's not a leader.

 

[ranold26]

Keep the Core 4..... next year will be different!
/lolz

 

[Fatass]

The only thing that disappears faster when it counts is Matthews' hairline.

That group simply has no starch. They find their way back in the second half of the first after a completely dismal start, get cheered off the ice, and respond in the second by imploding. As a group, their psyche is simply far too damaged to continue together. Walking away from Marner and Tavares is the easiest thing to do. They're UFAs. The hard thing will be internal conversations about whether or not it makes sense to continue with AM 34. He's not a leader.

Without Marner setting him up and no Tavares taking the toughs, Matthews is going to struggle a lot to put up goals.

 

[Crosby2010]

Two horrible losses, both 6-1 at home. I did some checking, this game is tied for the worst Game 7 loss at home in NHL history. Detroit beat Phoenix in 2010 6-1 in Game 7 (who else is surprised the Coyotes had 107 points that year?). Pittsburgh beat Washington 6-2 in 2009. That might be the worst one because the Pens were up 5-0 halfway through the game. But either way, there was just no heart shown by the Leafs. Their 4th liners are the ones who got breakaways. Nothing from Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, etc. Woll wasn't great, Berube at the very least should have pulled him after the 3rd goal, if only to shake things up.

No one was hitting, there wasn't anyone mad or angry. That bugged me. So at the moment they are faced with a dilemma where they always have an elite team in the regular season that will get them to the playoffs, but constantly have a core set of players that fold in the playoffs. I think Nick Kypreos said it best last night (I think it was him) that all of their stars have the same demeanor. They are all passive, this is not something you see with teams that win. Look at Florida, their stars aren't shrinking violets, they are intense out there. Look at Marchand, one of the oldest players in the NHL looked brilliant last night. New uniform or not he still kills the Leafs.

I don't know if it is mental right now with the Leafs. It could be. If you lose Marner you lose 102 points, you lose a penalty killer, a great defensive winger, etc. That's a lot to replace and where do you replace it from? On the other hand you do have to ask how many chances you have to give this core? Tough decisions. Because without Marner the Leafs are a worse team in the regular season no doubt.

 

[General Fanager]

Yes, it is beautiful actually.

Maybe so, but maybe someone should explain to the team that Muskoka would be even more beautiful in late June holding a big silver cup.....

 

[General Fanager]

It's insane how they folded at home but won on the road from Games 5-7.

Mental midgets.

Its not even that Florida played that great, The Leafs just folded in both of those games. I just don't understand...

 

[David Suzuki]

Problem is marner wouldnt accept a team friendly deal.

they could and they did to use kyle dubas own words

 

[ranold26]

 

[sampollock]

This thread is hilarious there's nothing wrong with them good keep the core 5 together for the next 5 years and let's see if you can win a playoff series

 

[Legend123]

I'm pretty sure there's a lot wrong with those top 4 players especially after the contracts they demanded but God damn the leafs are truly lucky to have knies on the team. What a beast

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

the leafs have like, 7 players who are good. their depth is uber trash, and none of these guys are mcdavid/draisaitl. obviously they should rearrange their roster but blaming solely these guys is idiotic. their roster makeup is just poor. they missed their chance to build a good team with these guys, losing marner is gonna hurt but you cant pay him whatever hes gonna get and run back the same roster w two good lines and one decent d pairing. they need to go out and get some solid complimentary players. Because that bottom 6 is UGLY.

Two horrible losses, both 6-1 at home. I did some checking, this game is tied for the worst Game 7 loss at home in NHL history. Detroit beat Phoenix in 2010 6-1 in Game 7 (who else is surprised the Coyotes had 107 points that year?). Pittsburgh beat Washington 6-2 in 2009. That might be the worst one because the Pens were up 5-0 halfway through the game. But either way, there was just no heart shown by the Leafs. Their 4th liners are the ones who got breakaways. Nothing from Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, etc. Woll wasn't great, Berube at the very least should have pulled him after the 3rd goal, if only to shake things up.

No one was hitting, there wasn't anyone mad or angry. That bugged me. So at the moment they are faced with a dilemma where they always have an elite team in the regular season that will get them to the playoffs, but constantly have a core set of players that fold in the playoffs. I think Nick Kypreos said it best last night (I think it was him) that all of their stars have the same demeanor. They are all passive, this is not something you see with teams that win. Look at Florida, their stars aren't shrinking violets, they are intense out there. Look at Marchand, one of the oldest players in the NHL looked brilliant last night. New uniform or not he still kills the Leafs.

I don't know if it is mental right now with the Leafs. It could be. If you lose Marner you lose 102 points, you lose a penalty killer, a great defensive winger, etc. That's a lot to replace and where do you replace it from? On the other hand you do have to ask how many chances you have to give this core? Tough decisions. Because without Marner the Leafs are a worse team in the regular season no doubt.

the rangers beat the caps 5-0 in game 7 in 2013. Caps got shutout two games in a row to end the series after having 2-0 and 3-2 leads.

 

[Czechboy]

Is 1 goal in the last 4 games the pace Matthews was on in regular season? Seems like a massive dropoff to me..

 

[Mr Positive]

If the Leafs move on from any of these core players, teams will be stepping over themselves to add them.

I still agree with the OP. The mix is wrong. The players are great

Lots of Leaf fans are already calling it, and have been since game 5: whatever player leaves the team will win the cup. It's just part of the curse of the team

 

[NoelVilla]

There is something wrong with Tavares in the playoffs. Every year, so that decision is easy.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

Two horrible losses, both 6-1 at home. I did some checking, this game is tied for the worst Game 7 loss at home in NHL history. Detroit beat Phoenix in 2010 6-1 in Game 7 (who else is surprised the Coyotes had 107 points that year?). Pittsburgh beat Washington 6-2 in 2009. That might be the worst one because the Pens were up 5-0 halfway through the game. But either way, there was just no heart shown by the Leafs. Their 4th liners are the ones who got breakaways. Nothing from Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, etc. Woll wasn't great, Berube at the very least should have pulled him after the 3rd goal, if only to shake things up.

No one was hitting, there wasn't anyone mad or angry. That bugged me. So at the moment they are faced with a dilemma where they always have an elite team in the regular season that will get them to the playoffs, but constantly have a core set of players that fold in the playoffs. I think Nick Kypreos said it best last night (I think it was him) that all of their stars have the same demeanor. They are all passive, this is not something you see with teams that win. Look at Florida, their stars aren't shrinking violets, they are intense out there. Look at Marchand, one of the oldest players in the NHL looked brilliant last night. New uniform or not he still kills the Leafs.

I don't know if it is mental right now with the Leafs. It could be. If you lose Marner you lose 102 points, you lose a penalty killer, a great defensive winger, etc. That's a lot to replace and where do you replace it from? On the other hand you do have to ask how many chances you have to give this core? Tough decisions. Because without Marner the Leafs are a worse team in the regular season no doubt.

This should be crystal clear now for that management, after trying the same thing for 9 years. They should’ve broken them up after 4-5 years. But the Leafs are content making the playoffs, they don’t want or need to win

 

[EpochLink]

People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.

 

[blundluntman]

I still think the Tavares signing was just a horrible idea and a big part of why this team hasn't done much. Way too top heavy forward wise and not enough depth.

Shut down the top line and everything falls apart; overplay the top line and they're out of gas by the time the series gets past 4 or 5 games. It'd be different if the top guys were McDavid and Drai, but that almost never happens.

Ideally, you'd have that wasted cap space on Tavares invested in a top 2 D/2nd Line C and a depth forward d-man, and you'd have traded Marner for some good pieces to compliment Matthews, Reilly & Nylander. I guess better late than never as that'll sorta be the plan this off-season but yeah.

 

[NVious]

If the Leafs move on from any of these core players, teams will be stepping over themselves to add them.

I still agree with the OP. The mix is wrong. The players are great

Lots of Leaf fans are already calling it, and have been since game 5: whatever player leaves the team will win the cup. It's just part of the curse of the team

There's nothing wrong with them like there's nothing wrong with Thornton/Marleau.

If you just added those guys at no cost to the Pens/Hawks/Kings, they'd be cup winners too.

Unfortunately we live in a salary cap era and Matthews/Marner/Tavares drop 33-50% in terms of season to playoffs.

They are not Dawgs.
They are not him.
They are bus riders not a driver.

You can't have that at the highest cap hit in the league. Nylander is a bit better, not much though as he has his own defensive lapses and no shows, but not quite as overall miserable as the other 3 (not saying much)

 

[RorschachWJK]

Thank you Hockey News, thank you! Such a wonderful gift there, a gift that keeps on giving for all eternity.

 

[Two4Fighting]

Its not even that Florida played that great, The Leafs just folded in both of those games. I just don't understand...

I think you should watch the game with your own eyes. We got shutout on game 6 and here is the question, Did the Panthers folded in game 6 when Toronto did not even played great?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

If the Leafs move on from any of these core players, teams will be stepping over themselves to add them.

Well, the teams without serious Cup objectives anyway.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

the leafs have like, 7 players who are good. their depth is uber trash, and none of these guys are mcdavid/draisaitl. obviously they should rearrange their roster but blaming solely these guys is idiotic. their roster makeup is just poor. they missed their chance to build a good team with these guys, losing marner is gonna hurt but you cant pay him whatever hes gonna get and run back the same roster w two good lines and one decent d pairing. they need to go out and get some solid complimentary players. Because that bottom 6 is UGLY.

We've heard this every single time the Leafs choke. "The depth is the issue,"

1-It's not. The depth is the only ones that scored in games 5 and 7. The depth is the only ones that showed any sort of heart or hustle.

2-When you commit to the kind of money the Leafs committed to the core four, you're going to have to make do with a couple of "duds" in the bottom six. If they want players on their third and fourth lines who produce regularly, then they can't pay four no-shows what they're paying in the top six.

Bottom line is stars are paid to produce when it matters. The core four did nothing of the sort. So saying it's not all their fault and it's the depth that needs fixing isn't living in reality.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

The guys in here blaming the depth is laughable. The problem is the core 4, not Max Pacioretty.

These guys are just way too soft. That's all there is to it. Look at the guys who have been top players on cup winning teams lately. Tkachuk, Barkov, Stone, MacKinnon, Kucherov. You think any of those guys are soft players?

Darcy Tucker said that you have to be a little crazy to play in Toronto. It's one of the biggest fan bases and it's a franchise that has not even come close to the cup in almost 60 years. There's way more pressure playing on that team than any other. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares are not strong enough mentally to win in that market.

The only way Toronto will ever win a cup is if they do what the Rangers did with bringing in Messier. Bring in a veteran HOF level player who's already won a ton and knows how to block out noise and build around him. Problem is players like that are rarely available.